Puppy-mill Turned Kennel?

[poodlefan]

Moselle:

I am surprised that you dont have issues with people adopting the method of selling pups via signs outside a property...same concept as far as I am concerned!

I have many issues with it. However, until its against the law, my personal feelings are not sufficient reason to call the RSPCA. They need evidence.

At worst, these are vexatious complaints - that's harassment.

[Gayle.]

Every two weeks for the past four years I've driven past this huge trailer-trash looking property, and they've had a big sign {like a church sign or roadworks sign} at the gate advertising a different breed of puppy and kitten every month or sooner.

If I slowed down enough and had a crane-and-nosy, I could see rows of runs behind the bushes and rusty cars, and sometimes I'd see dogs in this small paddock looking area.

Please note that I DID think it was fishy, and I reported it to the RSPCA no less than three times a year since I first noticed it, every single time was "Oh, that's a worry, we'll look into it". When I ask to keep undated with the investigation, I've had a range of responses that go from "Sorry, that will be classified information" to "We'll send you an email" {never received a thing}

Still they kept advertising all these different breeds and litters so obviously nothing was done about it.

Last night I drove past it for the first time this month, and they have a puppy-kitten sign out but a lovely new sign next to it, saying _____ Boarding Kennels.

Puppy mill turned boarding kennel? I'm afraid I don't understand if a place like that is even able to become a kennel.

Should I make an effort to report it once again {I was actually going to pose as a potential customer and insist on seeing the grounds} or do you think this is perfectly reasonable and I'm actually a crazy animal-welfare nut who sees puppy mills in every darkened garage corner?

Also want to add, I'm not going to say where this kennel is or what the name is. I don't want this to be a situation where the possible-puppy-mill sold the property to a respectable business owner who is going to renovate it into a lovely kennels, and I ruin their business by mentioning that they're a puppy mill to the dog community.

I personally would have wanted to take a closer look at the property to ensure that they did deserve to be reported to the RSPCA BUT lest we forget that selling puppies and kittens on a regular basis DOES constitute PUPPY MILLING !! The OP has made it amply clear that there were large signs advertising puppies & kittens on a very regular basis! Too regular for my liking....breeding should be done to better the breed and NOT as a means to pay one's mortgage! I must say that I dont think too highly of anyone wanting to sell animals esp pet animals via signs outside a property. Given that most of you like to take up residence on a

mountain top and shout your distaste at pet shops for getting their 'stock' from puppy millers (me included) and also for relying on people walking by and purchasing a pup on a whim because it looks cute, I am surprised that you dont have issues with people adopting the method of selling pups via signs outside a property...same concept as far as I am concerned!

Puppy mills/farms are not illegal. Nor is selling many puppies regularly via a sign posted out front.

Doesn't matter how highly or lowly you think of them, or whether it's to your liking or not, it's not against the law.

[Moselle]

Moselle:

I am surprised that you dont have issues with people adopting the method of selling pups via signs outside a property...same concept as far as I am concerned!

I have many issues with it. However, until its against the law, my personal feelings are not sufficient reason to call the RSPCA. They need evidence.

At worst, these are vexatious complaints - that's harassment.

Poodlefan.....the mere fact that these breeders are breeding multiple breeds and appear to have a litter every month or so is an indication that they are breeding large scale and that deserves a visit from the RSPCA and even though some things may not be against the law does not mean that we should turn a blind eye.

[Moselle]

Every two weeks for the past four years I've driven past this huge trailer-trash looking property, and they've had a big sign {like a church sign or roadworks sign} at the gate advertising a different breed of puppy and kitten every month or sooner.

If I slowed down enough and had a crane-and-nosy, I could see rows of runs behind the bushes and rusty cars, and sometimes I'd see dogs in this small paddock looking area.

