Help!

[Bundyburger]

I'll try the 'look for rain', Ive been pretty lucky with her so far shes not very excitable, shes very placid and if she gets really excited she does a little jump and run which is pretty cute lol but she doesnt jump on me or seth anymore, its getting guests to lay down the law with her too instead of saying 'oh shes so cute and shes just a baby and wants a cuddle' bla bla bla drives me mad. Ive kicked people out of my house for hyping my dog up I hate it.

Seth raises his voice but its an excited voice coz it gets higher when hes being louder

But thanks for that, it makes a lot of sense.

She has to sit and make eye contact with me before she gets her food, and can't eat until I say 'Eat', but I'll let Seth put the bowl down tonight

that bit that I bolded: that's good! and gradually get it to the point where Seth is getting the sit, eye contact and saying "eat".

its hard with a pup and a little one isn't it!

I'm sure you'll get there

I believe the child is only 2? I wouldn't be letting a 2yo put down my dogs food bowl!! That is asking for trouble, no matter the reasoning behind it IMHO...

[Parkeyre]

I'll try the 'look for rain', Ive been pretty lucky with her so far shes not very excitable, shes very placid and if she gets really excited she does a little jump and run which is pretty cute lol but she doesnt jump on me or seth anymore, its getting guests to lay down the law with her too instead of saying 'oh shes so cute and shes just a baby and wants a cuddle' bla bla bla drives me mad. Ive kicked people out of my house for hyping my dog up I hate it.

Seth raises his voice but its an excited voice coz it gets higher when hes being louder

But thanks for that, it makes a lot of sense.

She has to sit and make eye contact with me before she gets her food, and can't eat until I say 'Eat', but I'll let Seth put the bowl down tonight

that bit that I bolded: that's good! and gradually get it to the point where Seth is getting the sit, eye contact and saying "eat".

its hard with a pup and a little one isn't it!

I'm sure you'll get there

I believe the child is only 2? I wouldn't be letting a 2yo put down my dogs food bowl!! That is asking for trouble, no matter the reasoning behind it IMHO...

+1. Work on yourself being pack leader first.

[Staffygirl88]

I'll try the 'look for rain', Ive been pretty lucky with her so far shes not very excitable, shes very placid and if she gets really excited she does a little jump and run which is pretty cute lol but she doesnt jump on me or seth anymore, its getting guests to lay down the law with her too instead of saying 'oh shes so cute and shes just a baby and wants a cuddle' bla bla bla drives me mad. Ive kicked people out of my house for hyping my dog up I hate it.

Seth raises his voice but its an excited voice coz it gets higher when hes being louder

But thanks for that, it makes a lot of sense.

She has to sit and make eye contact with me before she gets her food, and can't eat until I say 'Eat', but I'll let Seth put the bowl down tonight

that bit that I bolded: that's good! and gradually get it to the point where Seth is getting the sit, eye contact and saying "eat".

its hard with a pup and a little one isn't it!

I'm sure you'll get there

I believe the child is only 2? I wouldn't be letting a 2yo put down my dogs food bowl!! That is asking for trouble, no matter the reasoning behind it IMHO...

Topaz is a puppy, I wouldn't do it with a full grown dog but this is a pup. Young kids need to learn how to care for and respect animals and I want my dog to care for and respect my son. Your entitled to your opinion and if you don't think that's achievable well that's your opinion, but I do. I want to be able to trust my dog with my son and if I always keep him away from her, especially when she's eating it will only cause resentment on both sides IMHO

[poodlefan]

Topaz is a puppy, I wouldn't do it with a full grown dog but this is a pup. Young kids need to learn how to care for and respect animals and I want my dog to care for and respect my son. Your entitled to your opinion and if you don't think that's achievable well that's your opinion, but I do. I want to be able to trust my dog with my son and if I always keep him away from her, especially when she's eating it will only cause resentment on both sides IMHO

The first rule I advise any puppy owner is never to allow any behaviour in a pup that you don't want to see in a full grown dog.

What young kids need first and foremost is to be kept safe. I said it all in the previous thread where quite a few folk advised against allowing your son to interact with your dog when she's eating. You were given good reasons as to why your plan to have your son touch your dogs food was not a great one.

