Puppy-mill Turned Kennel?

[ellz]

Infiltrating and taking over organizations is a PETA tactic.

And if we listen to what people say, they are very successful with this tactic. Maybe we can be as well.

The problem is funds. PETA has some very well-known, incredibly wealthy people who are willing to inject them with funds as required. Unless they can be matched, there is little that can be done to push PETA from the scene.

[~Anne~]

Infiltrating and taking over organizations is a PETA tactic.

And if we listen to what people say, they are very successful with this tactic. Maybe we can be as well.

The problem is funds. PETA has some very well-known, incredibly wealthy people who are willing to inject them with funds as required. Unless they can be matched, there is little that can be done to push PETA from the scene.

Like them or loathe them they only are able to do this with clever marketing and by a long slow process of gathering support. They are only human, we are too. We can match and beat PETA with the right people. The MDBA are already there, we just need to jump behind them and support them and find some clever PR and marketing gurus to assist perhpas??

[shortstep]

Like them or loathe them they only are able to do this with clever marketing and by a long slow process of gathering support. They are only human, we are too. We can match and beat PETA with the right people. The MDBA are already there, we just need to jump behind them and support them and find some clever PR and marketing gurus to assist perhpas??

LOL and who would donate 33 milllion each year to our side? And that is just what PETA gets in one year, then you have to add in RSPCA (which in part is your tax $ used agasint you) and all the other radical animal rights groups jocking for donation money. Not to mention the Green groups who want all domestic animals eliminated.

Can someone show me where the RSPCA has put up a position (such as supporting dog breeder licensing in Vic or Tassie or QLD) to the general membership to vote on?

While you are at it, I can not seem to find anywhere that the public can join the RSPCA, can someone show me a link to join?

edited I found it you have to join in each state. I also see they say they can refuse membership to anyone for any reason.

Edited November 6, 2010 by shortstep

[Are You Serious Jo]

If the RSPCA is a problem, become members, over come them with numbers, load the meeting, vote in your own committee, dismiss any employees who are anti-purebred dog breeders. If your kennel clubs are the problem, do the same thing.

This is also the way I think we should move although obviously you have stated it in a very simplistic manner, but the gist of it is very much true in my opinion. The only way to alter the course is for concerned people to become the people who make the decisions.

This was actually attempted but very few members of the canine controlling bodies actually had membership applications accepted.

This is true. You can inflitrate much easier as a PETA member because if you are a registered breeder your details are basically public and they just refuse membership.

[ellz]

Like them or loathe them they only are able to do this with clever marketing and by a long slow process of gathering support. They are only human, we are too. We can match and beat PETA with the right people. The MDBA are already there, we just need to jump behind them and support them and find some clever PR and marketing gurus to assist perhpas??

LOL and who would donate 33 milllion each year to our side? And that is just what PETA gets in one year, then you have to add in RSPCA (which in part is your tax $ used agasint you) and all the other radical animal rights groups jocking for donation money. Not to mention the Green groups who want all domestic animals eliminated.

Can someone show me where the RSPCA has put up a position (such as supporting dog breeder licensing in Vic or Tassie or QLD) to the general membership to vote on?

While you are at it, I can not seem to find anywhere that the public can join the RSPCA, can someone show me a link to join?

http://www.rspcatas.org.au/how-you-can-help/rspca-membership

[Are You Serious Jo]

You should try to find a page that tells you how to make a complaint to the RSPCA themselves, they conveniently have forgotten to add that into their website

[shortstep]

This is true. You can inflitrate much easier as a PETA member because if you are a registered breeder your details are basically public and they just refuse membership.

Looking at the ACT memvership form,

Right on the application you have to disclose if you are a member of any animal organization.

Also says

'It is important that members of RSPCA ACT are aware of the Society’s policies and positions on animal welfare and that they uphold RSPCA values'.

Goes on to say memebership can be withdrawn.

[raz]

Dog breeders in the US have not banded together. There is a huge split between working dog breeders, other registries and private breed club/registries in opposition to the kennel club. In fact, in a number of breeds there are far more dogs registered in 'other' registries than in the kennel club. In fact, the kennel club has done hostile take overs of popular breeds when the breed clubs have refused to join the kennel club. There is no love lost between the different groups of dog owners/breeders and the kennel club in the US.

Yes I hear you. So true.

[ellz]

Dog breeders in the US have not banded together. There is a huge split between working dog breeders, other registries and private breed club/registries in opposition to the kennel club. In fact, in a number of breeds there are far more dogs registered in 'other' registries than in the kennel club. In fact, the kennel club has done hostile take overs of popular breeds when the breed clubs have refused to join the kennel club. There is no love lost between the different groups of dog owners/breeders and the kennel club in the US.