Please note that I DID think it was fishy, and I reported it to the RSPCA no less than three times a year since I first noticed it, every single time was "Oh, that's a worry, we'll look into it". When I ask to keep undated with the investigation, I've had a range of responses that go from "Sorry, that will be classified information" to "We'll send you an email" {never received a thing}

Still they kept advertising all these different breeds and litters so obviously nothing was done about it.

Last night I drove past it for the first time this month, and they have a puppy-kitten sign out but a lovely new sign next to it, saying _____ Boarding Kennels.

Puppy mill turned boarding kennel? I'm afraid I don't understand if a place like that is even able to become a kennel.

Should I make an effort to report it once again {I was actually going to pose as a potential customer and insist on seeing the grounds} or do you think this is perfectly reasonable and I'm actually a crazy animal-welfare nut who sees puppy mills in every darkened garage corner?

Also want to add, I'm not going to say where this kennel is or what the name is. I don't want this to be a situation where the possible-puppy-mill sold the property to a respectable business owner who is going to renovate it into a lovely kennels, and I ruin their business by mentioning that they're a puppy mill to the dog community.

I personally would have wanted to take a closer look at the property to ensure that they did deserve to be reported to the RSPCA BUT lest we forget that selling puppies and kittens on a regular basis DOES constitute PUPPY MILLING !! The OP has made it amply clear that there were large signs advertising puppies & kittens on a very regular basis! Too regular for my liking....breeding should be done to better the breed and NOT as a means to pay one's mortgage! I must say that I dont think too highly of anyone wanting to sell animals esp pet animals via signs outside a property. Given that most of you like to take up residence on a

mountain top and shout your distaste at pet shops for getting their 'stock' from puppy millers (me included) and also for relying on people walking by and purchasing a pup on a whim because it looks cute, I am surprised that you dont have issues with people adopting the method of selling pups via signs outside a property...same concept as far as I am concerned!

Puppy mills/farms are not illegal. Nor is selling many puppies regularly via a sign posted out front.

Doesn't matter how highly or lowly you think of them, or whether it's to your liking or not, it's not against the law.

Puppy mills/farms may not be illegal BUT that does not make it right! And I must add that what the poster has done is not illegal either, she showed a genuine concern for the welfare of those animals and rightly so. She did nothing wrong in reporting them to the RSPCA...and besides which, if these breeders are up to par with their breeding practices....they have nothing to fear, so nothing gained...nothing lost, right?

[ellz]

Moselle:

I am surprised that you dont have issues with people adopting the method of selling pups via signs outside a property...same concept as far as I am concerned!

I have many issues with it. However, until its against the law, my personal feelings are not sufficient reason to call the RSPCA. They need evidence.

At worst, these are vexatious complaints - that's harassment.

Poodlefan.....the mere fact that these breeders are breeding multiple breeds and appear to have a litter every month or so is an indication that they are breeding large scale and that deserves a visit from the RSPCA and even though some things may not be against the law does not mean that we should turn a blind eye.

How do you know they haven't already HAD visits from the RSPCA? Breeding multiple breeds and lots of them, whilst not necessarily what is acceptable to some is still within the law and provided they have their ducks in a row....there is little that the RSPCA can actually do.

And regardless of anything, sooling the RSPCA onto somebody from a drive-by where there is apparently little or no evidence of mistreatment VISIBLE, is little more than harrassment.

If you have a concern, then for goodness sakes make the effort to actually STOP and VISIT the premises and THEN if you have an issue, by all means contact the RSPCA.

[poodlefan]

Poodlefan.....the mere fact that these breeders are breeding multiple breeds and appear to have a litter every month or so is an indication that they are breeding large scale and that deserves a visit from the RSPCA and even though some things may not be against the law does not mean that we should turn a blind eye.

Turn a blind eye to what?

It is not against any animal welfare law to breed multiple breeds or to do so regularly. What basis would you suggest the RSPCA has to turn up other than a baseless complaint from a member of the public?? Are you in favour of the RSPCA having the authority to drop by based on the fact that someone has views about the level of tidiness of your property?

