How To Teach/get A Dog To Reduce It's Level Of Arousal

[OSoSwift]

A friend of mine has a two year old working line GSD.

She has been a bit of a hard slog but is now maturing into a lovely girl.

There is one thing that still needs a little work.

Today after turning up at Dog training another dog got into her face snapped at her, she retalliated as in went to snap but was removed from the situation.

Later in the class a dog that was supposed to be doing some off lead work ran around a little and although she didn't go near this GSD the GSD ended up in a very high level of arousal and she was trying to leap around and would not listen as she was too highly aroused

I have suggested that if she get highly aroused that she removes her from the class situation until the point she aknowledges that the dogs are there but is not so wound up she won't react to treats toys etc. Stand quietly with her until she is calm, reward calm and the move closer to the dogs, but not until she get too highly aroused again, so she will still take treats etc.

I see her as a fairly typical young working line GSD that is needing to learn how to be able to get past a dog amping her up and learning how to calm herself down. When she is leaping around she is not barking and growling she is just trying to leap around like an idiot!

Please help me out with suggestions and wether or not I am on the right track.

[sas]

I don't want to sound cliche' but I'd be interested in knowing how the Handler was feeling, could she have been feeling some anxiety after the initial problem?

I'm not sure what method of training the handler uses, I like Click to Calm for those kinds of situations HOWEVER have to be careful in obedience dogs because sometimes the method you use to correct that kind of behaviour can stuff up their drive for their obedience work.

Can they have a session with a good trainer/behaviourist just to get them on the right track?

[OSoSwift]

I am seeing her tomorrow so will double check.

She can get a bit anxious herself so that is why I was thinking some quiet calm down time would be good for both of them.

She uses positive reinforcement with a marker word instead of a clicker. I will look at clcik for calm.

The problem being when the dog gets her arousal up she is not interested in any of them rewards that have been tried so far. We are looking for more.

There are no behaviouralists or trainers down here and the closest I am aware of is 750kms away. I am thinking it may de her some good to have a phone chat with someone though.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I've used blocking ie I get between my dog and the source of her excitement with my back to it and facing her, and block her view so she has to look at me. And I reward that.

Stopped her chasing horses, cats, model cars, airplanes etc. I usually add "leave it" when I get her attention. Still working on leaving it possums. Trouble with them is I want to chase them too. I'm almost as bad with the cats but I worry more that they will inflict damage if dog should corner one. Which, when I think about it, isn't entirely sensible. Possums can do a lot of damage too.

Going away from the exciting thing and only returning when calm helps - which might mean approach and retreat and approach and retreat repeat...

Sometimes I will draw her attention to a cat "Look" and then tell her to "leave it" and reward. Ie just because it's exciting doesn't mean she can chase it.

[Kavik]

I would also look into Click to Calm. I found with this method that Zoe also became more responsive and became more interested in focus and the rewards in the face of arousal when previously she would not focus for rewards when faced with the same situation.

Also I would look at avoiding situations that are going to cause such high arousal. So until they are able to get her attention when a dog is excited nearby, I would certainly avoid situations where dogs are likely to get in her face or snap at her. That may mean giving her more space from other dogs at obedience, not hanging around the gates talking to people at obedience etc, not going to dog parks. Otherwise you are setting the dog up to fail.

I wouldn't try to go too fast don't try to progress to being around highly exciteable dogs in only a few sessions, it takes time.

[OSoSwift]

Thank you all I will go through this with her. She gives people a lot of space. Unfortunately some people are stupid and get too close. Now that she tels them to back off an mean it the situation is improving.

Some people seem to think all dogs should get along and enjoy playing with each other. Unfortunately at times she has had to resort to being rude to get them to listen but it is happening. I will definately look up click to calm and get her started on that.

[Aidan]

The problem being when the dog gets her arousal up she is not interested in any of them rewards that have been tried so far. We are looking for more.

Handy if you can find something but I always just pull them right out of the situation if that happens. Using a click to calm (or Control Unleashed) sort of protocol you should be able to get more and more attention in ever increasingly difficult situations.

It would be good to get someone to observe this dog, you might find that you can work with the arousal, channel it into a prey reward but the handler would need to be skilled in training this way and the dog must be under good control. It's something to work towards (play tug games under control, for a start), but not something I would just throw in there without guidance.