Yes I hear you. So true.

I'm a bit "on the fence" on shortstep's comments about other registries. It is the "other" registries which enable Pitbull owners/breeders to register their dogs "legimately" to circumnavigate BSL laws. They also allow registrations in some breeds in colours which are not historically acceptable in some long-established breeds. How is this constructive? How can it be seen to be legitimate?

[ellz]

'It is important that members of RSPCA ACT are aware of the Society’s policies and positions on animal welfare and that they uphold RSPCA values'.

Goes on to say memebership can be withdrawn.

Precisely why I've never allowed my children to join the RSPCA whenever there is a membership drive through schools. I do NOT uphold RSPCA values and therefore my children don't because they are minors.

[shortstep]

I'm a bit "on the fence" on shortstep's comments about other registries. It is the "other" registries which enable Pitbull owners/breeders to register their dogs "legimately" to circumnavigate BSL laws. They also allow registrations in some breeds in colours which are not historically acceptable in some long-established breeds. How is this constructive? How can it be seen to be legitimate?

There are all kinds of registries.

First one that comes to mind ASCA ( Australian Shep) the founding registry of the breed.

Can't think of the name but the Jack Russel registry, around long before AKC registered Jacks.

There is the United Kennel Club, which is legitmate, they hold great events for kids, also obedience, agility tracking and so forth, they register all breeds. (Put down by some AKC breeders but many people dual registered in both) do not confuse with continetal or a many other rat bag sort of clubs. Sorry I don't know about pit bulls but I would be sure they have their other registers besides AKC (maybe the UKC was their founding registry??).

There is a working dog register for border collies, is the biggest register for border collies in the world, status is very high as is the only other register accepted by ISDS the founding register of the breed in the UK.

There are heaps more, some are not really legitamate but many are very well respected.

Edited to add, many of these "other' registries are accepted by the AKC.

Some of these 'other registries" also have very high connections in some important places, like in government, Unis or other places that have some say or are postions of power in what happenes.

Edited November 6, 2010 by shortstep

[raz]

I'm a bit "on the fence" on shortstep's comments about other registries. It is the "other" registries which enable Pitbull owners/breeders to register their dogs "legimately" to circumnavigate BSL laws. They also allow registrations in some breeds in colours which are not historically acceptable in some long-established breeds. How is this constructive? How can it be seen to be legitimate?

It's the infighting, ellz. No one can seem to get their act together

[shortstep]

I'm a bit "on the fence" on shortstep's comments about other registries. It is the "other" registries which enable Pitbull owners/breeders to register their dogs "legimately" to circumnavigate BSL laws. They also allow registrations in some breeds in colours which are not historically acceptable in some long-established breeds. How is this constructive? How can it be seen to be legitimate?

It's the infighting, ellz. No one can seem to get their act together

You are very right, just like Ells statement about coat colours, stupid stuff in many instances to fight about but that is dog breeders for you. But be clear Ellz that ANKC also bans certain colours that have a very long and documented history in the breed and they refuse to change the standard to the country of origin to allow these colours. So it is on both sides, no group is free of silly ideas.

Edited November 6, 2010 by shortstep

[ellz]

I'm a bit "on the fence" on shortstep's comments about other registries. It is the "other" registries which enable Pitbull owners/breeders to register their dogs "legimately" to circumnavigate BSL laws. They also allow registrations in some breeds in colours which are not historically acceptable in some long-established breeds. How is this constructive? How can it be seen to be legitimate?

It's the infighting, ellz. No one can seem to get their act together

You are very right, just like Ells statement about coat colours, stupid stuff in many instances to fight about but that is dog breeders for you. But be clear Ellz that ANKC also bans certain colours that have a very long and documented history in the breed and they refuse to change the standard to the country of origin to allow these colours. So it is on both sides, no group is free of silly ideas.

Sorry but not changing to the country of origin has little to do with the ANKC. That is the responsiblity of the parent clubs of a particular breed within Australia. They have the responsibility of proposing the change to country of origin and if it is not done, then they only have themselves to blame.

[shortstep]

Sorry but not changing to the country of origin has little to do with the ANKC. That is the responsiblity of the parent clubs of a particular breed within Australia. They have the responsibility of proposing the change to country of origin and if it is not done, then they only have themselves to blame.

