Bitches Fighting

[Jed]

Bitches can live nicely together. I have had bitches intent on killing each other. I have some strong feelings about that. It doesn't happen any more - I have no idea what I would do with something like staffies, or terriers, but I don't have them.

I would never keep a dog which seriously attacked another, nor would I breed with her. My alpha bitches over the past 20 years have not been aggressive, just firm - one boxer girl would stand between any other dogs intending to squabble. I think one of the problems we have inherited is that people kept and bred with bitches who were keen on killing others. Because I have my own line of boxers, I've got rid of that. The cavs simply don't fight, and the cockers don't seem to either. Additionally, I've always had cockers, (cavs for 15 years) so I can't risk a boxer which wants to kill another bitch.

But - in the past, I've had bitches (sisters) who would continue until one fell over --- whacking them with things, and jamming buckets over their heads when they let go did work, but you had to be fast!!

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I think one of the problems we have inherited is that people kept and bred with bitches who were keen on killing others.

For me it is now very important to see how bitches behave with other bitches in a family home before deciding to use them for breeding or taking a puppy bitch to add to our program. It was difficult enough for us who are a bit hardened to all the distressing stuff that can happen with dogs, I have no idea how people who are pretty new to the whole thing cope. My guess is a lot of them don't and either way a dog or more than one dog dies.

Like you I don't have a breed where some DA is considered par for the course, so I am especially intolerant of it.

It's not that you can't have bitches together, we run two entire Saluki bitches together and apart from some seasonal narkiness they are fine. But to answer the OPs question, once you start having problems with serious fights between bitches you have a BIG program.

[LizT]

Not that horses are dogs mind you but in the interests of "female " dynamics......I had two mares kept side by side with only a hot wire tape and pigtail electric fence between them for years (on and off) sometimes they had proper fencing together but when I was moving house the night before I foolishly decided to take the white tape between them down to save myself time the next day.

Result..... a very violent encounter which I think would have been a fight to the death had I not driven them apart. Very dangerous and difficult to break up a fight. Surprising, as there was never any "face pulling' or "ears laid back" between them over the fence??

[newfsie]

I too have bitches (3) living together and I did have one bitch trying to kill our other bitch when she first came here. I was lucky enough to have a good trainer help me through all our problems and we do not keep ours apart. And Annabelle did some really severe damage on Tessa in the early days. but we worked through this and have trained together at keeping the peace.

Our trainer also told us that the biggest mistake we could make was to pull sides and to get angry at the more Alpha dog when a growling session occurs. So in the early days if the top female would growl at the lower Bitch we would actually tell off the lower bitch and make both of them come to us and do some very active off leash training.......together....... And as soon as they did what was asked we would reward. Of course this does not happen overnight and hubby and I did a lot of onleash and side by side training initially. Our trainer told us that a lot of bitch fights re-occur, because the owners take sides and reprimand the top dog very severely, only causing a larger rift. We have had peace at our place now for over two years.

Annabelle came into our household dog and people aggressive. we never avoided anything and worked our way through all of it. I am not saying it will never happen again, but we have learned some methods to deal with it hopefully.

I am lucky in the fact that hubby and I are both very involved with dog training and have had the most incredible dog trainer to help us..........

[Monah]

I have 2 desexed bitches.

When the second came as a pup, the other one did bite her 2 or 3 times, but she had a few issues anyway. It was still a bit of a shock as she had lived with a female cattle dog and male swf with no issues.

My second dog is an angel, so things have been very smooth for 4 years now

If she were a bit bossy like the other one, we would have had problems.

The 'biter' is very sweet too, but is fairly 'flighty' and nervy.

When I have my girlchilds BC, who is a very opinionated male!! the biter is an angel and he is the boss (which is his name too!)

So I guess she's not confident enough to be in charge, but also not the underling, I dont think she really knows what she is so she's flexible.

Mine have NEVER been left together if no one is home. They are in separate rooms and this works really well too as they are not too dependent on each other and used to being alone.