Dogs, kids and food make for quite a few bite statistics.

Your dog, your son, your decision. I just hope you do some research on this issue and particularly on dog behaviour. Your dog will not resent that your son cannot be near her when she eats. Chances are she'll appeciate having her meal in peace.

Two elements that any child needs to learn about respecting dogs: leave them alone when they are sleeping and eating. Failure in this plan may have dire consequences for your child and believe me many families have learned that the hard way.

You were also told that your plan to have your dog respect your 2 year old would not work. She needs to respect you and you need to ensure that her behaviour is acceptable. Your son will be incapable of achieving this for some years yet.

No doubt you'll think me "nasty" once again for this post but PLEASE read some articles on dogs and child safety. Your plan runs contrary to both child safety agencies and dog trainers advice.

ETA: Here's a Kidsafe Article you may find useful. It contains advice specifically for the parents of 2 and 3 year old children.

Edited October 29, 2010 by poodlefan

[espinay2]

I have to back Poodlefan up on this one. At the age your child is the most important lesson they can learn is to leave the dog alone and the most important thing you can do is supervise and manage all interactions. Separating your child from the pup while it is sleeping or eating will not cause resentment on the dogs part and is a lesson a child needs to learn (and if they kick up a fuss about that, IMO it perhaps shows that they really DO need to learn that those are the rules and that there are times when the pup must be left alone). A pup needs YOU to be the leader and to manage its interactions with others. A young child is not of an age where it can consistently manage its own interactions or read dog body language. YOU have to do that FOR them. Young children tend to 'forget' what they have been told to do or not do in certain situations quite frequently - very very natural at that age. Statistically the biggest proportion of dog bites to children occur in the family home as a result of the 'trusted' family dog. I too encourage you to read up on child safety around dogs and look for starters at the article Poodlefan has posted.

[Staffygirl88]

Topaz is a puppy, I wouldn't do it with a full grown dog but this is a pup. Young kids need to learn how to care for and respect animals and I want my dog to care for and respect my son. Your entitled to your opinion and if you don't think that's achievable well that's your opinion, but I do. I want to be able to trust my dog with my son and if I always keep him away from her, especially when she's eating it will only cause resentment on both sides IMHO

The first rule I advise any puppy owner is never to allow any behaviour in a pup that you don't want to see in a full grown dog.

What young kids need first and foremost is to be kept safe. I said it all in the previous thread where quite a few folk advised against allowing your son to interact with your dog when she's eating. You were given good reasons as to why your plan to have your son touch your dogs food was not a great one.

Dogs, kids and food make for quite a few bite statistics.

Your dog, your son, your decision. I just hope you do some research on this issue and particularly on dog behaviour. Your dog will not resent that your son cannot be near her when she eats. Chances are she'll appeciate having her meal in peace.

Two elements that any child needs to learn about respecting dogs: leave them alone when they are sleeping and eating. Failure in this plan may have dire consequences for your child and believe me many families have learned that the hard way.

You were also told that your plan to have your dog respect your 2 year old would not work. She needs to respect you and you need to ensure that her behaviour is acceptable. Your son will be incapable of achieving this for some years yet.

No doubt you'll think me "nasty" once again for this post but PLEASE read some articles on dogs and child safety. Your plan runs contrary to both child safety agencies and dog trainers advice.

ETA: Here's a Kidsafe Article you may find useful. It contains advice specifically for the parents of 2 and 3 year old children.

I would like to ask you if you have every had young children around pups and what you're experiences are with them.

I don't think there's anything wrong with my child feeding my dog???

I always fed my dogs when I was a kid, and I was a year old when dad got us our first Staffy. I've never been bitten, and we always did whatever we wanted around him. We snuck up on him (being kids we thought it was funny) had water fights with him and played tug of war etc

The fact that some people are telling me that my son will basically get his face bitten off if he goes near my dog when shes sleeping eating or playing, then maybe i should have gotten something like a worm for my son to play with.

I know there's attacks, I've seen them myself on a 3 year old girl which wasnt fatal luckily. But the dog that I saw attacked was untrained, undisciplined and just treated unwell by the entire family.

