Accredited Breeders Scheme

[Jed]

Apparently following the lead of the UK, state canine controls have brought in the Accredited Breeders' Scheme.

This scheme in the UK has been bagged by breeders, who say is it simply a money raisiing/pr exercise and does not distinguish between breeders.

I hoped the scheme in Aus would be different. But no, I notice that our registered puppy farmers are in on the act. Their websites often show sheds and runs, extremely ordinary dogs, prefixes no one has ever heard of, parroted information cut and pasted from club websites worldwide, and their ABN yet they are accredited breeders.

Oh my Lord, how on earth are buyers supposed to find a decent breeder with this rot going on? Are the CCs simply rubber stamping anyone who pays the fee?

[karly101]

I was reading about one scheme where the puppy farmers pay a fee, then fill out a self auditing form (!!) to become a fully accredited member, which they then receive a nice badge to put on their website, what a joke. And one of my friends swears (from Pets Paradise) that none of their puppies are from puppy farms but all registered breeders (registered with whom???), but in arguments with her she sees nothing wrong with the concept of mass breeding of puppies. It's all about consumer fraud, no wonder the public are so confused.

[Jed]

It'a disgraceful that the ANKC would be a party to this.

[silentchild]

Slightly OT but pertaining to this topic, I am your average "confused member of the public", so I have to ask, how do you distinguish between an real, proper, accredited breeder and one who fakes it? Who should the breeder be registered with? The average Joe Blow wouldn't have a clue about prefixes and things like that, so apart from actually visiting these farms and seeing the dogs, just by looking at websites it would be easy to deceive normal people who don't know much about breeders into thinking they are buying from a proper, registered breeder.

As someone who is not knowledgeable about breeding, I have a hard time picking out who are the real breeders and who are the byb and puppy farms when browsing websites as they all claim to be "registered" with impressive looking badges and prefixes.

I do believe education is key here, so average people who are interested in buying a dog can be taught how to easily distinguish between real breeders and tidy puppy farms that put on a front.

[Gayle.]

You can't distinguish. Most people would be very hard pressed to tell the difference between a backyard breeder, puppy farmer and ANKC registered breeder. The lines are very blurry a lot of the time.....some backyarders do a great job of raising and socialising their pups, some puppy farmers are registered with the ANKC and have a prefix, some ANKC breeders churn out lots of litters a year with the sole intention of selling all the pups.

There's also the politics of the dog world to deal with...ask one person, they'll praise a breeder up, ask someone else and they'll have nothing good to say about the same breeder.

So who knows?

[asal]

You can't distinguish. Most people would be very hard pressed to tell the difference between a backyard breeder, puppy farmer and ANKC registered breeder. The lines are very blurry a lot of the time.....some backyarders do a great job of raising and socialising their pups, some puppy farmers are registered with the ANKC and have a prefix, some ANKC breeders churn out lots of litters a year with the sole intention of selling all the pups.

There's also the politics of the dog world to deal with...ask one person, they'll praise a breeder up, ask someone else and they'll have nothing good to say about the same breeder.

So who knows?

exactly and it aint going to get any better.

the only people who are not tarred and feathered by someone have been either extremely lucky or no ones decided they dont like em yet.

as for the cc's doing the "accredition" thing. i rang and asked why is this being done. to be told after the "pedigree dogs exposed" fallout and this being done in the uk and recommendations that an accreditation schem be implemented that the canine councils "have to be seen to be doing something" or if they do not show they are making an effort then the rspca and governement will legislate and take all rights away from the canine councils or words to that effect.

bit like showing the horse the whip n if it doesnt move then it gets it, doesnt it?

so now we have two classes of membership. member and probably puppy farmer,, or toe the line and get "accredited" more income at lease and they seem to need it considering all the money being wasted in the past and now this double posting over the couchman issue .. again wasted money to my mind.

soo the guy is now to be persecuted because he supplies catalogues for dog shows?

n either did it out of the goodness of his heart and absorbed all costs or is a crim?

get real

well from the letter i read in the last mail said out and paid for by the dogs nsw, more money wasted to my mind anyway.

hes now no longer going to serve on the show council... so who loses out. not him more time for his own use instead of helping the dog world.

so who really loses out folks?

n yet the directors of the rscpa are solicitors that are raking in hundreds of thousands per year in legal fees closer to one million, nearly 300,000 alone in the ruth downey case. n someone is taking this guy to task for the costs of paper and printing???????

yep, anyone with a dog that becomes a member of a canine body, u dont have to be mad but sure has to help.

