Puppy-mill Turned Kennel?

[-Megz-]

Shit if more than 20 dogs makes you a Puppy Mill my friend is f***ed she has closer to 50 dogs. I'm sure the assumptions can fly purely on that fact.

The OP said

Every two weeks for the past four years I've driven past this huge trailer-trash looking property, and they've had a big sign {like a church sign or roadworks sign} at the gate advertising a different breed of puppy and kitten every month or sooner.

Surely no proper breeder would have constantly changing breeds !!!!!! That is what clearly points to puppy-mill

My above friend has had two litters in the last few months, 1 Whippet and 1 Beagle and I think has another due in a month or so for yet another breed. All up she owns about 7-8 breeds - I don't see a problem with it.

[raz]

*sigh* He's the one person on earth I can stand next to and have my ass look smaller and now I've got to make him lose it. ;)

Bloody hell dont do that. He'll get a poverty line and then some dickhead really will report you! Leave him as is.

[Bow Wowy]

If you are concerned it might be worthwhile going in as a potential client and having a look around the place. If there are any concerns then at least you have an eye witness account.

Edited October 31, 2010 by Bow Wowy

[becks]

I hope somebody is checking the state of the lightswitches at this place?

splutter coffee, lmao!

[Parkeyre]

I hope somebody is checking the state of the lightswitches at this place?

splutter coffee, lmao!

Memories!!

[Moselle]

Shit if more than 20 dogs makes you a Puppy Mill my friend is f***ed she has closer to 50 dogs. I'm sure the assumptions can fly purely on that fact.

The OP said

Every two weeks for the past four years I've driven past this huge trailer-trash looking property, and they've had a big sign {like a church sign or roadworks sign} at the gate advertising a different breed of puppy and kitten every month or sooner.

Surely no proper breeder would have constantly changing breeds !!!!!! That is what clearly points to puppy-mill

My above friend has had two litters in the last few months, 1 Whippet and 1 Beagle and I think has another due in a month or so for yet another breed. All up she owns about 7-8 breeds - I don't see a problem with it.

50 dogs???? It is an impossibility to ensure that all 50 dogs are given proper care and invidual attention. Yes, that does constitute a puppy miller! She is breeding as a means to earn herself a considerable income and that is a NO NO. It is a disgrace!

[Moselle]

Some registered, ethical breeders have more than 1 breed.

For all we know, this person might actually be a registered breeder who takes great care of their dogs, shows, health tests etc, but just has a sign out front to advertise their puppies.

I'm not sure why there's only a 'slim chance' their dogs are well looked after.

The assumptions are absolutely astounding me!

I'm planning a litter of Stafford puppies.....I might just put a sign up outside my property. Then with my obvious trailer-trash, overgrown, weedy appearing property, I too can be reported to the RSPCA!!!

Can we stick to the point at hand instead of twisting things around, as per usual? lol

Huge difference between you placing a sign outside your property once in a long while and these people who are obviously breeding various breeds of dogs and also on a very regular basis, don't you think?

Some of you can be so childish when trying to prove a point and the ability to twist things around is quite astounding, lol.

[Moselle]

Oh and don't forget my horses....the redhead is too fat.

:D The redhead is gorgeous but yes, he does have a fat ass. Bad bad ellz!!!

When it comes to dogs....I suppose overfeeding them is just as bad as underfeeding them, what do you reckon?

[Natsu chan]

Honestly 50 dogs isn't an issue for some people. They won't all be brood bitches, some will be young ones being run on, some oldies, some show stock. It's easy to scream puppy farmer at someone but the only way to stop puppy farming is to ban all breeding. From a legal perspective there is no other way. For a family all working together 50 dogs isn't really ridiculous. You do need a certain number of dogs to maintain a good gene pool when you're breeding and with all the desexing laws and every other restrictive law being brought in you are going to see that most kennels will just have to be run this way, other wise there will not be enough animals to maintain the gene pools.

Not a dig at you personally but I can't understand how people can say they want to be able to own a pet but no one should be allowed to breed them. If we make breeding so legally restrictive that only commercial farms can afford to breed or ban breeding all together where do you think your next dog will come from?

Back in the 80's I went to one of the last big kennels remaining in my breed, I won't mention how many dogs where there more than 50 though and a long coated breed too. Everyone one of those dogs was beautifully groomed, fit, shinning with health and happy. They were beautiful dogs and their owner contributed a tremendous amount to the breed in this country. It was like heaven a swirling mass of beautiful happy dogs, each one loved and valued for there own self. Including the grand old lady of the place who was 17 and still very healthy.