One thing is for sure, you need to give GSDs guidance on what to do in this sort of situation. Their instinctive response to things they are unsure of is usually to bark at it, or lunge at it (if on leash).

[perfect partners]

A friend of mine has a two year old working line GSD.

She has been a bit of a hard slog but is now maturing into a lovely girl.

There is one thing that still needs a little work.

Today after turning up at Dog training another dog got into her face snapped at her, she retalliated as in went to snap but was removed from the situation.

Later in the class a dog that was supposed to be doing some off lead work ran around a little and although she didn't go near this GSD the GSD ended up in a very high level of arousal and she was trying to leap around and would not listen as she was too highly aroused

I have suggested that if she get highly aroused that she removes her from the class situation until the point she aknowledges that the dogs are there but is not so wound up she won't react to treats toys etc. Stand quietly with her until she is calm, reward calm and the move closer to the dogs, but not until she get too highly aroused again, so she will still take treats etc.

I see her as a fairly typical young working line GSD that is needing to learn how to be able to get past a dog amping her up and learning how to calm herself down. When she is leaping around she is not barking and growling she is just trying to leap around like an idiot!

Please help me out with suggestions and wether or not I am on the right track.

Have a look at Steve Courtney's K9Pro website and Leerburg website. Both have excellent info.

[Nekhbet]

has she been using corrections? Why not settle the dog instead of wait it out?

[OSoSwift]

She is very well under control and can work very very well. It just seems that when she gets very aroused she stops thinking apart from the arousal and anything that has/is causing it.

She has tried corrections and will make her drop and hold her leash short so she cannot leap around ( to the best of her ability!). She has been known to sit on her in the past when she was trying to do back flips! Usually getting her to drop and holding her leash short helps as does growling at her if and when she tries to get up. But not always.

I do think it is highly likely that if there was someone around who was knowledgable with working in drive was around, then it is quite likely that her arousal could be channeled. I have no experience with working in drive at all.

Nek the issue is trying to get her to settle and the best way of making it happen. She finds she feeds her high arousal by trying to leap around and therefore it is very hard to calm her down. I was wondering if taking her away from the source of the arousal until she could respond to her owner was the way to go, then work at getting her closer again.

She is a very smart girl and when switched on to her owner can do some lovely work. She is good around the house etc, but energetic as you would imagine. She gets two walks a day and obedience training and now is getting agility training as well. She is well catered for in exercise requirements, socialisation and using her brain.

She will guard and will react if dogs are aggressive towards her, but is by no means a problem. Her owner has been very careful with her socialisation and training from day one.

[OSoSwift]

A friend of mine has a two year old working line GSD.

She has been a bit of a hard slog but is now maturing into a lovely girl.

There is one thing that still needs a little work.

Today after turning up at Dog training another dog got into her face snapped at her, she retalliated as in went to snap but was removed from the situation.

Later in the class a dog that was supposed to be doing some off lead work ran around a little and although she didn't go near this GSD the GSD ended up in a very high level of arousal and she was trying to leap around and would not listen as she was too highly aroused

I have suggested that if she get highly aroused that she removes her from the class situation until the point she aknowledges that the dogs are there but is not so wound up she won't react to treats toys etc. Stand quietly with her until she is calm, reward calm and the move closer to the dogs, but not until she get too highly aroused again, so she will still take treats etc.

I see her as a fairly typical young working line GSD that is needing to learn how to be able to get past a dog amping her up and learning how to calm herself down. When she is leaping around she is not barking and growling she is just trying to leap around like an idiot!

Please help me out with suggestions and wether or not I am on the right track.

Have a look at Steve Courtney's K9Pro website and Leerburg website. Both have excellent info.

Thank you I will pass those on

[OSoSwift]

The problem being when the dog gets her arousal up she is not interested in any of them rewards that have been tried so far. We are looking for more.

Handy if you can find something but I always just pull them right out of the situation if that happens. Using a click to calm (or Control Unleashed) sort of protocol you should be able to get more and more attention in ever increasingly difficult situations.