[shortstep]

Is the scheme going to have different rules and standards in each state?

Read the QLD scheme and the NSW scheme (not operating yet) and they seem to have different requirements??

I saw nothing that would prevent a puppy farm/ Very large commercial breeding facility from becoming accredited. Provided they agree to the rules. In QLD they have to join their breed club $$, they have to advertize in the Journal $$, pass an open book prefix test $$ (I guess even if you already have your prefix prior to testing), pay for the accreditation $$. Do required health testing or recommended health testing, but then it is very vague what is really recommended, so seems some could fudge there way around some if not most tests. NSW said reasonable cost health testing, so what is a reasonable amount to pay?

So yes I would say the ANKC Accredited Breed Program is designed to help and will be very attractive to big scale commercial breeders and puppy farms. They will have much to gain as far as making a good impression, legitimizing their facility, getting the ANKC special stamp of approval as great breeders, all of which would be well worth the extra money and effort. (Then just add the RSPCA 'approved' inspection and they they have the best place in town to buy a pup!!)

For small home breeders, not sure?? As small home breeder I would not do it. Don't want to join clubs $$ and really do not want journal adds $$ running all the time ( I have a long waiting list and do not want more phone calls). Would not want to spend the time or effort getting all the bits of papers and forms together. I feel there is nothing I need or want offered by the program.

[Rebanne]

I won't be signing up. Can't see the point really.

[B-Q]

You can't distinguish. Most people would be very hard pressed to tell the difference between a backyard breeder, puppy farmer and ANKC registered breeder. The lines are very blurry a lot of the time.....some backyarders do a great job of raising and socialising their pups, some puppy farmers are registered with the ANKC and have a prefix, some ANKC breeders churn out lots of litters a year with the sole intention of selling all the pups.

There's also the politics of the dog world to deal with...ask one person, they'll praise a breeder up, ask someone else and they'll have nothing good to say about the same breeder.

So who knows?

exactly and it aint going to get any better.

the only people who are not tarred and feathered by someone have been either extremely lucky or no ones decided they dont like em yet.

as for the cc's doing the "accredition" thing. i rang and asked why is this being done. to be told after the "pedigree dogs exposed" fallout and this being done in the uk and recommendations that an accreditation schem be implemented that the canine councils "have to be seen to be doing something" or if they do not show they are making an effort then the rspca and governement will legislate and take all rights away from the canine councils or words to that effect.

I'm not going to pretend I have the best understanding of the ANKC, I've never had a lot to do with it but I am interested and I've been following teh drama that Pedigree Dogs Exposed caused and learning what I can for the last few years. But doesn't reacting like this make it look like they were ignoring problems before?

I can see this all getting very messy with good dogs and good breeders stuck in the middle of it when they shouldn't be. Wouldn't it be easier if everyone had decent ethics and puppy farms just wern't an issue.

[Steve]

You can't distinguish. Most people would be very hard pressed to tell the difference between a backyard breeder, puppy farmer and ANKC registered breeder. The lines are very blurry a lot of the time.....some backyarders do a great job of raising and socialising their pups, some puppy farmers are registered with the ANKC and have a prefix, some ANKC breeders churn out lots of litters a year with the sole intention of selling all the pups.

There's also the politics of the dog world to deal with...ask one person, they'll praise a breeder up, ask someone else and they'll have nothing good to say about the same breeder.

So who knows?

exactly and it aint going to get any better.

the only people who are not tarred and feathered by someone have been either extremely lucky or no ones decided they dont like em yet.

as for the cc's doing the "accredition" thing. i rang and asked why is this being done. to be told after the "pedigree dogs exposed" fallout and this being done in the uk and recommendations that an accreditation schem be implemented that the canine councils "have to be seen to be doing something" or if they do not show they are making an effort then the rspca and governement will legislate and take all rights away from the canine councils or words to that effect.

I'm not going to pretend I have the best understanding of the ANKC, I've never had a lot to do with it but I am interested and I've been following teh drama that Pedigree Dogs Exposed caused and learning what I can for the last few years. But doesn't reacting like this make it look like they were ignoring problems before?

I can see this all getting very messy with good dogs and good breeders stuck in the middle of it when they shouldn't be. Wouldn't it be easier if everyone had decent ethics and puppy farms just wern't an issue.

Every now and then you see something that is truly stupid and this is one of them.

Firstly there is nothing in the accredited breeder scheme which all of us didnt already expect a breeder was already doing because they are a member of their state CC .