It's not numbers it's care. That breeder and all those dogs are gone now but the legacy of all her work and effort is still alive and trotting around show rings and laying in whelping boxes nurturing the next generation. She was a Breeder not a puppy farmer but if you just look at the numbers and nothing else it would be easy to say other wise.

[oakway]

Shit if more than 20 dogs makes you a Puppy Mill my friend is f***ed she has closer to 50 dogs. I'm sure the assumptions can fly purely on that fact.

The OP said

Every two weeks for the past four years I've driven past this huge trailer-trash looking property, and they've had a big sign {like a church sign or roadworks sign} at the gate advertising a different breed of puppy and kitten every month or sooner.

Surely no proper breeder would have constantly changing breeds !!!!!! That is what clearly points to puppy-mill

My above friend has had two litters in the last few months, 1 Whippet and 1 Beagle and I think has another due in a month or so for yet another breed. All up she owns about 7-8 breeds - I don't see a problem with it.

50 dogs???? It is an impossibility to ensure that all 50 dogs are given proper care and invidual attention. Yes, that does constitute a puppy miller! She is breeding as a means to earn herself a considerable income and that is a NO NO. It is a disgrace!

NO it is not.

I can remember back to the days of big kennels nothing unusual to have 50 dog or more. All beautifully cared for and in immaculate conditions.

The only reason that most have more than halved their kennels is because times have changed a little and

the restrictions placed on breeders.

The bad publicity heaped upon us by a certain TV programme encouraging the purchase of designer dogs has cause a huge drop in the sales of pure bred dogs also.

Also remember it is NOT elegal to earn a living from breeding and selling dogs. It has been hapening since the early days of Rome.

The British have been breeding and selling dogs for years, and some brilliant ones at that.

Half our problems have began because of dog hating neighbors, dog hating councils and and an un educated public, plus the idiots who gave dog breeding a bad name only to make a fast buck.

We the breeders now have to suffer for the ignorance that others have now caused.

[shortstep]

Not a dig at you personally but I can't understand how people can say they want to be able to own a pet but no one should be allowed to breed them. If we make breeding so legally restrictive that only commercial farms can afford to breed or ban breeding all together where do you think your next dog will come from?

Also not a dig. I have often thought, that the best way to solve a problem is to jump in and do it your self the right way. I really think if someone thinks they know a better way of breeding pups then they should be doing it. If all the people who want to dictate how pups should be bred, started to breed pups it would be a great for the welfare of dogs.

[stormie]

Some registered, ethical breeders have more than 1 breed.

For all we know, this person might actually be a registered breeder who takes great care of their dogs, shows, health tests etc, but just has a sign out front to advertise their puppies.

I'm not sure why there's only a 'slim chance' their dogs are well looked after.

The assumptions are absolutely astounding me!

I'm planning a litter of Stafford puppies.....I might just put a sign up outside my property. Then with my obvious trailer-trash, overgrown, weedy appearing property, I too can be reported to the RSPCA!!!

Can we stick to the point at hand instead of twisting things around, as per usual? lol

Huge difference between you placing a sign outside your property once in a long while and these people who are obviously breeding various breeds of dogs and also on a very regular basis, don't you think?

Some of you can be so childish when trying to prove a point and the ability to twist things around is quite astounding, lol.

Isn't it just.

How can you say they are 'obviously breeding various breeds on a regular basis? You also said there's only a slim chance the dogs are being well cared for - all on the basis of a sign placed out the front of a house. Is that not twisting things?

How do you know this person isnt a rescuer, adveritising puppies they've saved from a puppy farm or pound?

[Moselle]

Some registered, ethical breeders have more than 1 breed.

For all we know, this person might actually be a registered breeder who takes great care of their dogs, shows, health tests etc, but just has a sign out front to advertise their puppies.

I'm not sure why there's only a 'slim chance' their dogs are well looked after.

The assumptions are absolutely astounding me!

I'm planning a litter of Stafford puppies.....I might just put a sign up outside my property. Then with my obvious trailer-trash, overgrown, weedy appearing property, I too can be reported to the RSPCA!!!

Can we stick to the point at hand instead of twisting things around, as per usual? lol

Huge difference between you placing a sign outside your property once in a long while and these people who are obviously breeding various breeds of dogs and also on a very regular basis, don't you think?

