2 Dogs Fighting

[persephone]

The short & sharp & shiny version ,sorry.

These dogs can not be run together.

the situation should be assessed by a competent behaviourist ...and you then need to act on their recommendations.

This behaviour may never be 'cured'.

You may well not be able to responsibly rehome your bulldog.An aggressive bull breed is not everyone's ideal.

[Staranais]

Thank you very much for the advise and i will be sure to talk and see a behaviourist

I am glad.

But, one further warning, sorry. There are amazing behaviourists out there, but there are shoddy ones too. If you just pick one out of the phonebook you can end up totally wasting your money (I know - I've done it!) I'd suggest you ask for recommendations, perhaps in the training forum. Hopefully someone can recommend a competent behaviourist that is close to you.

[Subzero12]

What do you mean you've tried separation? Have you seen a behaviourist?

If the bulldog begins to shows signs of aggression towards the other dog we separete them - also we sepearte them when they are eating (which is normal) We have not seen a behaviourist - and i dont have the belief that a dog therapist can help resolve aggression issues. I guess i may be naive in that area but i have never heard of it actually working?

So essentially rather than trying everything possible to resolve the issue you are going to pass the buck to someone else by rehoming one of the dogs....

You do realise that if the new home ends up with a DA dog they will more than likely just have the dog PTS.

As i said in an earlier post NO I AM NOT TRYING TO "PASS" my dog onto anyone else because she has a few problems. Hence the reason i logged on here to get professional advice and advice from others that have been through the same thing i dont see that as "passing" on my dog i see that as taking a proactive approach to helping my dog. I absolutely adore my Bulldog and will try anything which is why i logged on here!!!

[Nekhbet]

there is two options

permanent separation and call an experienced behaviourist. Apart from that there is little for us to tell you over the net when the behaviour has escalated to this level.

[Tapferhund]

Sorry subzero but you would think you would have learned your lesson after the FIRST fight ! Why would you try and have these two bitches (of those breeds) together again after such a serious FIRST fight? You were only asking for trouble......especially as one is a American Bulldog..a breed that IMO is the "new" pitbull about to flood the market ..selling to tough dog seeking yobbo's here in Australia. Not saying you're a yobbo........but why on earth would you or anyone want such a breed when there are so many NICE breeds available?

I suppose I will get flamed for that comment but the fact is I have come across at least half a dozen of that breed in the last 12 months and NOT ONE has had good stable temperament or character. The breed is a disaster waiting to happen....as you have found out through th fight you had on your hands.

JMO.

Edited October 26, 2010 by Tapferhund

[Crisovar]

I have lived with 2 dogs that hated each other, they were NEVER allowed to be together EVER, and we kept them separate for 12 years until one of them passed away last year. It was hard work but it was the only way we could keep them both.

Totally separate, a secure escape proof dog run that one had to be locked in whilst the other was in the yard. One is the house, one outside, one locked up one out loose. Crate training made separation inside easy. We just played musical dogs. It was quite simply not worth the risk of a serious fight that ended up in tragedy. I must add that both these dogs were totally reliable with other dogs and children etc. They simply hated each other. Keeping them apart is the only way to ensure you have no accidents.

If you cannot manage them safely and that means that everyone in the household has to be on the same page, then one of the dogs needs to be rehomed or pts.

[Tapferhund]

To rehome is to duckshove the problem onto someone else. Better and safer to have a dog like that pts.

[W Sibs]

I have lived with 2 dogs that hated each other, they were NEVER allowed to be together EVER, and we kept them separate for 12 years until one of them passed away last year. It was hard work but it was the only way we could keep them both.

Totally separate, a secure escape proof dog run that one had to be locked in whilst the other was in the yard. One is the house, one outside, one locked up one out loose. Crate training made separation inside easy. We just played musical dogs. It was quite simply not worth the risk of a serious fight that ended up in tragedy. I must add that both these dogs were totally reliable with other dogs and children etc. They simply hated each other. Keeping them apart is the only way to ensure you have no accidents.