The things they have added are basics and legal - such as having to chip puppies etc. All this does is show that they are also admitting to having members who dont do these things and registering their puppies AND THEY KNOW IT.

But the biggest deal is that from Pedigree dogs exposed came the Bateman report released in the UK to try to find ways of dealing with supposed poor health of purebred dogs. Bateman several recommendations and ONE recommendation which said to introduce an accredited breeder program BUT the UK system is completely different to ours and peopel breed purebred dogs over there without even having a membership. In fact inthe UK membership is deliberately kept under a certain figure.

It was totally in appropriate for this country and our system but they are all racing in to do as they are told rather than standing their bloody ground and telling them we have it covered they went and told them most of us are no good!

Some of the people who have signed up for it are shockers but then anyone could be and still fit the criteria. Its harder to get into the MDBA than to be an accredited registered breeder - what a bloody joke and Jed is right the fact that any state CC has played this game is a disgrace. Nothing but a poor attempt at PR and more money.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Steve

[Erny]

Nothing but a poor attempt at PR and more money.

And that's where the most of everything in the dog world is going (present company excepted). Name the organisations who are prepared and strong enough to stand against the tide, when they see a good thing FOR THE DOGS, even if opinion doesn't necessarily mean they'll win the Jo Public popularity votes.

The way I see it is :

Master Dog Breeders Association (MDBA)

National Dog Trainers Federation (NDTF)

Can anyone else name one?

Dogs Victoria lost it for me when I was told (in response to my question of "why aren't we doing something about it?") that they need "to be nice to the Government".

RSPCA lost it for me when it pushed for the (successful) ban of the use of PPCollars here in Victoria - WITHOUT EVIDENCE of the tools having caused any harm (yet simultaneously supporting the use of head collars from which there IS EVIDENCE of harm from their use). That was a Publicity vote catching stunt as well, in my opinion - has to be, for I can think of no other.

ETA: Thing is, are the individual breeders willing to stand up and voice against the tide?

Edited October 29, 2010 by Erny

[Jed]

The fact that a couple of our most appalling "registered" puppy farms are some of the first to become accredited breeders does it for me. I would never join and be in their company.

A look at their website rings big bells - long and loud. Health information copied off club websites. Bog ugly dogs.

They probaby do health testing. But will the results make any difference to what they breed?

I think not.

And the way to find a good breeder is to ask someone who has one of the breed who is good. They will tell you. They might tell you to go to their breeder, or to go elsewhere.

Not everyone bags other breeders. I send enquiries to people I would trust and would buy from.

People who bought dogs from me over the years want another. I can't help, so I recommended a couple of breeders, and suggested they were the only ones to contact

I have found pups for quite a few people on the forum .... without bagging anyone.

[LizT]

You can't distinguish. Most people would be very hard pressed to tell the difference between a backyard breeder, puppy farmer and ANKC registered breeder. The lines are very blurry a lot of the time.....some backyarders do a great job of raising and socialising their pups, some puppy farmers are registered with the ANKC and have a prefix, some ANKC breeders churn out lots of litters a year with the sole intention of selling all the pups.

There's also the politics of the dog world to deal with...ask one person, they'll praise a breeder up, ask someone else and they'll have nothing good to say about the same breeder.

So who knows?

I had some puppy buyers tell me today that their local vets have told them who to stay away from in their area, basically the "puppy Millers" who keep dogs in tea chests in the middle of a paddock and puppies in turned over eskys for shelter???

...and some registered breeders who only breed a few litters a year do a poor job of socialising their puppies. It is very difficult for the buyer who need to be able to make an informed decision. Thank goodness there are many who do their homework.

Edited October 30, 2010 by LizT

[Steve]

You can't distinguish. Most people would be very hard pressed to tell the difference between a backyard breeder, puppy farmer and ANKC registered breeder. The lines are very blurry a lot of the time.....some backyarders do a great job of raising and socialising their pups, some puppy farmers are registered with the ANKC and have a prefix, some ANKC breeders churn out lots of litters a year with the sole intention of selling all the pups.

There's also the politics of the dog world to deal with...ask one person, they'll praise a breeder up, ask someone else and they'll have nothing good to say about the same breeder.

So who knows?

I had some puppy buyers tell me today that their local vets have told them who to stay away from in their area, basically the "puppy Millers" who keep dogs in tea chests in the middle of a paddock and puppies in turned over eskys for shelter???

...and some registered breeders who only breed a few litters a year do a poor job of socialising their puppies. It is very difficult for the buyer who need to be able to make an informed decision. Thank goodness there are many who do their homework.

Registration papers dont make the difference.