Puppy-mill Turned Kennel?

[bullyfan]

Yep.

It is the sort of crap that is continually bleated on here that is leading to the future demise of dog ownership in this country.

You want a dog? You want a well bred dog? You want a healthy dog? You don't want to wait a couple of years for a dog?

Too bad all the breeders are walking away, the old breeders who had a clue, who could manage their animals in numbers and knew the pedigrees and their breed inside out are walking, many have already walked.

Once the big kennels were held in high esteem, their animals highly prized and sort after, now they are shunned and accused of neglect and mistreatment. Even the smaller breeders are copping it, because every tom dick and harry knows better. If you own more than * you are scum, if you don't show you are scum, if you advertise in the paper, own a couple of breeds, make a bit of profit and on it goes.

When you can't buy a dog for love nor money and all the breeders have packed up and gone, pat yourselves on the back

for a job well done.

:p :p here here.

[Moselle]

Shit if more than 20 dogs makes you a Puppy Mill my friend is f***ed she has closer to 50 dogs. I'm sure the assumptions can fly purely on that fact.

The OP said

Every two weeks for the past four years I've driven past this huge trailer-trash looking property, and they've had a big sign {like a church sign or roadworks sign} at the gate advertising a different breed of puppy and kitten every month or sooner.

Surely no proper breeder would have constantly changing breeds !!!!!! That is what clearly points to puppy-mill

My above friend has had two litters in the last few months, 1 Whippet and 1 Beagle and I think has another due in a month or so for yet another breed. All up she owns about 7-8 breeds - I don't see a problem with it.

50 dogs???? :p It is an impossibility to ensure that all 50 dogs are given proper care and invidual attention. Yes, that does constitute a puppy miller! She is breeding as a means to earn herself a considerable income and that is a NO NO. It is a disgrace!

Really!! have you seen the setup have you seen the dogs, do you know these people????

Assuming again.

As I have said copious times, WE ARE ALL ASSUMING! I must say that I still DO NOT approve of LARGE SCALE BREEDING no matter what the set up! I do not approve of PUPPY FACTORIES as a rule. Havid said this does not mean that I agree with the current RSPCA stance.

Whatever happened to breeding simply to "better the breed?"

Edited November 1, 2010 by Moselle

[WreckitWhippet]

Shit if more than 20 dogs makes you a Puppy Mill my friend is f***ed she has closer to 50 dogs. I'm sure the assumptions can fly purely on that fact.

The OP said

Every two weeks for the past four years I've driven past this huge trailer-trash looking property, and they've had a big sign {like a church sign or roadworks sign} at the gate advertising a different breed of puppy and kitten every month or sooner.

Surely no proper breeder would have constantly changing breeds !!!!!! That is what clearly points to puppy-mill

My above friend has had two litters in the last few months, 1 Whippet and 1 Beagle and I think has another due in a month or so for yet another breed. All up she owns about 7-8 breeds - I don't see a problem with it.

50 dogs???? :p It is an impossibility to ensure that all 50 dogs are given proper care and invidual attention. Yes, that does constitute a puppy miller! She is breeding as a means to earn herself a considerable income and that is a NO NO. It is a disgrace!

Actually I've sent two of my dogs there. A much loved boy and a girl that was my pride and joy. I couldn;t be happier with the time and effort that goes into those dogs. The boy sleeps in the kennels, which is fine by me, that's where he was here. The girl, lives in the house and baby sits the smaller breeds.

This lady is so far from a puppy farmer that it's not funny. Immaculate house, dogs kennels, acres of grass and care that is second to none.

You should be very careful not to judge a breeder by their numbers.

[Moselle]

Some registered, ethical breeders have more than 1 breed.

For all we know, this person might actually be a registered breeder who takes great care of their dogs, shows, health tests etc, but just has a sign out front to advertise their puppies.

I'm not sure why there's only a 'slim chance' their dogs are well looked after.

The assumptions are absolutely astounding me!

I'm planning a litter of Stafford puppies.....I might just put a sign up outside my property. Then with my obvious trailer-trash, overgrown, weedy appearing property, I too can be reported to the RSPCA!!!

:p

Can we stick to the point at hand instead of twisting things around, as per usual? lol

Huge difference between you placing a sign outside your property once in a long while and these people who are obviously breeding various breeds of dogs and also on a very regular basis, don't you think?