At night they are crated next to each other.

they play, wrestle, snuggle etc., but eat in separate rooms and I dont let my guard down.

when we first got the younger one, i either had someone watch them while I was in the shower , loo etc., or took the pup with me (couldn't trust her on her own, she chewed everything )

It was a matter of management and it all worked out very well.

our cattle dog (female) would babysit the pup when we were out in an empty and safe room, she was a rock!! complete angel the biter NEVER EVER tried a thing with her and worshiped her to bits.

I've had many many males together, all desexed, and all sorts of breeds and never had one single incident even with food etc. so it was quite a shock to me to have one dog bite another.!!!

[korbin13]

I've had a staffy and a staffy cross both desexed who were able to live together with no worries (only when they were pups and over food) but the staffy cross was about double the size of the staffy. There was some growling occasionally but the other would respect the growl and keep their distance. Maybe size makes a difference?

[ellz]

I've had a staffy and a staffy cross both desexed who were able to live together with no worries (only when they were pups and over food) but the staffy cross was about double the size of the staffy. There was some growling occasionally but the other would respect the growl and keep their distance. Maybe size makes a difference?

No, in your case if they are both desexed and have lived together since puppyhood, it is more than likely that they are accustomed to each other and have worked out their own pecking order.

Whether dogs will get on "nicely" depends upon so many factors. Age, breed and "normal" temperament being the top 3 IMO. Also important is the age in which they were integrated.

I have 6 dogs here, only 1 desexed (a GAP Greyhound). My two "warriors" who would kill each other in the blink of an eye are a 3 year old Stafford bitch and a 5 year old American Cocker bitch. Whatever else happens here, those two are NEVER allowed within eye or earshot of each other. The others are 2 entire males and an entire female puppy and everybody plays nicely together in any combination UNLESS the Stafford bitch and Am Cocker bitch are around and then nobody is particularly happy and everybody tends to spend a lot of time glancing fearfully over their shoulders.

[cowanbree]

I have many bitchs desexed and entire who have lived happily together without any huge issues but when they do fight bitchs bear grudges and can't be trusted again, they also tend to be nastier. I find the males can have a bit of a scrap and apart from a little grumbling can be running together a couple of minutes later. This is not the case with the bitchs

[ellz]

I have many bitchs desexed and entire who have lived happily together without any huge issues but when they do fight bitchs bear grudges and can't be trusted again, they also tend to be nastier. I find the males can have a bit of a scrap and apart from a little grumbling can be running together a couple of minutes later. This is not the case with the bitchs

Absolutely agree! In my experience, the boys tend to be more bluff and bluster. They like to be loud and visibly appear aggressive, but in many cases (not all, but MANY) it is just for show. Like idiots at a pub, lots of chest and shoulder action and noise to see if one will actually back down before things get too advanced. Not so with bitches who, in my experience, are sneaky and nasty and sly and LIGHTNING fast with very little actual noise to warn you. The boys seem to niggle a lot first, the bitches just get into it...hard and fast!!

[Aidan]

One thing I think about dogs, either sex, is that what we call "bearing a grudge" is probably not a metaphor we should take too literally. Humans can "bear grudges" because we can think in words, so we tend to have little stories in our heads about people. Dogs don't have these stories and they don't think in words (so far as we know), so when we're confronted with what appears to be a dog "bearing a grudge" we're not exactly sure what to do. By describing the problem in human terms, we tend to think of human solutions, or worse, human-solutions dressed up as doggy solutions.

When dogs fight they are doing what they have learned to do. There is an antecedent, a behaviour, and a consequence. There is also an emotional component underlying all of this. All of this is moderated by temperament, biological conditions, and environment.

Why do bitches seem to be more likely to fight to the death? There is an evolutionary advantage to be gained.

[ash&elar]

Growing up I was always told it was much better to have two bitches then two dogs, esp two entire males..... Though over the years I started to notice that it might not actually be the case and then after being a member of this forum I have read things to confirm my doubts.

Growing up my mum had midge our mini foxie girl and my aunty had a JRT they were similar ages with only a few weeks age gap, Midge was fine a typical terrier but not interested in fighting at all, the JRT would act nice while she thought people were watching but would bail midge up every chance she got, Midge still has a damaged tip of an ear from her. This dog was just a real BITCH and should of been pts way earlier than it eventually was.... It got into a litter or 2week pups (kids leaving a door or something open) and tried to kill them, one had a fractured skull and its eye nearly popped out of its socket, the rest all had neck wounds and were only saved because someone heard the racket of the mother (also a JRT) trying to fend off the nasty bitch.

