Goat Racing

[KatrinaM]

I found the link, I just couldnt see it. Compare this

http://animal-lib.org.au/campaigns/280-wild-goat-racing.html

to this

http://www.news-mail.com.au/story/2009/02/...s-on-the-cards/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/maleny_steve/...in/photostream/

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/05/03/2888563.htm

http://www.lawyersweekly.com.au/blogs/top_...oat-racing.aspx

Very different things!

[raz]

Very different things!

Yep. It was the first one. A comment was also made about intoxicated adults so you can imagine kids with injuries and collapsed feral goats with irresponsible drunk adults having a good laugh. It was very disturbing.

[asal]

totally unacceptable doing that to wild ones.

the trained goats are amazing.

n if u want to win a sannan or anglo nubian wether is the way to go. the size these guys can grow to is astounding

[centitout]

totally unacceptable doing that to wild ones.

the trained goats are amazing.

n if u want to win a sannan or anglo nubian wether is the way to go. the size these guys can grow to is astounding

my uncle used to breed anglo nubiaans,saanens and toggenburgs-i remember riding around on the quiet ones.I have also seen goats and a very large ox trained to saddle/harness and that is the same as a pony in harness.But wild goats being treated like that is totally different-i have a huge soft spot for goats and that treatment was totally inhumane.

[PossumCorner]

'''' Do you think this could just be a story thats been beaten up to be whole lot more than it is for the benifit of animal rights groups? ....

No, there is no need for a beat-up, the facts have long stood for themselves. The animal rights groups are often on the loony side of rent-a-crowd, but in this case if that's the group it took to give this wider publicity, then good on them and they have their place.

No-one wants to ban goat racing, and done well as in the Barcaldine example it is great. But the yob beer-swilling mentality that supports it in Walgett and Lightning Ridge is a million miles removed from caring about animal welfare, training, heritage, any of the good aspects. It is just an excuse for brutality and supported by the Council for the tourist dollar.

A goat does not have to be raced to be driven: goat showing in harness has a niche overseas and is done at a high standard of training, presentation. This link to the UK goat harness society has some good images of how it can be done: click on 'find out more' and the gallery:

http://www.harnessgoats.co.uk/index.html - there is also a good American group with a good attitude promoting better practice:

http://www.workinggoats.com/

[KatrinaM]

Possum Corner,

We kept goats for meat as kids, a few we broke to harness, what else do you do when your a kid and you get to play with such a trainable animal? We never raced though, we never had enough parental interest or a good enough goat to be competitive.

Through the way this has been promoted by animal rights groups and the media all goat racing is underfire and is considered the same. Have a look at the comments left on Mr De Groots article. He is the sponsor of the Barcy event.

http://www.lawyersweekly.com.au/blogs/top_...oat-racing.aspx

Those who go out of there way to promote the sport properly, who only desire for animals to be kept, raced and trained ethically are being lumped in one and the same by the public. The story is being beaten up and made to be a whole lot more than it is - an isolated incedence in an otherwise legitimate pastime. No different to breeding dogs I guess. Once breeders were proud of what they did and were considered experts in their field, now every breeder is considered a hoarder, animal abuser and puppy farmer.

[PossumCorner]

.... - an isolated incedence in an otherwise legitimate pastime. ....

Sadly wrong, and that's where people are missing the point, and the actual heritage aspect, and turning "heritage" into something it is not. Barcaldine is the exception (because deGroot & Co. are doing things properly). Elsewhere today the norm is unacceptable cruelty, and in no way reflects any methods of the use of goats in the past.

Watching the old film clips on this link, is a look at the real heritage value. There is no bashing into submission, there is no harnessing-up of wild animals and them running into barriers wild and terrified. Just dozens of young and old people with very useful animals, trained and under control. Not just Queensland, some of the earliest records of goats harnessed or ridden are from Victoria and NSW.

http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2008/s2704298.htm

When goats were used like this as part of everyday life, there were no feral goats as there are today, so a comparison does not exist. Claiming they are keeping up tradition is bullshit when they are leaving out the element that goats were kept closer to home and accustomed to people, and used in daily life, not just for one day a year. As you said they are trainable animals. Anyone who wants to train a goat can do so, it's not rocket science or skilled horsemanship, any Dolers who can teach a dog to lead could train a goat. And that is what the rednecks are not doing. They are simply taking unhandled wild animals and putting them through hell for crude entertainment (and that's only a lead-up to their next trip, one-way to the slaughterhouse and more terror).

I'm not on a soapbox about this, but I don't like to see the unpleasant reality swept under the carpet as a "beat up". And I don't think that is your wish either KM.

[Jed]

I don't think it is a beat up. I've seen stuff like this. Far too often. And I don't think it is an isolated incidence. Just one of the few filmed.

It has nothing to do with "tradition". It's about ignorant people with no feelings for any type of animal at all - unless it is making money for them.

[KatrinaM]

I am not defending animal cruelty at all, in my mind harnessing feral billies to a cart and expecting them to run is stupid, cruel and bizarre and I would like to think that it would be stopped. I cannot for a second see what this kind of crap has to do with anything to do with historical interest, entertainment or anything else. I am disappointed that the baby has been thrown out with the bath water - mud has stuck to the people doing the right thing and those that are doing the wrong thing, as always dont give a toss. The story has been pointed at goat racing and no seperation has been made by either the media or Animal Rights groups between the good and bad. It has been beat up to let people believe that anyone who puts a goat in harness is an animal abuser.