The link was good, doesnt say anything about not letting my child feed the dog. Approaching and feeding are different in my opinion.

[poodlefan]

I would like to ask you if you have every had young children around pups and what you're experiences are with them.

No, I don't have kids. However I have a strong interest in dog aggression and have read extensively into what factors see dogs attack people. I know that your son is in the highest risk group for a bite and that this dog will grow into an extremely powerful animal. I have socialised every one of my pups with dog savvy kids. I consider that my responsibility as a dog owner to ensure no child is at risk from my dogs. Even so, I'd never allow any child to interefere with them when eating or sleeping. I have seen a number of aggression incidents involving kids, food and dogs over the years - like you, none serious.

I know there's attacks, I've seen them myself on a 3 year old girl which wasnt fatal luckily. But the dog that I saw attacked was untrained, undisciplined and just treated unwell by the entire family.

The link was good, doesnt say anything about not letting my child feed the dog. Approaching and feeding are different in my opinion.

An attack doesn't have to be fatal to scar a child both physically and mentally for life. The facts are that most bites are on male children aged under 4, in the family home and by the family dog. Many of those dogs are well loved, well trained animals.

You were lucky as a child. You may be lucky with your child and I certainly hope so. But no child safety expert or dog trainer I know of recommends what you're doing. For what it's worth, if I did have young kids, I'd not do what you're doing. I'd be feeding each and every meal to the dog in its locked crate. I'd never advise any of the dog owners I train to do otherwise. Once your son is older, that's a different story. But right now he hasn't the ability to read dog body language nor does he have great impulse control.

Warning: link below contains graphic photo of child bite victim.

Here's another article from a highly respected dog trainer about preventing dog bites on kids. Bear in mind that most dog bites on toddlers are inflicted on the head.

It's interesting that Mr Leerburg's reaction to the photos of the Neo with the baby mirrored mine when I first saw them circulated by email. My blood ran cold. Most people I know thought they were cute. Most people know bugger all about dogs and dog body language. Its that lack of knowledge and their belief that dangerous dogs are the ones that bite people that sees so many kids taken to hospital every year. They simply cant' see that the dog that poses the biggest threat to their kids is their loveable family pet.

Failure to separate and failure to supervise is the common link to most dog bites on kids. It is really that simple. I honestly doubt your pup sees your son as prey. Pups will practice stalking one another and many puppy games aim to prepare a pup for adult life as a canine. What you will prevent with separation and supervision is her EVER seeing him as competiton or a threat. What your son wants in terms of his interaction with this pup can't be allowed to dictate how you handle this. He's too young to understand her or that his actions have consequences with her. As the parent you must set the ground rules for both to follow.

Put a child lock on her pen. You need to prevent him letting her out without your knowledge. My guess is that it wont' be long before he tries.

Here's a pediatric medicine article on preventing dog bites on kids

Here's another on dog safety for kids

Edited October 30, 2010 by poodlefan

[Marley'z Mum]

Here's another article from a highly respected dog trainer about preventing dog bites on kids. Bear in mind that most dog bites on toddlers are inflicted on the head.

It's interesting that Mr Leerburg's reaction to the photos of the Neo with the baby mirrored mine when I first saw them circulated by email. My blood ran cold. Most people I know thought they were cute. Most people know bugger all about dogs and dog body language. Its that lack of knowledge and their belief that dangerous dogs are the ones that bite people that sees so many kids taken to hospital every year. They simply cant' see that the dog that poses the biggest threat to their kids is their loveable family pet.

I am no dog expert, and have been here for my own problems with my dog....... but surely blind freddy can see what that dog is up to..... my heart sank when I saw that, even from the first picture you can see that, then they just get worse...... scary!

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Staffygirl88

I think if you're planning on letting your boy feed your dog, the first time at least - you should put your dog on a lead, ideally have the lead loose but short enough that if the dog does decide to move forward there isn't enough slack for her to reach your boy.

Have a read of the NILIF and TOT bits on this page, will help you get your dog to do what you tell her when you tell her to do it and also teach her some self control around meal time - though it reads like you're on the right track.

http://www.k9pro.com.au/pages/Behavioural.html

With Staffies being so powerful, if there is a misunderstanding about what is and isn't ok - the damage can be extreme, no second chances. So play it safe. Make sure the training is in place and reliable before you take risks with your child. At the moment if your puppy thinks it's ok to play tug with your boy's leg - I don't think they're ready to be unsupervised together.