Well Ok but then that would apply to those breed parent clubs that allow colours you do not want to see listed. The point is there is no end to the topics that dog people can fight about it. But the one thing they need to do now is to join together and fight animal rights radicals, but this is usually forsaken in the name of some stupid fight over things like coat colours. Another words most dog breeders can not join together with other groups of dog people because they can not abid the other groups and would rather go down with the ship then reach out and join hands to help all dog owners and breeders as one voice.

Just took a quick look at UKC and the first thing on their web site is opposition to some pending dog laws. Then I notice a world championship for begal hunting and towards the bottom of the page a bit about other hunting trials. I know a lot obedience people belong to them as they hold a lot of trials. I do not have to want to be a memeber to get along with them and certainly not to join with them as a larger voice for the protection of dog ownership. That is all I am trying to say.

[ellz]

Are you aware that you do not have to BE a member of the AKC or other registries in the USA? There is no requirement whatsoever to be a member anywhere to breed or exhibit animals there.

The rivalries between the registries is not, in all cases, people refusing to get along. There are more serious issues such as the UKC allowing dogs that are on Limited Registration with the AKC to be re-registered and exhibited and bred from, even if they have disqualifying features. They require no proof, no anything from the breeder and will register almost ANY dog that has a uterus or testicles. They have demonstrated no morals when it comes to upholding the AKC and its registry and breeders, yet the AKC is expected to just turn the other cheek???? I have trouble demonstrating faith in such organisations and I would certainly require a little more moral fibre before I could completely trust the UKC and many other of the smaller, boutique registries that are popping up.

I just can't see the relevance between the ANKC and PETA or the RSPCA. The whole point is that it is the ANKC and the state controlling bodies and associated breeders/exhibitors vs PETA and the RSPCA.

And yes, the writing is on the wall and there really is very little that we (collectively) can do about it in the long run.

[raz]

Are you aware that you do not have to BE a member of the AKC or other registries in the USA?

Yeah. Shortstep is actually agreeing with you so stop being so reactive. I watched it my own breed. People not wanting to breed to the standard screwed it for everyone else.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

united we stand, divided we fall

this is worth remembering if we want to hold onto what is dear to us.

sometimes in a crisis there can be many strange bedfellows who fight together

[shortstep]

I just can't see the relevance between the ANKC and PETA or the RSPCA. The whole point is that it is the ANKC and the state controlling bodies and associated breeders/exhibitors vs PETA and the RSPCA.

Well exactly, that is your perspective. It is a common perspective among show dog breeders world wide and other groups of dog owners. They only focus on what is happening to them in their country, often only about their state, maybe even just their shire and sometimes only about their breed.

I see it as a world wide effort to end all dog ownership. The attack on kennel clubs (meaning show dog breeders world wide) is just one of many attacks going on. But all groups from pet owners, working dog folks, breeders of all types of dogs, they all are under attack.

This difference in perspective is what I see as a very big problem and the main reason why the animal rights radicals are winning.

[Steve]

Dog breeders in the US have not banded together. There is a huge split between working dog breeders, other registries and private breed club/registries in opposition to the kennel club. In fact, in a number of breeds there are far more dogs registered in 'other' registries than in the kennel club. In fact, the kennel club has done hostile take overs of popular breeds when the breed clubs have refused to join the kennel club. There is no love lost between the different groups of dog owners/breeders and the kennel club in the US.

Yes I hear you. So true.

I'm a bit "on the fence" on shortstep's comments about other registries. It is the "other" registries which enable Pitbull owners/breeders to register their dogs "legimately" to circumnavigate BSL laws. They also allow registrations in some breeds in colours which are not historically acceptable in some long-established breeds. How is this constructive? How can it be seen to be legitimate?

Because sooner or later people have to get their heads around the fact that the ANKC recognise some breeds based on their own criteria.That doesnt mean its the right criteria or the only criteria to recognise a breed or that they are the only ones who get to say that their registry is the only one which is bone - fide.

The ANKC have historically allowed us to register dogs which have not been acceptable in the ring on their registry. I know this because once 32 years ago I owned two liver beagles on main register and when I bred boxers I placed white boxers on the registry too with limited rego. In fact if all puppies have to be registered and they dont accept puppies on the registry which are not of acceptable colour - therefore assuming any acceptable colour which is born will be bumped off - every bloody animal welfare crazy will be all over them as soon as they hear of it. Every genetic expert in the world accepts 4 or 5 generation pedigrees as purebred and many breeds dont want to be associated with or have the ANKC keep their records.

Sure some of these registries are dodgy because they are accepting cross bred dogs etc but I dont believe a registry has to automatically be the clone of some off shoot of the industrial revolution in the UK to be given a tick either.