My perspective is way different - the only goat racing I have ever witnessed has been trained animals throughout central and central western Queensland, and this was well before De Groot and Co were involved at Barcaldine. There are plenty of other places that events are still run, Roma has a big annual event, The Caves are trying to revive interest. To me thats what the sport is - people working with animals - not what is being portrayed. That is not a sport.

It doesnt matter what past time people participate in with animals - there are plenty who care and are in it for the right reasons and a handful of people who just dont care, who are involved for money or their ego and wont lose sleep if they ruin things for others.

Edited November 1, 2010 by KatrinaM

[Steve]

Yeah I havent seen a goat race for about 20 years and that was down the main street of Lightning Ridge when I lived up there.

Back then the goats were trained and people worked with them for weeks to get them ready for the run which lasted about a minute with only adult drivers.

I couldnt see the entertainment value back then and felt pretty disappointed after all the hype about the goat races that went on for weeks.

Big deal goats running down the street for just one race but if it's changed and what was on that video is for real they need a hell of a good kick and if they cant take it back to a point where its done humanely it should be shut down.

[Moselle]

I found a video of the event

A farmer loads up a truck with feral goats who have no handling at all, attaches them to carts and then they hope for the best. THose animals must be terrified out of their brains

Saw the story and was disgusted. The story is exactly as Nekhbet described, it was indeed a case of feral goats being treated like a sack of potatoes, the poor animals...

[PossumCorner]

We've probably said all we can - it is in the hands of the organisers now, if they wish to continue, to talk to one another and set up a code of ethics and stick to it. The whole sorry mess can be rescued, it certainly is not too late, if they have the good-will to do it.

For a change of pace, here are a couple of US vids, team and single. Notice they use proper harness with traces, not rubbish buckled to the shafts.

and one for the clicker trainers, the dog dancers and the agility people:

[dogbesotted]

People in some of those areas do not even recognize that feral goats feel pain, or have feelings of panic or fear at all. It is 99% sure that after the "goat races" the goats will be loaded on a ship headed for the middle east for Halal slaugher, so why should they receive humane treatment when they are for the chop anyhow? And their treatment will probably be worse than that shown on the TV program.

Nothing will change until feral goats are recognized as sentient beings. The treatment they receive prior to shipment to the middle east, while they are being trapped and travelled in Australia is inhumane in the extreme and a complete disgrace to animal husbandry in this country. Right up there with shooting buffalo and brumbies from planes.

There are goat races where the goats are broken to harness, and these are no difference to shetland, or trotters raciing. And feral goats can figure well in these, and make satisfactory pets. These goats are not mistreated. Plenty of people in the west keep goats as pets or for milk or meat - or both, with humane treatment.""

i could not agree more.. i watched the program with tears in my eyes.. i have goats and to see those poor feral boys treated with such cruelty.. when a goat lies down like that it is pure terror...i cannot iumagine how those people have been allowed to get away with this for so long..... as for the parents allowing their children to partiucipate in such a barbaric , cruel and dangerous activity.. shame shame shame!!!!

Helen

[Tempus Fugit]

..... as for the parents allowing their children to partiucipate in such a barbaric , cruel and dangerous activity.. shame shame shame!!!!

Helen

Same sort of parents that allow their kids to particicipate in calf riding at rodeos.

[Everythings Shiny]

Tempus Fugit - Most of those kids want to do that. Hell I used to do that. Most of the kids on those calves are country kids wanting to be professional bull riders when they grow up. At least kids at rodeo events are made to wear helmets with the cage thingy on the front and have professional rodeo clowns there to help them and protect them.

[*Bones*]

The calf is not fettered, and the object is to get rid of the rider. Also, the calves have had some handling, although probably not ridden.

The goats are strapped up so they cannot escape. The object is for the goat, frightened out of its wits to want to run away (the flee reflex - goats never fight humans), and indeed they do run away - or lie down in sheer abject terror.

Goats are beautifully people friendly, and are marvellous for clearing overgrown land and giving a lot of milk,which is healthier than cows' milk, They are easy to handle, and gentle.

The feral goats have special wool as an undercoat, yet they are shot, starved and mistreated and used for ridiculously cruel "sport"

[hoffpig]

Watched the program and instantly fired off emails of protest to town's council, tourism and the rest. Shattering to behold.

[mac'ella]

Do you think this could just be a story thats been beaten up to be whole lot more than it is for the benifit of animal rights groups?

That's always a possibility and it was on one of the crappy current affairs shows but it was pretty distressing to watch and unmistakable.

Today tonight also ran a story saying that the State Emergency Service were one of the organisers which is incorrect (only involved in blocking off streets and errecting safety barriers for council) so they dont always get the facts right.

But I still disagree with the races as its not a safe or natural environment and even if trained they wouldn't be used to all the noise in the actual race,so would panick.

[KatrinaM]

and even if trained they wouldn't be used to all the noise in the actual race,so would panick.

Ummmm.......that is the point of training.

[Trisven13]

Yeah I havent seen a goat race for about 20 years and that was down the main street of Lightning Ridge when I lived up there.

Back then the goats were trained and people worked with them for weeks to get them ready for the run which lasted about a minute with only adult drivers.

I couldnt see the entertainment value back then and felt pretty disappointed after all the hype about the goat races that went on for weeks.

Big deal goats running down the street for just one race but if it's changed and what was on that video is for real they need a hell of a good kick and if they cant take it back to a point where its done humanely it should be shut down.

Yeah that is what I saw at the goat races 20 plus years ago.