My lab growing up was always top bitch with the extended family dogs but she never hurt anyone, one day the nasty JRT was giving midge a hard time in the yard and I happened to be at the window I seen Kara (lab) veer across the yard at the JRT flip her onto her back and then pretty much lay ontop of her put her muzzle to the side of her face/neck and eyeball her..... The JRT from memory never gave midge a hard time again while visiting.

When I was given a pair of shar peis from my aunty who had decided to end her time with that breed, the female bu was 2 1/2 and my lab I think 8, they got on fine for the first 6months to a yr, then the shar pei started wanting to be top bitch (I think she could sense the lab getting weak in old age) I caught the pei one day rushing kara's kennel and dragging her out of it by the ruff of her neck and just start mauling her, luckily I was there and lucky all I had to do to call her off was to yell her name and she stopped, only ever one other fight where the pei managed to get where the lab was at night time and that woke me up during the night in pitch black i had to follow to noise but once again managed to stop the fight with noise alone, I found the lab and brought her in for the night, she had bite marks all around her neck down her from legs and down one of her back legs, when it got light I went out to check the pei being sure she would be fine, but indefence the lab had ripped open all the soft tissue around her muzzle, alot of cleaning to keep out infection but they both healed fine.

We managed it for a while, Ide have the shar peis penned in the corner of the yard and let the lab out for a run around the yard but bu would get so frustrated that she couldnt get to the lab she would then attack the male shar pei and hand off his face....

Kara was pts only after about 10months of this from health issues and not having quality of life from her pain RIP beautiful girl.

Now I have julie a 2 1/2 yr old std poodle bitch, Midge the 14 yr old mini foxie bitch, Cindy the 8month whippet bitch, Fez the 8month old toy poodle dog and soon to be a toy poodle bitch pup running together, Midge sleeps most of the time in her old age but we watch her and julie together as midge is a grump now and will growl and snap if annoyed and I do not think Julie as a dominant bitch will tolerate it.

Cindy is not interested in being dominate as yet but she is still a pup, same as fez though as fez matures he is beginning to tell cindy off when she is too rough or annoys him, the pup I have coming is the best show prospect girl with a really outgoing personality but is as yet only 5 weeks old so will be talking to the breeder in the coming weeks to get an idea of her behavior within the litter.

It would be the new pup and Julie I would have to be careful about if the new bitch is pushy. But I intend on having the yard devided when we finally buy our own place for the lil ones anyway. And they are all crate trained.

[Bilbo Baggins]

We've experienced it, and the only reason the bitch being attacked isn't dead is because we were around to intervene.

Same here - gives me the shivers thinking about the fight and what could have been. People who talk about breaking up fights with buckets of water obviously have never seen bitches fight to kill.

And you have the scars to prove.

[Bilbo Baggins]

I know of a lady with cavs who let them out to wee before bed time. Called them back in but one was missing.

Out with a torch and found her ripped to shreds was pregnant. All had never shown any signs before.

[pebbles]

Years ago I had a 'fight to the death' between two Afghan bitches, both about 3 years old. I had 5 Affies then and they had all lived together for ages, best of friends. Fortunately I was home at the time and was able to break it up then spent the rest of the day at the Vets.

From that time I've always had runs/crates etc. for each dog and I've never left two together regardless of sex when I'm not home. Once was enough for me

[Quickasyoucan]

I have many bitchs desexed and entire who have lived happily together without any huge issues but when they do fight bitchs bear grudges and can't be trusted again, they also tend to be nastier. I find the males can have a bit of a scrap and apart from a little grumbling can be running together a couple of minutes later. This is not the case with the bitchs

Absolutely agree! In my experience, the boys tend to be more bluff and bluster. They like to be loud and visibly appear aggressive, but in many cases (not all, but MANY) it is just for show. Like idiots at a pub, lots of chest and shoulder action and noise to see if one will actually back down before things get too advanced. Not so with bitches who, in my experience, are sneaky and nasty and sly and LIGHTNING fast with very little actual noise to warn you. The boys seem to niggle a lot first, the bitches just get into it...hard and fast!!