It would be good to get someone to observe this dog, you might find that you can work with the arousal, channel it into a prey reward but the handler would need to be skilled in training this way and the dog must be under good control. It's something to work towards (play tug games under control, for a start), but not something I would just throw in there without guidance.

One thing is for sure, you need to give GSDs guidance on what to do in this sort of situation. Their instinctive response to things they are unsure of is usually to bark at it, or lunge at it (if on leash).

Yes that is what she seems to do although she isn't particularly a lunger as such but her leaping around is towards the source of entertainment.

I am going to pass on the clicker for calm info.

[Aidan3]

She has tried corrections and will make her drop and hold her leash short so she cannot leap around ( to the best of her ability!). She has been known to sit on her in the past when she was trying to do back flips! Usually getting her to drop and holding her leash short helps as does growling at her if and when she tries to get up. But not always.

I dare say this sort of thing could be contributing to the problem. Nekhbet would be better placed to offer advice on how to correct appropriately, but it would need to timed well (earlier rather than later), sufficient to knock her out of drive, and you would want to see an immediate reduction in future unwanted behaviour. Restraint will usually not achieve this, and growling can be misunderstood.

I would suggest "Control Unleashed" as a good program (but Click to Calm is well worth the read). The "Look at That" game (from CU), done properly, can be extremely effective in this sort of situation. A clicker is essential, you need precision but most people pick it up pretty quickly.

[OSoSwift]

Thank you Aidan,

I will track that down for her as well.

I am thinking her corrections are too late and the dog is too into her fase of arousal for it to work, that is why I was thinking ignoring it taking her away until she can think and working on her focus then working her up to go back is possibly the best way to go for this person. She doesn't normally use a clicker but is open to the idea which I have suggested.

[Nekhbet]

If she has had to sit on the dog the corrective aid is not suitable. Are pinch collars ok in WA? That will probably be the most useful equipment for this dog especially if your friend is not good with check chain corrections.

as soon as the dog starts to get excited, correct, do a 180 turn and sit the dog in the heel position. If the dog tries to look around or gets agitated correct again and take a few steps foreward to engage the dog in an obedience focus it has learned. If the dog will not comply correct again and take another few steps away from the other dogs. If the dog does settle, praise and turn around to face the other dogs again. You let the dogs behaviour dictate your proximity.

The trick to stop this is to correct as soon as the dog starts the whining or really intense staring. Once the dog has snowballed into a tantrum there is no stopping it, you just have to drag it away and wait for it to settle. What you want to teach the dog is that getting excited is not going to happen. If your friend has a toy or high value reward offer it when the dog is calm, I dont bother saying anything to dogs that act up you just add fuel to the fire. If the dog will NOT look away from the object of anxiety I too give a correction then turn it around. Again I dont bother verbally chastising the dog as I want it to focus on me - would you focus on something that growls at you? If the dog is not aggressive I dont mind it looking at what is going on - it is only natural and we dont want avoidance. But we simply want to teach the dog 'ok, the other dogs exist but you shouldnt be interested in the because I'm a heck of a lot better' with the added bonus of being corrected for acting like a twit.

when it comes to anxiety you ALWAYS correct when it starts. Anything after that is just damage control and teaches the dog very little. If she has questions she can email me [email protected]

[corvus]

I love the Look At That game. It is surprising how fast it can make a difference.

Sometimes when Erik is all worked up and barking a massage helps him come down again. He only lets me do it because he's been conditioned to accept it, but he does actually come looking for it if he's worked up about something, particularly if he's reacting to a sound rather than something he can see. I put my hands down and he'll come and walk under them, then he turns around and comes back for a longer touch, and pretty soon he is under control and calm again. I am totally disbelieving of how effective massage has been in managing his arousal, but the difference in him is undeniable.

It also helped to do self control exercises, like getting him riled, then quickly calming him back down again. He is pretty quick at it. Considering he used to be wired for hours after getting aroused, it's hard to believe he can settle in under a minute, now.

I would still go for the LAT game in this case because it's a very specific stimulus, but I have been wondering lately if getting a dog used to massage and using a classically conditioned "calm down" signal is useful in general when it comes to managing a dog's arousal level. It seems to be the case for Erik, but he's just one dog, and he has been maturing as we went along, so it's hard to say how much is massage and how much is maturation.