2 Dogs Fighting

[Subzero12]

:confused:Hi There,

I logged in about 5 months ago as my 2 dogs had had a massive fight. Since then they have had 2 more significant fights which have resulted in vet visits and injuries to myself and my husband trying to break them up (silly i know but as we know it's hard to watch your dogs fight). The last fight was a couple of days ago and it took the both my hubby and me to pull them of eachother. We tried water distraction and grabbing there hind legs but it was harder to do then the previous fights.

Our youngest dog is a Purebred American Bulldog our Oldest is a Staffy x Rotty both desexed bitches. The fights are created by the Bulldog. The first time it happened was over food but we since then feed them in different areas. The bulldog is constantly annoying and hounding our older dog until eventually she turns and snaps and all out war breaks out. Our older dog tries to walk away but the Bulldog just does not give up and keeps attacking. Also the bulldog tries to be the dominant dog by humping her & trying to stand on her back. We always stop this bahaviour when we are there to see it and enforce the household rules.

We have tried training & seperation and nothing seems to work. Our bulldog also can be so very timid and scares very easily which baffles me as we have had her since 6 weeks old and she has NEVER been abused only loved it's the total opposite of what a Bulldogs behaviour should be like. She is a very Temperamental dog but i love her like my own child. If she does now know you she will bark at you and it does take her a while to warm up but as soon as you give her a belly rub she goes all sooky. It has come to the point know where i have no other choice but to try to re-home our bulldog as we have had the older dog for longer and she is more my husbands and step-sons dog. Whereas the bulldog is mine. But at the same time i am worried about her being with another family and maybe "flipping" on them due to her sometimes irrational nature. After the first 2 fights we have tried everything and the 3rd fight was the worst and i worry that if the hubby is not around i can not pull them of each and if we are not there then one will surely die.

I would much rather her go to a good home but it seems the places i have called will not take her due to her breed and nature. She really is a beautiful dog that needs a lot of loving (which she gets) but it seems she also needs to be the only dog in the home. Does anyone have any other info or help they could provide? Thanks

[W Sibs]

Could it be you got her at 6 weeks of age, she doesn't know how to properly interact with other dogs because she was taken away from her litter at a very young age?

How old is your bulldog now?

Have you called in a trainer/behaviourist to come in and have a look on how you can solve this issues?

Edited October 26, 2010 by CW EW

[Staranais]

You probably won't run into much luck rehoming a dog aggressive dog, although hopefully someone can help. It takes a dedicated & experienced home to safely manage a seriously DA dog, and they're few and far between.

Have you tried getting a pro behaviourist in to assess the situation? If you let people know where you are, perhaps someone could suggest someone reputable to help.

I would not leave them together when I was out, or you may well come home to a dead dog oneday. I'd divide the yard, leave one in the house & one outside, or crate & rotate them.

Good luck.

[Cosmolo]

What do you mean you've tried separation? Have you seen a behaviourist?

[Simply Grand]

I'm definitely no expert and others who know more will no doubt give you some good advice, but here's my thoughts...

Have you had a good behaviourist come and work with you? I think you need more than just the usual obedience training. You may have already tried this, but it may be worth trying someone else, I'm sure people here can recommend someone good in your area...

It may be worth having her hormone levels checked. There is a female, desexed dog in my obedience class who is a lovely dog but has problems with fear agression and can get very worked up, for seemingly no reason. The instructor suggested that since being desexed, she may have excess testosterone which makes her aggressive.

You mentioned separating them not having worked, but apparently they are not separated now, as they do get to each other. You may have to keep them in separate runs/areas permanently and spend time with them separately...

Most importantly, like you've said, rehoming her as she is could be dangerous, so if you do rehome her, make sure you still get a good behaviourist to work with her, or rehome her with an expert who understands the issues.

Good luck, I really hope you can work it out

[AmandaJ]

Take both dogs to a behaviorist. Believe me - it's worth the money.

[Subzero12]

Could it be you got her at 6 weeks of age, she doesn't know how to properly interact with other dogs because she was taken away from her litter at a very young age?