Some of you can be so childish when trying to prove a point and the ability to twist things around is quite astounding, lol.

Why is it twisting things around?

I live on 25 acres in the country. Why SHOULDN'T I put up a sign advertising my kennel and stud and any puppies or foals that I may have for sale? And why shouldn't I leave it there? Would save it being put up and taken down all the time. That would take my time away from my family and my animals.

I have entire bitches in 3 breeds....but only 6 dogs in total. I've had bitches of two different breeds with litters of puppies at one time.....and I live in a property that spends more time being unkempt than it does botanical garden tidy....but do feel free to report me to the RSPCA. You wouldn't be the first, you probably won't be the last and I'm happy to say that I'm still around to talk about it AND keep breeding and owning my dogs!!

If I could be arsed, I would most definitely put up a sign. But if in doing so, I'm going to invite the ADDED unwelcome attention of do-gooders making assumptions based upon my sign and how my property looks, then that would most certainly make me think twice. And that is a pity because I can see that signage would be another useful tool that the reputable breeder could use to educate potential puppy purchasers.

I have never commented on the state of one's garden....I live on acreages myself and on a couple of occasions the grass was knee high that I had to have someone slash it! I couldn't care less if one's garden is not prize winning! My issue lies mainly with LARGE SCALE breeding. I am not really bothered by somebody putting signs up....I was mostly annoyed at reading that the poster had said that it looked as though these people were breeding ALL THE TIME AND VARIOUS BREEDS which sounded like puppy milling to me.

Edited November 1, 2010 by Moselle

[poodlefan]

Early dog breeders tended to have large kennels - lots of kennel hands, lots of ability to run on, select and cull from lines. There wouldn't be a modern breed in existence that probably hasn't been developed in this manner.

Numbers alone are not an indicator of good or bad breeding ethics. There are kennels O/S that continue that large size tradition and continue to reap the benefits.

Their dogs are not "pets" in the sense that many of us have pets. However they are well cared for, well exercised and valued as individuals in a way no puppy farmer ever values dogs.

Conversely, a small set up does not guarantee a higher standard of ethics or care. You have to judge these cases individually.

Edited November 1, 2010 by poodlefan

[Moselle]

Shit if more than 20 dogs makes you a Puppy Mill my friend is f***ed she has closer to 50 dogs. I'm sure the assumptions can fly purely on that fact.

The OP said

Every two weeks for the past four years I've driven past this huge trailer-trash looking property, and they've had a big sign {like a church sign or roadworks sign} at the gate advertising a different breed of puppy and kitten every month or sooner.

Surely no proper breeder would have constantly changing breeds !!!!!! That is what clearly points to puppy-mill

My above friend has had two litters in the last few months, 1 Whippet and 1 Beagle and I think has another due in a month or so for yet another breed. All up she owns about 7-8 breeds - I don't see a problem with it.

50 dogs???? :p It is an impossibility to ensure that all 50 dogs are given proper care and invidual attention. Yes, that does constitute a puppy miller! She is breeding as a means to earn herself a considerable income and that is a NO NO. It is a disgrace!

Actually I've sent two of my dogs there. A much loved boy and a girl that was my pride and joy. I couldn;t be happier with the time and effort that goes into those dogs. The boy sleeps in the kennels, which is fine by me, that's where he was here. The girl, lives in the house and baby sits the smaller breeds.

This lady is so far from a puppy farmer that it's not funny. Immaculate house, dogs kennels, acres of grass and care that is second to none.

You should be very careful not to judge a breeder by their numbers.

Where exactly did you send your dogs? are we talking about the same people that the poster is speaking of? If that is so, then I am relieved to hear that the dogs are well looked after! Even so though, I personally am of the belief that dogs should be a part of the family and not live their life in a prison cell.

[ellz]

:p I really and truly feel like I am chasing my tail here.

Moselle, I think you will find that NOBODY here likes or condones commercial breeders or commercial breeding facilities.

BUT....that is really beside the point.

The OP has made some snap judgements about a particular set of premises which may, or may not be, a commercial breeding facility. They made judgement about the condition of animals inside the property based SOLELY upon their OPINION of the external appearance of the premises.

It matters not whether the facility in question is breeding one litter of one breed or fifty litters of fifty breeds, what is being held up here for questioning is whether or not they have the right to report the facility to the RSPCA on numerous occasions based upon assumption and not what they have actually SEEN with their own eyes.