So true, sounds like my boy in the couple of scuffles he had at the dog park when young. Also as soon as it stopped he used to lose interest in the other dog couldn't care less whether he was still there or not. Pretty much all talk and no action.

Had a foster bitch once though and she bullied my boy from day one she was so much more intense in the way she did it as well.

[Little Gifts]

I have 2 desexed SBT bitches. Once the youngest one hit sexual maturity she kept challenging the older girl. Their last fight was only about a year ago and even though the older girl is now over 16 the young one still never got the upper hand on her. It is the worst experience trying to seperate 2 dogs neither who are prepared to give in. I just crash in a heap afterwards and have had some finger injuries from trying to seperate them. As we have 3 bitches in this house we got a behaviouralist in and we are fully aware of the signs of a fight from the young one and get her under control immediately. Injuries since we had the behaviouralist in have been very minimal but before then they would both have pulpy lips and ears from biting and shaking each other. Just awful. And they are fine together most of the time - they groom each other and sleep together but if the young one thinks the old one is getting something she isn't she gets on the defensive and it can be on. She has tried the same thing with the husky for the same reasons but with all the hair she never gets a hold and the husky just retreats to safety so we get things under control very quickly.

I have to wonder what role us humans play in this though because we have never come home to evidence of a scrap. Surely if it was a straight dominance issue they would fight while we were absent as well?

[brittanygirl]

There is nothing more heartbreaking than coming home to find one of your dogs dead and that it was one of your other dogs that did it. No warning signs, no squabbles, they even used to sleep together. I could understand if there had of been conflict between them, but they had lived in harmony for 4 years.

[Nekhbet]

Why do bitches seem to be more likely to fight to the death? There is an evolutionary advantage to be gained.

of course there is. In the wild not all bitches become pregnant and cycle together playing happy families. Only the strongest bitch goes on with the top male to make a litter. Males, they come and go, their fights will usually be a lot of BS and posturing (my two decided to fight, it was the dumbest fight they just latched on and went MUUUUUUUUUUUUUUM HELP WE DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO NOW!) whereas my entire bitch, if she takes a disliking to another dog that's the end of it. That dog must be subdued by all means, she's extremely dominant and i'm not stupid enough to add another mildly dominant dog to the mix. A bitch is the carrier of the new generation, she will fight harder then a male will when it comes to superiority. We put dogs in an artificial environment and have multiple dogs that would naturally have been far from each other contained together. Then when they rip each other to shreds we wonder why.

All I can say is that if you want multiple bitches, and have them reasonably evenly matched, build yourself kennel runs.

[Zhou Xuanyao]

One thing I think about dogs, either sex, is that what we call "bearing a grudge" is probably not a metaphor we should take too literally. Humans can "bear grudges" because we can think in words, so we tend to have little stories in our heads about people. Dogs don't have these stories and they don't think in words (so far as we know), so when we're confronted with what appears to be a dog "bearing a grudge" we're not exactly sure what to do. By describing the problem in human terms, we tend to think of human solutions, or worse, human-solutions dressed up as doggy solutions.

I would regard this paragraph as very good advice.

When you start anthropomorphizing you could be setting yourself up to fail, even when you think its just a minor unimportant comment.

[OSoSwift]

My two did, were seperated and luckily (I didn't think so at the time) my older bitch was muzzled. She wore a basket muzzle as she tried to eat everything and I mean everything after her 3rd GDV surgery. She wore a basket muzzle to run around on the 5 acres. She also had her coat on.

The young bitch was trying to throw her on her back,but the coat kept moving and old bitch had her legs splayed so stopped herself being thrown over. The basket muzzle stopped her from actually being able to bite the young bitch and make the fight escalate.

The old bitch had multiple holes through her lips, head and ears, her coat was torn up over her neck and shoulders. She had blood going everywhere. The young bitch was of course not harmed. As much as I was upset because the old girl couldn't defend herself (even though she was trying) I really think it saved her life.

The fight was over in minutes and I was shocked at how much damage was inflicted in such a short time. I was also lucky my OH was home as he got to them before I did, so the fight was stopped sooner.

They were never left together when they were not supervised. The old bitch was desexed, the young one was entire. They were 8 and 2.