How old is your bulldog now?

Have you called in a trainer/behaviourist to come in and have a look on how you can solve this issues?

I have also thought that as well about the age as she even has troubles eating properly and drinking ! Subzero (bulldog) turned one last week and ApachCat our staffy x is 18 months

We have had a trainer but not a behaviourist as they dont gurantee results and i wonder if a behaviourist can really "fix" aggression

[Nekhbet]

The bulldog is constantly annoying and hounding our older dog until eventually she turns and snaps and all out war breaks out. Our older dog tries to walk away but the Bulldog just does not give up and keeps attacking. Also the bulldog tries to be the dominant dog by humping her & trying to stand on her back. We always stop this bahaviour when we are there to see it and enforce the household rules

after fight 1 and seeing this behaviour why did you continue to have them within reach of each other? Two bitches once they start, especially the breeds you have, will not stop.

your american bulldog sounds like it has bad nerve and it was taken from its mother way too young. Sounds like it also has issues recognising and showing normal dog behaviour and body language which is common in animals taken so young. You need to get an experienced behaviourist in who has handled these behaviours before and get their help, this is not something you do alone. You have two very strong animals and as such need to provide management measures for them.

You should consider your bulldog dog unfriendly when it comes to rehoming. The only responsible owner would be someone with NO other dogs, experience in aggression and dogs with poor/weak temperaments and large breeds. Option 2 if a home fails is to take her to the vet to be euthanised. I know it sounds harsh but truely experienced homes can be few and far between especially for dogs that have proven themselves fighters and caused damage to people and animals.

eta true aggression is not a fix, it is about management. Your dog is actively engaging another dog to harrass it and then fight it. It will always be about management especially since her critical period it totally out the window.

Also I dont think anyone will guarentee results. I wouldnt either. We're not talking about training your dog to hold a cookie on its nose, we're now delving deep into the primal instincts of the dog. It also comes down to genetics, previous experience, behaviours and especially the capabilities of the owners as to how far a dog can go.

Edited October 26, 2010 by Nekhbet

[Cosmolo]

There are plenty of exceptional behaviourists who do not offer guarantees. They don't offer guarantees because (a) dogs are not machines that can be programmed and (b) the behaviourist is not the only input into the dog- the owner significantly influences the behaviour of any dog.

What nekhbet said.

[WreckitWhippet]

Keep them seperated at all times. They are close in age, the same sex and bitches. Bitches can and will fight to the death.

With help you may get them to a point where you can manage them, but you are going to have to be vigilant for the rest of the bitches lives, cock it up and chances are they will fight again.

[Subzero12]

What do you mean you've tried separation? Have you seen a behaviourist?

If the bulldog begins to shows signs of aggression towards the other dog we separete them - also we sepearte them when they are eating (which is normal) We have not seen a behaviourist - and i dont have the belief that a dog therapist can help resolve aggression issues. I guess i may be naive in that area but i have never heard of it actually working?

[sas]

Keep them seperated at all times. They are close in age, the same sex and bitches. Bitches can and will fight to the death.

With help you may get them to a point where you can manage them, but you are going to have to be vigilant for the rest of the bitches lives, cock it up and chances are they will fight again.

+ 1

[Cosmolo]

There are many members here who would disagree with you (after their own personal experience) with regards to a professional behaviourists abilities in resolving aggression issues in conjunction with an owner. No one is suggesting its a cure all and will make the dogs best friends but it can't be any worse than the current escalation that you have on your hands right now. What have you got to lose?

[Nekhbet]

If the bulldog begins to shows signs of aggression towards the other dog we separete them - also we sepearte them when they are eating (which is normal) We have not seen a behaviourist - and i dont have the belief that a dog therapist can help resolve aggression issues. I guess i may be naive in that area but i have never heard of it actually working?

You dont wait to see signs of aggression, you permanently separate. If it's not one thing tomorrow they will find something new to posture about, or worst, when you're not home.