If the OP had posted here and said that they saw a sign which had changed numerous times for numerous breeds, and that the exterior of the property looked like crap and that they had actually been behind the gates and SAW evidence of neglect or mistreatment and then called the RSPCA on multiple occasions, that would have been an entirely different scenario altogether and in all likelihood, they would have received the pats on the back that they were apparently seeking.

But they didn't.....

[Moselle]

Some registered, ethical breeders have more than 1 breed.

For all we know, this person might actually be a registered breeder who takes great care of their dogs, shows, health tests etc, but just has a sign out front to advertise their puppies.

I'm not sure why there's only a 'slim chance' their dogs are well looked after.

The assumptions are absolutely astounding me!

I'm planning a litter of Stafford puppies.....I might just put a sign up outside my property. Then with my obvious trailer-trash, overgrown, weedy appearing property, I too can be reported to the RSPCA!!!

:p

Can we stick to the point at hand instead of twisting things around, as per usual? lol

Huge difference between you placing a sign outside your property once in a long while and these people who are obviously breeding various breeds of dogs and also on a very regular basis, don't you think?

Some of you can be so childish when trying to prove a point and the ability to twist things around is quite astounding, lol.

Isn't it just.

How can you say they are 'obviously breeding various breeds on a regular basis? You also said there's only a slim chance the dogs are being well cared for - all on the basis of a sign placed out the front of a house. Is that not twisting things?

How do you know this person isnt a rescuer, adveritising puppies they've saved from a puppy farm or pound?

Well, I did say repeatedly that if it had been me driving past I would have stopped to see the situation first hand before ringing the RSPCA. I also did admit to being presumptious, we are all presuming this, that and the other; you yourself can be regarded as "presumptious" in assuming that they may advertise puppies they've saved from a farm or pound, none of us know the real situation. I somehow doubt that they are advertising pups obtained via the pound though....

I am not basing my opinion merely because of a sign hung outside the property, it is also based upon the fact that they seem to forever be selling pups of various different breeds that raises doubts...basically, we are all going round in circles....they may be doing this, they may be doing that.....god knows what they're truly doing, we are all just guessing.

EXACTLY!! And until there is concrete EVIDENCE of animal mistreatment....the point is that it is completely over-the-top to be continually dobbing somebody in to the RSPCA!

OKAY, I HEAR YOU AND YES I AGREE! I dont think it is fair to be constantly barraging the RSPCA with phone calls....my only point was that I would have hoped for the RSPCA to at least contact the complainant and let them know that they had looked into the situation and that all was up to par.

[ellz]

Some registered, ethical breeders have more than 1 breed.

For all we know, this person might actually be a registered breeder who takes great care of their dogs, shows, health tests etc, but just has a sign out front to advertise their puppies.

I'm not sure why there's only a 'slim chance' their dogs are well looked after.

The assumptions are absolutely astounding me!

I'm planning a litter of Stafford puppies.....I might just put a sign up outside my property. Then with my obvious trailer-trash, overgrown, weedy appearing property, I too can be reported to the RSPCA!!!

:p

Can we stick to the point at hand instead of twisting things around, as per usual? lol

Huge difference between you placing a sign outside your property once in a long while and these people who are obviously breeding various breeds of dogs and also on a very regular basis, don't you think?

Some of you can be so childish when trying to prove a point and the ability to twist things around is quite astounding, lol.

Isn't it just.

How can you say they are 'obviously breeding various breeds on a regular basis? You also said there's only a slim chance the dogs are being well cared for - all on the basis of a sign placed out the front of a house. Is that not twisting things?

How do you know this person isnt a rescuer, adveritising puppies they've saved from a puppy farm or pound?

Well, I did say repeatedly that if it had been me driving past I would have stopped to see the situation first hand before ringing the RSPCA. I also did admit to being presumptious, we are all presuming this, that and the other; you yourself can be regarded as "presumptious" in assuming that they may advertise puppies they've saved from a farm or pound, none of us know the real situation. I somehow doubt that they are advertising pups obtained via the pound though....

I am not basing my opinion merely because of a sign hung outside the property, it is also based upon the fact that they seem to forever be selling pups of various different breeds that raises doubts...basically, we are all going round in circles....they may be doing this, they may be doing that.....god knows what they're truly doing, we are all just guessing.

EXACTLY!! And until there is concrete EVIDENCE of animal mistreatment....the point is that it is completely over-the-top to be continually dobbing somebody in to the RSPCA!