I found a squirty bottle water pistol was good for distracting my dog from doing what naughty thing she shouldn't - I just used to take it with me when I hang the washing out or whatever. And she'd behave. The range of it helps. Ie I don't have to catch her to send the message. And I don't actually have to get a direct hit either. The weird thing is she likes the water and the squirty bottle. I can use it to give her a drink or cool her off when she's hot.

[WreckitWhippet]

Staffygirl, you just don't get it.

[Staffygirl88]

I would like to ask you if you have every had young children around pups and what you're experiences are with them.

No, I don't have kids. However I have a strong interest in dog aggression and have read extensively into what factors see dogs attack people. I know that your son is in the highest risk group for a bite and that this dog will grow into an extremely powerful animal. I have socialised every one of my pups with dog savvy kids. I consider that my responsibility as a dog owner to ensure no child is at risk from my dogs. Even so, I'd never allow any child to interefere with them when eating or sleeping. I have seen a number of aggression incidents involving kids, food and dogs over the years - like you, none serious.

I know there's attacks, I've seen them myself on a 3 year old girl which wasnt fatal luckily. But the dog that I saw attacked was untrained, undisciplined and just treated unwell by the entire family.

The link was good, doesnt say anything about not letting my child feed the dog. Approaching and feeding are different in my opinion.

An attack doesn't have to be fatal to scar a child both physically and mentally for life. The facts are that most bites are on male children aged under 4, in the family home and by the family dog. Many of those dogs are well loved, well trained animals.

You were lucky as a child. You may be lucky with your child and I certainly hope so. But no child safety expert or dog trainer I know of recommends what you're doing. For what it's worth, if I did have young kids, I'd not do what you're doing. I'd be feeding each and every meal to the dog in its locked crate. I'd never advise any of the dog owners I train to do otherwise. Once your son is older, that's a different story. But right now he hasn't the ability to read dog body language nor does he have great impulse control.

Warning: link below contains graphic photo of child bite victim.

Here's another article from a highly respected dog trainer about preventing dog bites on kids. Bear in mind that most dog bites on toddlers are inflicted on the head.

It's interesting that Mr Leerburg's reaction to the photos of the Neo with the baby mirrored mine when I first saw them circulated by email. My blood ran cold. Most people I know thought they were cute. Most people know bugger all about dogs and dog body language. Its that lack of knowledge and their belief that dangerous dogs are the ones that bite people that sees so many kids taken to hospital every year. They simply cant' see that the dog that poses the biggest threat to their kids is their loveable family pet.

Failure to separate and failure to supervise is the common link to most dog bites on kids. It is really that simple. I honestly doubt your pup sees your son as prey. Pups will practice stalking one another and many puppy games aim to prepare a pup for adult life as a canine. What you will prevent with separation and supervision is her EVER seeing him as competiton or a threat. What your son wants in terms of his interaction with this pup can't be allowed to dictate how you handle this. He's too young to understand her or that his actions have consequences with her. As the parent you must set the ground rules for both to follow.

Put a child lock on her pen. You need to prevent him letting her out without your knowledge. My guess is that it wont' be long before he tries.

Here's a pediatric medicine article on preventing dog bites on kids

Here's another on dog safety for kids

There is a child safe lock on her crate and there always has been.

[Staffygirl88]

Staffygirl, you just don't get it.

I do get what you guys are getting at. But I don't agree with it nor do I have to. There was nothing wrong with the way I was raised around dogs, my dogs loved me and my 3 sisters and there was never an incident. And we hand fed them all the time. I still have all my fingers.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and just because mine is different from yours doesn't mean I'm wrong.

My son and pup are supervised and everyone that comes into my house always comments on how well behaved and calm my pup is so I don't think I'm doing anything wrong.

I had one incident when I was mowing the lawn, but I've learned from that and make sure that if she's out of her crate or in the backyard with my son, then I'm right there with them, and if I can't be, then she will be in her pen. I love my son and I want him to respect and care for animals the way that I was brought up to do. If I don't let him have any involvement in her training or care, then he can't have much of a relationship with her and that's not fair on either of them. I know he's only 2, but he's not stupid.