What do you mean by a dog therapist? A behaviourist delves down to the behavioural cause of problems. Reality is not all dogs are fixable, or some people expect we snap our fingers and their dog will never misbehave again. Again, when dealing with aggression, and I mean true aggression, sometimes you can manage it, other times it's not fixable at all. Thats reality. The fact you have not tried an experienced professional and would instead prefer to pass on a problem dog to someone else is worrying.

[Staranais]

Since you say the bulldog is purebred, I'm wondering have you tried contacting your bulldog's breeder to see if they have recommendations or if they could help with a rehome?

But otherwise, I'd say your options are to keep the dogs separated permanently (all the time), try the behaviourist, or euth the bulldog.

I think your chances of finding a rescue who will take a DA bulldog are pretty slim. Not that many people have the skills to safely handle a huge DA dog, and it's irresponsible to rehome her to someone without a good deal of experience that knows exactly what they're getting themselves into.

[WreckitWhippet]

There are many members here who would disagree with you (after their own personal experience) with regards to a professional behaviourists abilities in resolving aggression issues in conjunction with an owner. No one is suggesting its a cure all and will make the dogs best friends but it can't be any worse than the current escalation that you have on your hands right now. What have you got to lose?

add to that, if the OP is considering rehoming one of the dogs, then a professional assessment would also be helpful, so that any potential new owner is informed about the issues they may be taking on.

[Winterpaws]

What do you mean you've tried separation? Have you seen a behaviourist?

If the bulldog begins to shows signs of aggression towards the other dog we separete them - also we sepearte them when they are eating (which is normal) We have not seen a behaviourist - and i dont have the belief that a dog therapist can help resolve aggression issues. I guess i may be naive in that area but i have never heard of it actually working?

So essentially rather than trying everything possible to resolve the issue you are going to pass the buck to someone else by rehoming one of the dogs....

You do realise that if the new home ends up with a DA dog they will more than likely just have the dog PTS.

[W Sibs]

I think Behaviourist is your last option in this situation though... they might not cure an aggressive dog, but they will help you manage/find a situation to make things easier for you. That's better than nothing IMO

They are both so young... it's kinda not fair to let them live how they are living now. And, it's not safe for you and your family either.

[Simply Grand]

I think Behaviourist is your last option in this situation though... they might not cure an aggressive dog, but they will help you manage/find a situation to make things easier for you. That's better than nothing IMO

They are both so young... it's kinda not fair to let them live how they are living now. And, it's not safe for you and your family either.

Exactly! I can't see that you really have any other option if you want to improve Subzero's behaviour and give her a chance at life, either with you or somewhere else.

Even with a behaviourist, and certainly in the meantime, you need to keep them separated all the time. By the time she starts showing aggression it's too late, as you've experienced, it WILL escalate. The times you've caught it you've been very lucky. And when you're not there, you can't possible stop them - for all you know they fight the whole time you're away

[Subzero12]

If the bulldog begins to shows signs of aggression towards the other dog we separete them - also we sepearte them when they are eating (which is normal) We have not seen a behaviourist - and i dont have the belief that a dog therapist can help resolve aggression issues. I guess i may be naive in that area but i have never heard of it actually working?

You dont wait to see signs of aggression, you permanently separate. If it's not one thing tomorrow they will find something new to posture about, or worst, when you're not home.

What do you mean by a dog therapist? A behaviourist delves down to the behavioural cause of problems. Reality is not all dogs are fixable, or some people expect we snap our fingers and their dog will never misbehave again. Again, when dealing with aggression, and I mean true aggression, sometimes you can manage it, other times it's not fixable at all. Thats reality. The fact you have not tried an experienced professional and would instead prefer to pass on a problem dog to someone else is worrying.

I do not want to "pass" on my dog i am merely looking for advice from experienced people and take everything that you and others have said on this. I have never believe in a behaviourist for agression but if people think it can actually help then i am willing to try anything as i LOVE my dog and am not the kind of person who gives up on an animal. I am extremely passionate about both of my dogs and will do anything to keep them . Thank you very much for the advise and i will be sure to talk and see a behaviourist