OKAY, I HEAR YOU AND YES I AGREE! I dont think it is fair to be constantly barraging the RSPCA with phone calls....my only point was that I would have hoped for the RSPCA to at least contact the complainant and let them know that they had looked into the situation and that all was up to par.

Dare I say "HALLELUJAH!!"?????

Moselle, it isn't necessarily going to happen. If you search back to last year, you will find a thread where I found a small dog on the side of the road and despite wanting to bring him home, I had unvaccinated puppies here so I took him to the local council depot and he went into their pens.

I was absolutely horrified by the state of those pens and now wish that I'd taken the risk and brought him home anyway. I was so appalled by the pens, that I rang the RSPCA and made a complaint. They told me that they would look into it and asked me if I wanted to be advised of the outcome. I told them I did. That was nearly 12 months ago now......I'm still waiting for the promised call.

Anybody who truly believes that the RSPCA will follow up on each and every situation, is living in la-la land. Just MHO.

[Moselle]

:p I really and truly feel like I am chasing my tail here.

Moselle, I think you will find that NOBODY here likes or condones commercial breeders or commercial breeding facilities.

BUT....that is really beside the point.

The OP has made some snap judgements about a particular set of premises which may, or may not be, a commercial breeding facility. They made judgement about the condition of animals inside the property based SOLELY upon their OPINION of the external appearance of the premises.

It matters not whether the facility in question is breeding one litter of one breed or fifty litters of fifty breeds, what is being held up here for questioning is whether or not they have the right to report the facility to the RSPCA on numerous occasions based upon assumption and not what they have actually SEEN with their own eyes.

If the OP had posted here and said that they saw a sign which had changed numerous times for numerous breeds, and that the exterior of the property looked like crap and that they had actually been behind the gates and SAW evidence of neglect or mistreatment and then called the RSPCA on multiple occasions, that would have been an entirely different scenario altogether and in all likelihood, they would have received the pats on the back that they were apparently seeking.

But they didn't.....

Ellz, as I have said before...and on the above post, perhaps the poster was under the mistaken impression that the RSPCA were not looking into the matter. The RSPCA have told her that they would have gotten in touch with her after their investigation but they never did....for whatever reason! If it is not customary for the RSPCA to do this then they should have said so from the onset!

[ellz]

Ellz, as I have said before...and on the above post, perhaps the poster was under the mistaken impression that the RSPCA were not looking into the matter. The RSPCA have told her that they would have gotten in touch with her after their investigation but they never did....for whatever reason! If it is not customary for the RSPCA to do this then they should have said so from the onset!

And as I said, they've said exactly the same thing to me.

But rather than complaining AGAIN and AGAIN, if it meant so much to the OP, they could have phoned the RSPCA and asked them for any information on the outcome of the FIRST complaint. At worst, they would be fobbed off, at best, they'd have peace of mind.

In my situation, I didn't bother following up because I had cause to re-visit the council pens again and they had been cleaned up in comparison to their state when I first saw them. Still not to MY satisfaction, but sufficiently.

HOWEVER, they have still not been covered and with summer coming on and supposedly enhanced Dog Management laws, if a roof doesn't go on them pretty darned smartly, I'll be writing another letter to the General Manager of the Council to ask why not and if it still doesn't happen, then I'll contact the RSPCA again.

[raz]

OKAY, I HEAR YOU AND YES I AGREE! I dont think it is fair to be constantly barraging the RSPCA with phone calls....my only point was that I would have hoped for the RSPCA to at least contact the complainant and let them know that they had looked into the situation and that all was up to par.

STOP YELLING!!! That's extremely rude and please stop doing it. The RSPCA doesn not have time to get back to every complainant and the poor woman on the phone just works in the call centre and says whatever she has to say to get off the bloody phone. Stop harping on and on about this, Moselle. The OP did the wrong thing - not the person on the end of the telephone

[WreckitWhippet]

Shit if more than 20 dogs makes you a Puppy Mill my friend is f***ed she has closer to 50 dogs. I'm sure the assumptions can fly purely on that fact.

The OP said

Every two weeks for the past four years I've driven past this huge trailer-trash looking property, and they've had a big sign {like a church sign or roadworks sign} at the gate advertising a different breed of puppy and kitten every month or sooner.