If you cannot manage them safely and that means that everyone in the household has to be on the same page, then one of the dogs needs to be rehomed or pts.

Sorry OT but... how stressful your home must of been... or did you end up getting use to it?

but i admire your dedication to keep both dogs though

[RottnBullies]

I will also suggest for a total separation of the dogs.

I have 4 bitches with one who doesn't get on with the rest of them, so it's a crate and rotate system here or 1 in 3 out. It's a lot of hard work and you are always on your guard as you just can't afford to slip. I love them all dearly so re homing was not an option I wanted, even as It seemed the easier way out

I don't see a problem with re homing as long as new owners are fully aware and capable to handle a DA dog, although you'll find that there aren't many out there who want to take on that responsibility

Best wishes and I do hope you can work something out as It's not an easy situation

[Aidan3]

Sorry OT but... how stressful your home must of been... or did you end up getting use to it?

I'm not Crisovar, but I actually felt some relief when I decided to separate my dogs and made appropriate arrangements to do so. My dogs are much happier, no tension, no wasted energy trying to avoid trouble. Now when they are together they get along very well because they are only ever together when they are doing something I have conditioned them to do together. Dietary changes have also helped. Well worth seeing someone who can offer practical advice tailored to a particular situation.

[Aidan3]

Sorry subzero but you would think you would have learned your lesson after the FIRST fight !

I'm not sure if you've been in this position, Tapferhund, but there are all sorts of reasons why people put their dogs in this position and I don't think it's at all unreasonable to make a mistake. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If you read the original post, subzero did make changes by feeding the dogs separately. Turns out it wasn't enough in this case, which is a shame.

[Crisovar]

I have lived with 2 dogs that hated each other, they were NEVER allowed to be together EVER, and we kept them separate for 12 years until one of them passed away last year. It was hard work but it was the only way we could keep them both.

Totally separate, a secure escape proof dog run that one had to be locked in whilst the other was in the yard. One is the house, one outside, one locked up one out loose. Crate training made separation inside easy. We just played musical dogs. It was quite simply not worth the risk of a serious fight that ended up in tragedy. I must add that both these dogs were totally reliable with other dogs and children etc. They simply hated each other. Keeping them apart is the only way to ensure you have no accidents.

If you cannot manage them safely and that means that everyone in the household has to be on the same page, then one of the dogs needs to be rehomed or pts.

Sorry OT but... how stressful your home must of been... or did you end up getting use to it?

but i admire your dedication to keep both dogs though

Once you have a plan and put it all into place it is much less stressful than waiting for the next explosion.

For us managing animals is a way of life, it is what we do. Founder prone ponies on limited grazing, bitches in season, dogs that don't like each other, animals with special diets it is all part of the day to day routine.

Small price to pay for the pleasure they give.

[RottnBullies]

Sorry subzero but you would think you would have learned your lesson after the FIRST fight ! Why would you try and have these two bitches (of those breeds) together again after such a serious FIRST fight? You were only asking for trouble......especially as one is a American Bulldog..a breed that IMO is the "new" pitbull about to flood the market ..selling to tough dog seeking yobbo's here in Australia. Not saying you're a yobbo........but why on earth would you or anyone want such a breed when there are so many NICE breeds available?

I suppose I will get flamed for that comment but the fact is I have come across at least half a dozen of that breed in the last 12 months and NOT ONE has had good stable temperament or character. The breed is a disaster waiting to happen....as you have found out through th fight you had on your hands.

JMO.

Nothing but a pointless post of no help to OP what so ever!

There are so many NICE breeds available,

and that Is according to who???

You!......

But off course half a dozen examples of the breed Is enough for you make such a harsh judgment on them! an ENTIRE breed!!

[megan_]

What do you mean you've tried separation? Have you seen a behaviourist?