Rangers would have more reason if they're failing to comply with council regs. But how do we know they are?

[Gayle.]

The fact that's she's reported them three times a year for 4 years without having sighted the animals except for a drive-by glimpse, is harrassment. The fact that it's still operating means there wasn't anythng wrong, not that they RSPCA didn't do anything about it.

[Moselle]

Moselle:

I am surprised that you dont have issues with people adopting the method of selling pups via signs outside a property...same concept as far as I am concerned!

I have many issues with it. However, until its against the law, my personal feelings are not sufficient reason to call the RSPCA. They need evidence.

At worst, these are vexatious complaints - that's harassment.

Poodlefan.....the mere fact that these breeders are breeding multiple breeds and appear to have a litter every month or so is an indication that they are breeding large scale and that deserves a visit from the RSPCA and even though some things may not be against the law does not mean that we should turn a blind eye.

How do you know they haven't already HAD visits from the RSPCA? Breeding multiple breeds and lots of them, whilst not necessarily what is acceptable to some is still within the law and provided they have their ducks in a row....there is little that the RSPCA can actually do.

And regardless of anything, sooling the RSPCA onto somebody from a drive-by where there is apparently little or no evidence of mistreatment VISIBLE, is little more than harrassment.

If you have a concern, then for goodness sakes make the effort to actually STOP and VISIT the premises and THEN if you have an issue, by all means contact the RSPCA.

Personally, I would have stopped to see for myself BUT I am not going to crucify the poster because she opted not to stop! Breeding large scale may be 'within the law' but that does not make it right and I am adamantly against it esp if breeding several different breeds of dogs and selling them like grocery! It is considered an embarrasment for reg breeders to advertise a litter of pups via newspapers (nothing wrong with that imo) and yet its okay to sell living beings via a large sign hanging outside a property? You may consider it 'harrassment' to report such types to the RSPCA but my main concern lies with the animal's wellbeing.

[Moselle]

The fact that's she's reported them three times a year for 4 years without having sighted the animals except for a drive-by glimpse, is harrassment. The fact that it's still operating means there wasn't anythng wrong, not that they RSPCA didn't do anything about it.

Well, there you have it....the factory is still operational ! Perhaps the RSPCA dropped by to investigate and may not have had a problem with them....not that that means everything but at the very least....it has been looked into...maybe! Putting the blinkers on is not exactly the right approach....

[ellz]

Moselle:

I am surprised that you dont have issues with people adopting the method of selling pups via signs outside a property...same concept as far as I am concerned!

I have many issues with it. However, until its against the law, my personal feelings are not sufficient reason to call the RSPCA. They need evidence.

At worst, these are vexatious complaints - that's harassment.

Poodlefan.....the mere fact that these breeders are breeding multiple breeds and appear to have a litter every month or so is an indication that they are breeding large scale and that deserves a visit from the RSPCA and even though some things may not be against the law does not mean that we should turn a blind eye.

How do you know they haven't already HAD visits from the RSPCA? Breeding multiple breeds and lots of them, whilst not necessarily what is acceptable to some is still within the law and provided they have their ducks in a row....there is little that the RSPCA can actually do.

And regardless of anything, sooling the RSPCA onto somebody from a drive-by where there is apparently little or no evidence of mistreatment VISIBLE, is little more than harrassment.

If you have a concern, then for goodness sakes make the effort to actually STOP and VISIT the premises and THEN if you have an issue, by all means contact the RSPCA.

Personally, I would have stopped to see for myself BUT I am not going to crucify the poster because she opted not to stop! Breeding large scale may be 'within the law' but that does not make it right and I am adamantly against it esp if breeding several different breeds of dogs and selling them like grocery! It is considered an embarrasment for reg breeders to advertise a litter of pups via newspapers (nothing wrong with that imo) and yet its okay to sell living beings via a large sign hanging outside a property? You may consider it 'harrassment' to report such types to the RSPCA but my main concern lies with the animal's wellbeing.