Surely no proper breeder would have constantly changing breeds !!!!!! That is what clearly points to puppy-mill

My above friend has had two litters in the last few months, 1 Whippet and 1 Beagle and I think has another due in a month or so for yet another breed. All up she owns about 7-8 breeds - I don't see a problem with it.

50 dogs???? :p It is an impossibility to ensure that all 50 dogs are given proper care and invidual attention. Yes, that does constitute a puppy miller! She is breeding as a means to earn herself a considerable income and that is a NO NO. It is a disgrace!

Actually I've sent two of my dogs there. A much loved boy and a girl that was my pride and joy. I couldn;t be happier with the time and effort that goes into those dogs. The boy sleeps in the kennels, which is fine by me, that's where he was here. The girl, lives in the house and baby sits the smaller breeds.

This lady is so far from a puppy farmer that it's not funny. Immaculate house, dogs kennels, acres of grass and care that is second to none.

You should be very careful not to judge a breeder by their numbers.

Where exactly did you send your dogs? are we talking about the same people that the poster is speaking of? If that is so, then I am relieved to hear that the dogs are well looked after! Even so though, I personally am of the belief that dogs should be a part of the family and not live their life in a prison cell.

The dogs ARE her family. It's what she does all day every day and the dogs would get more attention each and have a better lifestyle than most single dogs living in a back yard.

Sleeping in a kennels run isn't a prison cell.

[D & D]

Shit if more than 20 dogs makes you a Puppy Mill my friend is f***ed she has closer to 50 dogs. I'm sure the assumptions can fly purely on that fact.

The OP said

Every two weeks for the past four years I've driven past this huge trailer-trash looking property, and they've had a big sign {like a church sign or roadworks sign} at the gate advertising a different breed of puppy and kitten every month or sooner.

Surely no proper breeder would have constantly changing breeds !!!!!! That is what clearly points to puppy-mill

My above friend has had two litters in the last few months, 1 Whippet and 1 Beagle and I think has another due in a month or so for yet another breed. All up she owns about 7-8 breeds - I don't see a problem with it.

50 dogs???? It is an impossibility to ensure that all 50 dogs are given proper care and invidual attention. Yes, that does constitute a puppy miller! She is breeding as a means to earn herself a considerable income and that is a NO NO. It is a disgrace!

How dare you. You do not know this person, nor do you have any idea about where or how she and her dogs live.

Oh, you know the 'income' level her dogs bring in? She breeds for herself, not income. Her retired dogs stay with her (they make up a good percentage of those 50 dogs).

50 dogs???? ;) It is an impossibility to ensure that all 50 dogs are given proper care and invidual attention. Yes, that does constitute a puppy miller! She is breeding as a means to earn herself a considerable income and that is a NO NO. It is a disgrace!

Actually I've sent two of my dogs there. A much loved boy and a girl that was my pride and joy. I couldn;t be happier with the time and effort that goes into those dogs. The boy sleeps in the kennels, which is fine by me, that's where he was here. The girl, lives in the house and baby sits the smaller breeds.

This lady is so far from a puppy farmer that it's not funny. Immaculate house, dogs kennels, acres of grass and care that is second to none.

You should be very careful not to judge a breeder by their numbers.

Well said. I'd love to live there

[Pippa]

I did say that if I had driven by such a property I would have stopped to have a look to ensure that they did deserve reporting.

What makes you think you would have the right to inspect a breeder's property?

[-Megz-]

Shit if more than 20 dogs makes you a Puppy Mill my friend is f***ed she has closer to 50 dogs. I'm sure the assumptions can fly purely on that fact.

My above friend has had two litters in the last few months, 1 Whippet and 1 Beagle and I think has another due in a month or so for yet another breed. All up she owns about 7-8 breeds - I don't see a problem with it.

50 dogs???? It is an impossibility to ensure that all 50 dogs are given proper care and invidual attention. Yes, that does constitute a puppy miller! She is breeding as a means to earn herself a considerable income and that is a NO NO. It is a disgrace!

Thank you for proving what I thought of you - you have zero knowledge and have a poor attitude. I'm sure the personal recommendations that this lovely woman has from the people below mean nothing to you and you won't apologise but more full you for judging a book by the zero minimal cover.

Actually I've sent two of my dogs there. A much loved boy and a girl that was my pride and joy. I couldn;t be happier with the time and effort that goes into those dogs. The boy sleeps in the kennels, which is fine by me, that's where he was here. The girl, lives in the house and baby sits the smaller breeds.

