Sit Or Stand First?

[parrotpea]

I was talking to my local kennel club secretary today about training the pup I am getting in December, and she recommended teaching stand before sit.

Is this what you would do for a show dog? And are regular obedience classes going to do sit first? It seems that once the sit command is ingrained it is hard to change(have been experimenting with my 2 older dogs who have never learned stand before - although one of them is getting the hang of it).

Mods pls move this if it would be better in showing section.

[The Spotted Devil]

I chose to teach stand for the show ring first and did very little formal obedience in the first 9 months. I think dogs are very clever at discriminating but I teach one discipline at a time initially to help us both - now we can switch from show to obedience to agility quite easily - different collars and leads (or lack thereof) and cues help too.

[sas]

I was talking to my local kennel club secretary today about training the pup I am getting in December, and she recommended teaching stand before sit.

Is this what you would do for a show dog? And are regular obedience classes going to do sit first? It seems that once the sit command is ingrained it is hard to change(have been experimenting with my 2 older dogs who have never learned stand before - although one of them is getting the hang of it).

Mods pls move this if it would be better in showing section.

I think alot of people reccomend to teach a show dog Stand first as usually the first command you train becomes the default behaviour for the dog and you don't want the dog sitting in the ring so teach stand and once they understand stand fully you can teach sit and when sit is appropriate but you know what in the end it'd not a big deal if a young dog sits in the ring, you just get them back into position.

[Sayreovi]

I taught sit first and then stand.My puppy is going to be more of an obedience dog than a show dog so I do want an automatic/default sit but only when heeling. Her dad automatically sits whenever I stop walking regardless of where in proximity he is too me, except when he is in the show ring so it can be taught. She is a very quick learner so I didn't think she would have that hard of a time learning a new command and really you will have at least 4 weeks to teach her/him.

I agree with Sas, not the end of the world if your dog sits in the ring, especially a puppy, just lure them back into a stand. Usually puppies are too excited to sit down anyway

Edited October 30, 2010 by tollersowned

[TerraNik]

Our show dogs are taught sit, drop and stand together. We've never had a problem with them sitting in the ring even though they are all obedience dogs and have a default sit. Dogs are smart - your body language in the show ring is very different to when doing obedience.

[bedazzledx2]

My boy was a show dog for his first year (and a bit more) but had not been taught to sit until I got him at around 9 months. For a long time his default position was stand and look pretty! Lots of training and trials under the belt later and its not an issue but if I have another dog that was destined for both showing and obedience I think I would train both early. Once the position is on cue you shouldn't have a problem.

[Kavik]

I would either teach stand and sit at the same time or stand first. I have seen some dogs that are highly rewarded for sit and not taught stand til later have a real problem with it and will always try to sit.

[parrotpea]

Thanks very much for the advice

I chose to teach stand for the show ring first and did very little formal obedience in the first 9 months. I think dogs are very clever at discriminating but I teach one discipline at a time initially to help us both - now we can switch from show to obedience to agility quite easily - different collars and leads (or lack thereof) and cues help too.

Which different collars do you use to indicate which you are doing?

[WreckitWhippet]

I was talking to my local kennel club secretary today about training the pup I am getting in December, and she recommended teaching stand before sit.

Is this what you would do for a show dog? And are regular obedience classes going to do sit first? It seems that once the sit command is ingrained it is hard to change(have been experimenting with my 2 older dogs who have never learned stand before - although one of them is getting the hang of it).

Mods pls move this if it would be better in showing section.

As a new comer to the ring, I wouldn't teach sit at all.

Unless you are seriously thinking about doing obedience in the future, there's no need to teach a pup to sit. When you are in the obedience class just replace the sits with stand or drop.

[Simply Grand]

I would either teach stand and sit at the same time or stand first. I have seen some dogs that are highly rewarded for sit and not taught stand til later have a real problem with it and will always try to sit.

Totally agree! I'm having trouble teaching my 16 month old to stand now (for obedience) as I didn't teach him when he was a puppy. I focused on sit from the first day I had him home, plus taught drop and other things, and now he just doesn't "get" stand, he doesn't seem to think he's actually doing anything by standing, he offers everything else he knows instead to try and figure out what I want

We're working on it, and will get it, but with the next pup, I'll definitely teach sit and stand at the same time.

ETA - in my obedience classes, sit, stand and drop have all been practiced pretty equally from the beginning so learning sit wasn't at the expense of learning stand. Someone we still managed to bluff our way through the first few levels without a good stand at all!

Edited October 31, 2010 by Saxonpup

[whiskedaway]

My eight month old is being obedience trained and she has an automatic sit. We've been doing some show handler training (for me, not for her) and at first she had a little trouble getting it right. Now that we have to do it for obedience, she's starting to get a lot better, though I want it solid. If I had a show dog, I'd train the other way around - get the stand solid and then introduce the sit.

[Nevafollo]

I always do stand first. One of my pointers only learnt to sit at 18 months, I dont do formal obedience so have no reason to really teach it. I am copnsidering doing some obedience later on but it will never be the focus so always stand first!

[Kalevi]

I suggest teaching stand first every time to folks that are showing.

I've done it both ways but with the stand first I think you get more consistant results in the ring (especially from younger dogs). My boy learn't very quickly to self stack also which is brilliant :-)

[poodlefan]

I taught both. Never had an issue with sitting in the ring.

[The Spotted Devil]

Thanks very much for the advice

I chose to teach stand for the show ring first and did very little formal obedience in the first 9 months. I think dogs are very clever at discriminating but I teach one discipline at a time initially to help us both - now we can switch from show to obedience to agility quite easily - different collars and leads (or lack thereof) and cues help too.

Which different collars do you use to indicate which you are doing?

Show limited slip lead for showing, standard web martingale for obedience and he runs 'naked' for agility. There's heaps of other cues as well...what you wear, how you warm up, equipment in the ring etc. Zig has a fine automatic sit in competition obedience but never sits in the show ring - not that I've shown much of late :D

Have fun!

[OSoSwift]

How I move, the equipment used etc are all cues to the dog that we are doing showing or obedience.

I don't remember ever having my dog sit in the ring, but if you have taught both you jsut step them forward and ask for a stand.

I expect that my dog is smart enough to do both and well and to know the difference.

I think people that never teach their show dog not to sit incase they sit in the ring are not giving their dogs enough credit.

Out of interest their is one very well known and very successful exhibitor over here who when waiting on a hot/sunny day sits her dog then moves so she is shade for the dog, when it is required the dog is set up.

Edited November 1, 2010 by OSoSwift