NOBODY is saying that it is what we LIKE or what we ourselves CONDONE but you are missing the point.....it is NOT AGAINST THE LAW!!!

Just because somebody doesn't like the appearance of a person's home does not give them the right to harrass them by calling the RSPCA WITHOUT EVIDENCE OF MISTREATMENT!!

Heck, half of the "wog palaces" (apologies in advance to anybody who may take offence, I'm just trying to make a point) in a certain suburb hurt my eyes but I legally cannot go around complaining that they mistreat their animals WITHOUT EVIDENCE!!!!!

Can't you see the difference? Or are you deliberately NOT seeing the difference??????????

[Moselle]

Poodlefan.....the mere fact that these breeders are breeding multiple breeds and appear to have a litter every month or so is an indication that they are breeding large scale and that deserves a visit from the RSPCA and even though some things may not be against the law does not mean that we should turn a blind eye.

Turn a blind eye to what?

It is not against any animal welfare law to breed multiple breeds or to do so regularly. What basis would you suggest the RSPCA has to turn up other than a baseless complaint from a member of the public?? Are you in favour of the RSPCA having the authority to drop by based on the fact that someone has views about the level of tidiness of your property?

Rangers would have more reason if they're failing to comply with council regs. But how do we know they are?

No, ABSOLUTELY NOT! I would not like the RSPCA having the authority to drop by based on the views of the tidiness of the property BUT when it comes to someone breeding large scale...I am not so sure.....it all boils to ethics and I would NEVER give the RSPCA more powers than they already have....entering a property and seizing animals with all kinds of allegations? ....mmmm, that is a great concern as it is all dependant on the sincerity of the individual. It is a big ask.

[Gayle.]

You may consider it 'harrassment' to report such types to the RSPCA but my main concern lies with the animal's wellbeing.

And that is the RSPCA's concern too. If the animals wellbeing is fine and the business owners are operating within the law, what's the issue?

Contunially reporting someone for doing something that is not wrong, IS harrassment.

[~Anne~]

Who is to say that they're just a tad lazy and leave the signs out long after the pups are sold, so it seems there are lots of puppies for sale.

Although I understand why you might feel concern, you are barking up a tree of assumptions based on your emotional reaction to what you perceive is wrong.

Assumptions and predjudices are dangerous. Unless you have evidence of cruelty or neglect, leave it alone.

[Moselle]

Who is to say that they're just a tad lazy and leave the signs out long after the pups are sold, so it seems there are lots of puppies for sale.

Although I understand why you might feel concern, you are barking up a tree of assumptions based on your emotional reaction to what you perceive is wrong.

Assumptions and predjudices are dangerous. Unless you have evidence of cruelty or neglect, leave it alone.

If they are too lazy to remove the sign long after the pups are gone is an indication that perhaps they are too lazy to look after the dogs adequately...besides which...would you want to be hassled by people dropping by wanting to buy a pup when you no longer have any? or is it convenient for the simple reason that their name can be jotted down in preparation for the very next litter which may be just around the corner?

[ellz]

Who is to say that they're just a tad lazy and leave the signs out long after the pups are sold, so it seems there are lots of puppies for sale.

Although I understand why you might feel concern, you are barking up a tree of assumptions based on your emotional reaction to what you perceive is wrong.

Assumptions and predjudices are dangerous. Unless you have evidence of cruelty or neglect, leave it alone.

If they are too lazy to remove the sign long after the pups are gone is an indication that perhaps they are too lazy to look after the dogs adequately...besides which...would you want to be hassled by people dropping by wanting to buy a pup when you no longer have any? or is it convenient for the simple reason that their name can be jotted down in preparation for the very next litter which may be just around the corner?

And again, your emotions are getting away with you. You are ASSUMING that they are perhaps too lazy to look after their dogs.