[Staffygirl88]

Staffygirl88

I think if you're planning on letting your boy feed your dog, the first time at least - you should put your dog on a lead, ideally have the lead loose but short enough that if the dog does decide to move forward there isn't enough slack for her to reach your boy.

Have a read of the NILIF and TOT bits on this page, will help you get your dog to do what you tell her when you tell her to do it and also teach her some self control around meal time - though it reads like you're on the right track.

http://www.k9pro.com.au/pages/Behavioural.html

With Staffies being so powerful, if there is a misunderstanding about what is and isn't ok - the damage can be extreme, no second chances. So play it safe. Make sure the training is in place and reliable before you take risks with your child. At the moment if your puppy thinks it's ok to play tug with your boy's leg - I don't think they're ready to be unsupervised together.

I found a squirty bottle water pistol was good for distracting my dog from doing what naughty thing she shouldn't - I just used to take it with me when I hang the washing out or whatever. And she'd behave. The range of it helps. Ie I don't have to catch her to send the message. And I don't actually have to get a direct hit either. The weird thing is she likes the water and the squirty bottle. I can use it to give her a drink or cool her off when she's hot.

Topaz gets better every day with her meals, when she hears me getting the food, she will normally sit and wait on her dog bed and after I put the bowl down in front of her, she looks me in the eyes and waits until I tell her 'eat'. My son just stood by me today while I fed her and she didn't react at all.

I know that she will be a powerful girl, we just finished puppy class so I'm going to find a dog obedience class for us to join soon. She's getting much better with her recall 'touch wood' we were at my sisters today and we were playing outside in the front yard and my sister was getting in the car so I called her back to me and she came and sat with me until the car was gone.

Luckily, since that one time with Topaz playing tug of war with my son, it hasn't happened again. I haven't given it a chance to happen again and I don't plan to They do play nicely together though, Seth throws her toy for her but gets over it pretty quickly lol

I think we're doing a lot better though. If we're all in the loungeroom, my son can be running around like a headless chook and my pup will barely look sideways at him. They only play together when they're both calm, if either gets too excited I stop play and seperate them. It's been working so far.

A squirty bottle would be a good idea just to get her attention when we're playing outside though if she gets a bit to hyper, I might see if Seth lets me use his water pistol if I have to

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I think it's much better to teach children how to behave with and around dogs, than to scare them so much they scream in fright every time they see a dog.

Of course Staffygirl88's 2yo might not be stupid but I've seen plenty of stupid kids in action. Including my brother's kids, who grew up with an SBT. An SBT who was carefully trained to walk away if kids were annoying and not allowed to put teeth on a human. She will lick you to death given the opportunity.

So when I take my puppy up for a bit of socialization, these kids are squealing and running away and coming back and giving her hugs, and I have to keep saying "this is a dog not a toy", but my dog was remarkably tolerant of all of it, no growling, the occasional yelp when the kids trod on her tail. I was less sure about her good manners than my brother was. Go figure.

But I do keep reading stories in the paper that say "she's never done that before", "she was always so good with children, I don't know what went wrong" etc. Ie if people think their dog is going to hurt their child, they don't leave them alone together, but they think it will be all ok and they do leave them unsupervised and occasionally it goes to hell. Although personally - I think the kid usually has some input. Small children, up to large teenagers have limited understanding of the consequences of their actions ie the ability to consider another person's (or animal's) feelings or needs, or what might happen if they do this naughty thing.

I grew up with a lab x bull terrier. We used to be able to ride it like a pony, pull bones out of its mouth, and go whumf on it's tummy. And it never growled at us or showed any sign of being upset.

The postman - on the other hand, had to take a tennis ball out of the letter box and throw it for the dog before he could come safely in the gate with a parcel.

[Bracken]

The postman - on the other hand, had to take a tennis ball out of the letter box and throw it for the dog before he could come safely in the gate with a parcel.

hehe, love the bit about the postman!