Some of you can be so childish when trying to prove a point and the ability to twist things around is quite astounding, lol.

Isn't it just.

How can you say they are 'obviously breeding various breeds on a regular basis? You also said there's only a slim chance the dogs are being well cared for - all on the basis of a sign placed out the front of a house. Is that not twisting things?

How do you know this person isnt a rescuer, adveritising puppies they've saved from a puppy farm or pound?

Well, I did say repeatedly that if it had been me driving past I would have stopped to see the situation first hand before ringing the RSPCA. I also did admit to being presumptious, we are all presuming this, that and the other; you yourself can be regarded as "presumptious" in assuming that they may advertise puppies they've saved from a farm or pound, none of us know the real situation. I somehow doubt that they are advertising pups obtained via the pound though....

I am not basing my opinion merely because of a sign hung outside the property, it is also based upon the fact that they seem to forever be selling pups of various different breeds that raises doubts...basically, we are all going round in circles....they may be doing this, they may be doing that.....god knows what they're truly doing, we are all just guessing.

[ellz]

Some registered, ethical breeders have more than 1 breed.

For all we know, this person might actually be a registered breeder who takes great care of their dogs, shows, health tests etc, but just has a sign out front to advertise their puppies.

I'm not sure why there's only a 'slim chance' their dogs are well looked after.

The assumptions are absolutely astounding me!

I'm planning a litter of Stafford puppies.....I might just put a sign up outside my property. Then with my obvious trailer-trash, overgrown, weedy appearing property, I too can be reported to the RSPCA!!!

Can we stick to the point at hand instead of twisting things around, as per usual? lol

Huge difference between you placing a sign outside your property once in a long while and these people who are obviously breeding various breeds of dogs and also on a very regular basis, don't you think?

Some of you can be so childish when trying to prove a point and the ability to twist things around is quite astounding, lol.

Isn't it just.

How can you say they are 'obviously breeding various breeds on a regular basis? You also said there's only a slim chance the dogs are being well cared for - all on the basis of a sign placed out the front of a house. Is that not twisting things?

How do you know this person isnt a rescuer, adveritising puppies they've saved from a puppy farm or pound?

Well, I did say repeatedly that if it had been me driving past I would have stopped to see the situation first hand before ringing the RSPCA. I also did admit to being presumptious, we are all presuming this, that and the other; you yourself can be regarded as "presumptious" in assuming that they may advertise puppies they've saved from a farm or pound, none of us know the real situation. I somehow doubt that they are advertising pups obtained via the pound though....

I am not basing my opinion merely because of a sign hung outside the property, it is also based upon the fact that they seem to forever be selling pups of various different breeds that raises doubts...basically, we are all going round in circles....they may be doing this, they may be doing that.....god knows what they're truly doing, we are all just guessing.

EXACTLY!! And until there is concrete EVIDENCE of animal mistreatment....the point is that it is completely over-the-top to be continually dobbing somebody in to the RSPCA!

[Crisovar]

Shit if more than 20 dogs makes you a Puppy Mill my friend is f***ed she has closer to 50 dogs. I'm sure the assumptions can fly purely on that fact.

The OP said

Every two weeks for the past four years I've driven past this huge trailer-trash looking property, and they've had a big sign {like a church sign or roadworks sign} at the gate advertising a different breed of puppy and kitten every month or sooner.

Surely no proper breeder would have constantly changing breeds !!!!!! That is what clearly points to puppy-mill

My above friend has had two litters in the last few months, 1 Whippet and 1 Beagle and I think has another due in a month or so for yet another breed. All up she owns about 7-8 breeds - I don't see a problem with it.

50 dogs???? It is an impossibility to ensure that all 50 dogs are given proper care and invidual attention. Yes, that does constitute a puppy miller! She is breeding as a means to earn herself a considerable income and that is a NO NO. It is a disgrace!

Really!! have you seen the setup have you seen the dogs, do you know these people????

Assuming again.

[ellz]

Some registered, ethical breeders have more than 1 breed.

For all we know, this person might actually be a registered breeder who takes great care of their dogs, shows, health tests etc, but just has a sign out front to advertise their puppies.

I'm not sure why there's only a 'slim chance' their dogs are well looked after.

The assumptions are absolutely astounding me!

I'm planning a litter of Stafford puppies.....I might just put a sign up outside my property. Then with my obvious trailer-trash, overgrown, weedy appearing property, I too can be reported to the RSPCA!!!