If the bulldog begins to shows signs of aggression towards the other dog we separete them - also we sepearte them when they are eating (which is normal) We have not seen a behaviourist - and i dont have the belief that a dog therapist can help resolve aggression issues. I guess i may be naive in that area but i have never heard of it actually working?

I have seen a behaviourist and my dog is a different dog. Her issue wasn't aggression it was extreme fear - fear to even look at a human. She is now a happy little dog who even does agility (training). A behaviourist isn't a dog therapist. They are there to tell YOU what you need to do to manage your dogs behaviour.

[AmandaJ]

What do you mean you've tried separation? Have you seen a behaviourist?

If the bulldog begins to shows signs of aggression towards the other dog we separete them - also we sepearte them when they are eating (which is normal) We have not seen a behaviourist - and i dont have the belief that a dog therapist can help resolve aggression issues. I guess i may be naive in that area but i have never heard of it actually working?

I have seen a behaviourist and my dog is a different dog. Her issue wasn't aggression it was extreme fear - fear to even look at a human. She is now a happy little dog who even does agility (training). A behaviourist isn't a dog therapist. They are there to tell YOU what you need to do to manage your dogs behaviour.

Correct and agreed....which in my case is why he is back with his breeder. My dogs are house/yard dogs - they run together. The pack order must be reinforced so there is no confusion for them. It was hard for me - he was my first show dog and I titled him...I love that boy...but when he started attacking the others - I wouldn't stand for it. Understanding why and how to modify it was easy - re-training him was easy - separating them was NOT!

[fainty_girl]

Obviously, like others have mentioned they should be separated...it is obviously not safe for the dogs to be together (for the dogs, and you and your husband!). I'm sure there are plenty of people here who could recommend some decent professionals in your area for you to get help too.

[Sandra777]

We have tried training & seperation and nothing seems to work.

You obviously have not "tried separation" or there would never have been a second fight, let alone a third. Separate these bitches PERMANENTLY.

Personally I think it about shows you the ethics of the person who sold you the American Bulldog - most people I know won't sell a second animal of the same sex into the situation you describe and would have either told you to buy a dog or not sold you a puppy at all.

[AmandaJ]

We have tried training & seperation and nothing seems to work.

You obviously have not "tried separation" or there would never have been a second fight, let alone a third. Separate these bitches PERMANENTLY.

Personally I think it about shows you the ethics of the person who sold you the American Bulldog - most people I know won't sell a second animal of the same sex into the situation you describe and would have either told you to buy a dog or not sold you a puppy at all.

Correct - PURE separation will stop the fighting...It will not fix the problem. It does not matter what the breed is. I had a very enlightening conversation with a psychologist a few weeks ago on behavioral psychology. Human psychologists believe that behavior is 100% genetic - it is only our ability for cognitive thinking that alters our reaction to a situation.

[juice]

This will get worse.

It will not fix itself.

One will die if you do nothing and it happens while you are out, yes it will then be your fault.

Is she aggressive to all dogs, or just the other bitch?

Yes,you were trying to pass the buck, in your first post you said you needed to rehome her.

Step up and do something about it, saying you love her like a child isn't going to fix anything.

Aggression is a behavoir, so why don't you think it will help.

Too many good dogs die everyday that rescue can't help, no one will take on a DA one. :D

You probably got the same good advice the first time, hope you listen this time.

[persephone]

I have just re read your post, subzero.. :D

It has come to the point know where i have no other choice but to try to re-home our bulldog as we have had the older dog for longer and she is more my husbands and step-sons dog. Whereas the bulldog is mine. But at the same time i am worried about her being with another family and maybe "flipping" on them due to her sometimes irrational nature.

The bit I have put in italics is a real concern.

You are very right in worrying about rehoming her.

Please seek out a good behaviourist who will explain to you exactly what is happening with your dog/s...then you will have to decide which course to take.