To but the boot on the other foot....maybe they are so busy doing a good job by their dogs that a sign is the least of their worries?

Having a sign on the side of the road is not a lot different to a breeder having a website that appears in a search engine, or having a breeder listing on DOL come to that. People will take notice of it if they want to.

[Moselle]

You may consider it 'harrassment' to report such types to the RSPCA but my main concern lies with the animal's wellbeing.

And that is the RSPCA's concern too. If the animals wellbeing is fine and the business owners are operating within the law, what's the issue?

Contunially reporting someone for doing something that is not wrong, IS harrassment.

Yes continuously reporting someone is harrassment BUT then whose fault is that? I know that if I report something to the RSPCA I would expect to be told that all was okay if that was the case but it is abundantly clear that the RSPCA have not gotten in touch with the poster and that only serves to leave a big question mark ????.....dont you think?

[ellz]

You may consider it 'harrassment' to report such types to the RSPCA but my main concern lies with the animal's wellbeing.

And that is the RSPCA's concern too. If the animals wellbeing is fine and the business owners are operating within the law, what's the issue?

Contunially reporting someone for doing something that is not wrong, IS harrassment.

Yes continuously reporting someone is harrassment BUT then whose fault is that? I know that if I report something to the RSPCA I would expect to be told that all was okay if that was the case but it is abundantly clear that the RSPCA have not gotten in touch with the poster and that only serves to leave a big question mark ????.....dont you think?

Ummmmm no. It is yet another example of the RSPCA not following up for whatever reason. It wouldn't be the first time and I would bet pounds to peanuts that it won't be the last either.

Again...you are ASSUMING!!!

[poodlefan]

Moselle:

If they are too lazy to remove the sign long after the pups are gone is an indication that perhaps they are too lazy to look after the dogs adequately...

Well all I can say is if people are judging my dog husbandry by my inclination to garden, I shall await the arrival of an RSPCA inspector shortly. My weeds can only be described as spectacular.

But I am gardening tomorrow - I promise

Edited October 29, 2010 by poodlefan

[~Anne~]

Who is to say that they're just a tad lazy and leave the signs out long after the pups are sold, so it seems there are lots of puppies for sale.

Although I understand why you might feel concern, you are barking up a tree of assumptions based on your emotional reaction to what you perceive is wrong.

Assumptions and predjudices are dangerous. Unless you have evidence of cruelty or neglect, leave it alone.

If they are too lazy to remove the sign long after the pups are gone is an indication that perhaps they are too lazy to look after the dogs adequately...besides which...would you want to be hassled by people dropping by wanting to buy a pup when you no longer have any? or is it convenient for the simple reason that their name can be jotted down in preparation for the very next litter which may be just around the corner?

Wow, that's an assumption if I've ever heard one.

I am too lazy sometimes to make vacuum my floors, does that mean in your eyes I am too lazy to look after my dogs adequately.

Again, your idea of 'people dropping by and hassling to buy a pup' is an assumption in two ways - 1. that is a hassle and 2. that people drop by in sufficient numbers.

I had a website, it was available 24/7 and available to far more people than a roadside sign. I wasn't drowning in email enquiries. I did receive quite a good number, but I liked this as it afforded me a waiting list. Thses people might also work via a waiting list.

Who knows, as I said, everything your are saying is illogical or an assumption based on your predjudice.

Edited October 29, 2010 by ~Anne~

[ellz]

Moselle:

If they are too lazy to remove the sign long after the pups are gone is an indication that perhaps they are too lazy to look after the dogs adequately...

Well all I can say is if people are judging my dog husbandry by my inclination to garden, I shall await the arrival of an RSPCA inspector shortly. My weeds can only be described as spectacular.

Me too. My biggest problem is the council keep getting narky (and rightly so) because my horse plays "fetch" with my tyre roundyard. But that should surely not be a reason to call in the RSPCA....unless providing a constant source of amusement for a naughty horse is cruel?