Can we stick to the point at hand instead of twisting things around, as per usual? lol

Huge difference between you placing a sign outside your property once in a long while and these people who are obviously breeding various breeds of dogs and also on a very regular basis, don't you think?

Some of you can be so childish when trying to prove a point and the ability to twist things around is quite astounding, lol.

Why is it twisting things around?

I live on 25 acres in the country. Why SHOULDN'T I put up a sign advertising my kennel and stud and any puppies or foals that I may have for sale? And why shouldn't I leave it there? Would save it being put up and taken down all the time. That would take my time away from my family and my animals.

I have entire bitches in 3 breeds....but only 6 dogs in total. I've had bitches of two different breeds with litters of puppies at one time.....and I live in a property that spends more time being unkempt than it does botanical garden tidy....but do feel free to report me to the RSPCA. You wouldn't be the first, you probably won't be the last and I'm happy to say that I'm still around to talk about it AND keep breeding and owning my dogs!!

If I could be arsed, I would most definitely put up a sign. But if in doing so, I'm going to invite the ADDED unwelcome attention of do-gooders making assumptions based upon my sign and how my property looks, then that would most certainly make me think twice. And that is a pity because I can see that signage would be another useful tool that the reputable breeder could use to educate potential puppy purchasers.

Edited November 1, 2010 by ellz

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

i am beginning to wonder if some people are here just to stir the pot because no amount of sensible discussion makes any difference.

legally until laws are broken nothing can be done.

in order to know if laws are broken someone needs to see something happening and a sign on a fence just wont cut it in court, sorry to say.

if people are that concerned, put your money where your mouth is, and go look at their setup because from what i have read here there is zero evidence that they are doing anything wrong.

goodness help us all if this sort of kangaroo court happens in the real world.

Edited November 1, 2010 by Jaxx'sBuddy

[ellz]

I notice that the OP hasn't had a lot to say that's for sure.

It really only seems to be Moselle that isn't "getting it" at the moment.

There really isn't that much to get.

Without evidence of mistreatment or neglect, there are no grounds to call the RSPCA.

It is not illegal to own a large number of dogs.

It is not illegal to own a large number of dogs of more than one breed.

It is not illegal to breed puppies and kittens to sell.

It is not illegal to breed more than one breed of puppy or kitten to sell.

It is not illegal to put up a sign (where council regulations permit such things) to sell anything, INCLUDING puppies and kittens.

It is not illegal to have a messy front yard. If a person has a messy front yard, this is a council matter and not an RSPCA matter.

It IS illegal to harrass people. Reporting somebody to the RSPCA on a regular basis without PROOF of neglect or mistreatment IS vexatious.

Making assumptions about what is behind a person's fences or doors is really not a clever way of making friends or influencing people.

If you really ARE concerned, then before you make the call to the RSPCA, by all means go and take a look under legitimate circumstances and make yourself aware of the PRECISE issues, not those that you think are lurking there.

[Crisovar]

i am beginning to wonder if some people are here just to stir the pot because no amount of sensible discussion makes any difference.

legally until laws are broken nothing can be done.

in order to know if laws are broken someone needs to see something happening and a sign on a fence just wont cut it in court, sorry to say.

if people are that concerned, put your money where your mouth is, and go look at their setup because from what i have read here there is zero evidence that they are doing anything wrong.

goodness help us all if this sort of kangaroo court happens in the real world.

Yep.

It is the sort of crap that is continually bleated on here that is leading to the future demise of dog ownership in this country.

You want a dog? You want a well bred dog? You want a healthy dog? You don't want to wait a couple of years for a dog?

Too bad all the breeders are walking away, the old breeders who had a clue, who could manage their animals in numbers and knew the pedigrees and their breed inside out are walking, many have already walked.

Once the big kennels were held in high esteem, their animals highly prized and sort after, now they are shunned and accused of neglect and mistreatment. Even the smaller breeders are copping it, because every tom dick and harry knows better. If you own more than * you are scum, if you don't show you are scum, if you advertise in the paper, own a couple of breeds, make a bit of profit and on it goes.

When you can't buy a dog for love nor money and all the breeders have packed up and gone, pat yourselves on the back

for a job well done.

[shortstep]

When you can't buy a dog for love nor money and all the breeders have packed up and gone, pat yourselves on the back

for a job well done.

Well said!