My girl Gwyn is pretty bad with postmen too (I just had to go out and stop her barking then!) She's a complete sook with us, and once we've introduced her to visitors she just want's to be patted and have her back scratched, but when strangers come to the gate she looks really ferocious!

Staffygirl, It's 100% your decision as too how you bring up your boy and your dog. And in most cases i'm sure everything works out just fine.

Personally, I would never trust my dog with small children (mostly because the kids over the road don't realise that she's alive and that grabbing her face will stress her out!) but also because I would simply never trust to the dog behaving it's self. Accidents happen, the other day the 2 yr old kid over the road grabbed Gwyn near her eyes and Gwyn whipped her head around and knocked her over in the process. She wasn't being aggressive, and the kid wasn't trying to make her angry, but it still happened and I think my heart missed a beat!

And this all happened while Gwyn was on a lead and I was crouching down next to her trying to get the kid's to pat her gently on the back.

Basically, a dog is always a dog and in respect to it's behaviour should be treated as such.

[Remarkabull]

Staffygirl, you just don't get it.

I do get what you guys are getting at. But I don't agree with it nor do I have to. There was nothing wrong with the way I was raised around dogs, my dogs loved me and my 3 sisters and there was never an incident. And we hand fed them all the time. I still have all my fingers.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and just because mine is different from yours doesn't mean I'm wrong.

My son and pup are supervised and everyone that comes into my house always comments on how well behaved and calm my pup is so I don't think I'm doing anything wrong.

I had one incident when I was mowing the lawn, but I've learned from that and make sure that if she's out of her crate or in the backyard with my son, then I'm right there with them, and if I can't be, then she will be in her pen. I love my son and I want him to respect and care for animals the way that I was brought up to do. If I don't let him have any involvement in her training or care, then he can't have much of a relationship with her and that's not fair on either of them. I know he's only 2, but he's not stupid.

Re the bolded bit. My dogs are great with my kids, in fact my dogs love all kids in general and they have a great relationship with my girls. My kids were never involved in feeding, training of the dogs when they were little. My kids were never allowed to discipline our dogs and certainly are not permitted to tease or annoy the dogs in any way.

Personally I think that you are setting yourself up for the very thing you are saying you want to avoid. Your son is 2 years old , stupid has nothing to do with it, he is unable to read body language or understand that the dog may find some interactions annoying. I also think that you seem to have a lack of understanding in regards to dog behaviour and the risks associated with it.

If you are so determined to do things your way why bother posting asking for advice?

EFS

Edited November 2, 2010 by dobesrock

[WreckitWhippet]

I think you;re right on the money Dobesrock. There's not much point in asking for advice and then saying, it's not the way you've done it before, so I'll just ignore it.

Staffygirl, if you want to raise the puppy the same way as you've raised all of the other dogs and ignore sensible advice from people who are answering your questions with similar responses, then just do it.

[Kavik]

I have a 3 year old. No way would I allow him to feed my dogs, he is just too silly and just a typical 3 year old. I get him to stand behind an imaginary line in the kitchen where he can watch me feed them but not apporach. I feed the dogs in their crates, one at a time, get them to look at me before I feed them. My son is not allowed to approach them until they are finished and I have removed the bowls. None of my dogs are food aggressive with people, I am just being safe and careful.

When he gets older and can understand and follow directions better he will be allowed to give simple commands etc and tricks for treats, but he is too young now.

ETA: for now he is taught how to pat them nicely and knows their names and goes for walks with them, get kisses, runs around with them at the park etc

Edited November 2, 2010 by Kavik

[WreckitWhippet]

Poodie is 4 and a half and is only just now starting to feed any of the dogs. She understands that they must be calm and quiet before being fed and gives them the back command before opening the crate. When they sit quietly she feeds them. She's very dog savvy for a youngster but even so, she's only now capable of understanding and being aware enough to feed them, at two no way.

[aussielover]

ummm I have to say I agree with the others on this matter. A 2 year old can barely feed themselves, let alone a puppy.

I don't think getting him to feed the pup will result in the pup respecting him more, personally I believe there is a lot more to "pack leadership" than just providing meals and treats etc.

I think 4-5 years old is a good time to slowly start letting a child feed a well-trained dog that is used to waiting patiently for food. I would not let a toddler feed my dogs