This lady is so far from a puppy farmer that it's not funny. Immaculate house, dogs kennels, acres of grass and care that is second to none.

You should be very careful not to judge a breeder by their numbers.

Thank you but I forgot to tell you Pat's a little on the chubby side at the moment - really should get her back in show condition the fat cow

Shit if more than 20 dogs makes you a Puppy Mill my friend is f***ed she has closer to 50 dogs. I'm sure the assumptions can fly purely on that fact.

The OP said

Every two weeks for the past four years I've driven past this huge trailer-trash looking property, and they've had a big sign {like a church sign or roadworks sign} at the gate advertising a different breed of puppy and kitten every month or sooner.

Surely no proper breeder would have constantly changing breeds !!!!!! That is what clearly points to puppy-mill

My above friend has had two litters in the last few months, 1 Whippet and 1 Beagle and I think has another due in a month or so for yet another breed. All up she owns about 7-8 breeds - I don't see a problem with it.

50 dogs???? It is an impossibility to ensure that all 50 dogs are given proper care and invidual attention. Yes, that does constitute a puppy miller! She is breeding as a means to earn herself a considerable income and that is a NO NO. It is a disgrace!

Actually I've sent two of my dogs there. A much loved boy and a girl that was my pride and joy. I couldn;t be happier with the time and effort that goes into those dogs. The boy sleeps in the kennels, which is fine by me, that's where he was here. The girl, lives in the house and baby sits the smaller breeds.

This lady is so far from a puppy farmer that it's not funny. Immaculate house, dogs kennels, acres of grass and care that is second to none.

You should be very careful not to judge a breeder by their numbers.

Where exactly did you send your dogs? are we talking about the same people that the poster is speaking of? If that is so, then I am relieved to hear that the dogs are well looked after! Even so though, I personally am of the belief that dogs should be a part of the family and not live their life in a prison cell.

I went around there today actually - imagine my horror when I went into the main house yard and saw 8 dogs lounging around on their beds and the Whippet babies making trouble on the grass. I was even more shocked to go inside and see 6 gorgeous (well I think ones ugly but he bites me extra hard on the toe every time I say it to him) 4 week old Beagle babies chewing on my toes after dragging themselves away from the milkbar and the other token mum our old Pug girl. Then in the back half of the house was about 10 others running amok out the back. That only accounts for about half - the rest were moping in the kennels each run with it's own undercover and grassed area and most of them are in the end 4 runs which all go out to an acre each.

I know if reincarnation is possible I want to come back as a dog owned by someone half as terrible as this woman.

How dare you. You do not know this person, nor do you have any idea about where or how she and her dogs live.

Oh, you know the 'income' level her dogs bring in? She breeds for herself, not income. Her retired dogs stay with her (they make up a good percentage of those 50 dogs).

Actually I've sent two of my dogs there. A much loved boy and a girl that was my pride and joy. I couldn;t be happier with the time and effort that goes into those dogs. The boy sleeps in the kennels, which is fine by me, that's where he was here. The girl, lives in the house and baby sits the smaller breeds.

This lady is so far from a puppy farmer that it's not funny. Immaculate house, dogs kennels, acres of grass and care that is second to none.

You should be very careful not to judge a breeder by their numbers.

Well said. I'd love to live there

Thanks Megz

If she is breeding for money she's doing it wrong ;)

[Erny]

I have not read all of the posts in this thread, but just one point I'd like to mention. It is my own view but with some forethought, I don't think it is a wrong one (albeit that it is slightly off topic ;)). But I can stand to be corrected or at the very least acknowledge that everyone may not agree with me.

It's just that it seems to be a common place in these debates/arguments for it to almost be something to be embarrassed/ashamed of if someone should be making any money out of breeding their dogs.

Personally, I don't think that's such a bad thing. Why shouldn't someone make some money for the 'elbow grease' and effort that goes in to breeding, whelping and raising a bunch of pups to adoption age? Doesn't matter that the breeder might do it as a hobby. Doesn't matter that the breeder might do it just because he/she wants to obtain young stock to continue on with. There is still the effort of bringing the others into the world (not to mention the financial risks) and if a breeder can make financial profit out of it, then kudos to him/her.

Just my two cents.

Edited November 1, 2010 by Erny

[Liath]

Not a dig at you personally but I can't understand how people can say they want to be able to own a pet but no one should be allowed to breed them. If we make breeding so legally restrictive that only commercial farms can afford to breed or ban breeding all together where do you think your next dog will come from?

Recently hubby and I purchased a Show Puppy, my mother was horrified that we werent getting her desexed, she accused us of wanting to breed her to make money off her suffering and pain. In her eyes people who breed any dog deserve to be hung drawn and quartered. I asked her where do you think your pet came from??? A cornflake packet????? Needless to say she did not like my comment and I did try to get her to see reason but as hubby says...someone let the gate open in the top paddock and let all the sheep out. so you might as well bang your head against a brick wall for all the good my reasoning did. She still thinks that we will be churning out puppy litters galore and that hubby and i will be rich.

[oakway]

Shit if more than 20 dogs makes you a Puppy Mill my friend is f***ed she has closer to 50 dogs. I'm sure the assumptions can fly purely on that fact.

The OP said

Every two weeks for the past four years I've driven past this huge trailer-trash looking property, and they've had a big sign {like a church sign or roadworks sign} at the gate advertising a different breed of puppy and kitten every month or sooner.

Surely no proper breeder would have constantly changing breeds !!!!!! That is what clearly points to puppy-mill

My above friend has had two litters in the last few months, 1 Whippet and 1 Beagle and I think has another due in a month or so for yet another breed. All up she owns about 7-8 breeds - I don't see a problem with it.

50 dogs???? It is an impossibility to ensure that all 50 dogs are given proper care and invidual attention. Yes, that does constitute a puppy miller! She is breeding as a means to earn herself a considerable income and that is a NO NO. It is a disgrace!

Actually I've sent two of my dogs there. A much loved boy and a girl that was my pride and joy. I couldn;t be happier with the time and effort that goes into those dogs. The boy sleeps in the kennels, which is fine by me, that's where he was here. The girl, lives in the house and baby sits the smaller breeds.

This lady is so far from a puppy farmer that it's not funny. Immaculate house, dogs kennels, acres of grass and care that is second to none.

You should be very careful not to judge a breeder by their numbers.

Where exactly did you send your dogs? are we talking about the same people that the poster is speaking of? If that is so, then I am relieved to hear that the dogs are well looked after! Even so though, I personally am of the belief that dogs should be a part of the family and not live their life in a prison cell.

The dogs ARE her family. It's what she does all day every day and the dogs would get more attention each and have a better lifestyle than most single dogs living in a back yard.

Sleeping in a kennels run isn't a prison cell.

I'll back that all the way she has several of mine and better homes you could not find.

What's more she is welcome to more.

Sometimes I wonder if some of the people that post on these list have much knowledge about the breeding and rearing and kennel management that they make out they do.

Some of you people worry me because of what some of you write shows that you have little knowledge of kennel management and it makes me wonder if you are just as big a threat to the pure bred dog world as the RSPCA.

Maybe some of you should let us, the Pure Bred Breeders get on with the job of breeding our dogs or the purchase of your next Pure Bred dog may just dry up.

[Gayle.]

I have not read all of the posts in this thread, but just one point I'd like to mention. It is my own view but with some forethought, I don't think it is a wrong one (albeit that it is slightly off topic ). But I can stand to be corrected or at the very least acknowledge that everyone may not agree with me.

It's just that it seems to be a common place in these debates/arguments for it to almost be something to be embarrassed/ashamed of if someone should be making any money out of breeding their dogs.

Personally, I don't think that's such a bad thing. Why shouldn't someone make some money for the 'elbow grease' and effort that goes in to breeding, whelping and raising a bunch of pups to adoption age? Doesn't matter that the breeder might do it as a hobby. Doesn't matter that the breeder might do it just because he/she wants to obtain young stock to continue on with. There is still the effort of bringing the others into the world (not to mention the financial risks) and if a breeder can make financial profit out of it, then kudos to him/her.

Just my two cents.

:D

I agree with this, and I'd go so far as to say that if a breeder has litters of 6 or more pups, sells them for $1000-$1500 or more and isn't making a profit, then they either need to find another vet or healthier dogs to breed with. Because if all that money is being eaten up with veterinary expenses.....which seems to be the most given reason.....then those dogs should probably be neutered and the breeder maybe look further afield for breeding stock.

I have no idea why it's considered so bad to make a profit.......it used to be a hallmark of success. These days it seems to be a mark of shame.