Cazstaff Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 Im hoping for some guidence from the wealth of experience in here. Im involved in rescue and have taken on a bitch thought to be in whelp to her brother. I don't want to abort the pups if they have a good chance of being ok, I just don't know how dog genetics work? Thanks in advance, Caz... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 (edited) Whether the pups will be okay or not will depend on many aspects of the breeding. Are the sire and dam free from hereditary disease? Were they in good health when breed? Has the bitch been fed well? I am sure that there are many such matings happening around the world when siblings are kept and allowed to breed. And it happens "naturally" in the wild too when populations are isolated for whatever reason. It doesn't have to result in defects, in fact it can result in desirable adaptations, but in the wild weak or deformed animals would die. Unless you are prepared to PTS any pups that are born deformed them my thoughts would be to spay the bitch if at all possible, aborting the litter at the same time. Hope all goes well with whatever course of action you decide upon. Edited October 25, 2010 by Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmandaJ Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 Whether the pups will be okay or not will depend on many aspects of the breeding. Are the sire and dam free from hereditary disease? Were they in good health when breed? Has the bitch been fed well? I am sure that there are many such matings happening around the world when siblings are kept and allowed to breed. And it happens "naturally" in the wild too when populations are isolated for whatever reason. It doesn't have to result in defects, in fact it can result in desirable adaptations, but in the wild weak or deformed animals would die. Unless you are prepared to PTS any pups that are born deformed them my thoughts would be to spay the bitch if at all possible, aborting the litter at the same time. Hope all goes well with whatever course of action you decide upon. Agreed... What breed is she? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkeyre Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 Are you capable of PTS any deformed pups? Will you be able to home an entire litter of pups? Are you sure the bitch is in good enough health to actually whelp her litter? Are you confident in your ability to handrear the litter if you loose her? ..lots to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 I would desex the bitch and abort the litter. There are already plenty of dogs in rescue without adding a litter that could have a multitude of problems that may or may not be evident before you try to find homes for them. Close inbreeding is a huge gamble and something that should only ever be considered after very careful study of the lines and the dogs involved. Something not possible with a rescue. Even then I believe litter mates is too close. Having worked at a shelter I saw far too many good samaritans spend time, money and emotion to raise an unwanted litter, only to find there where no suitable homes and then had to euthanase them. Far better to do it now than when you have had 8 weeks to get attached to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cazstaff Posted October 25, 2010 Author Share Posted October 25, 2010 Whether the pups will be okay or not will depend on many aspects of the breeding. Are the sire and dam free from hereditary disease? Were they in good health when breed? Has the bitch been fed well? I am sure that there are many such matings happening around the world when siblings are kept and allowed to breed. And it happens "naturally" in the wild too when populations are isolated for whatever reason. It doesn't have to result in defects, in fact it can result in desirable adaptations, but in the wild weak or deformed animals would die. Unless you are prepared to PTS any pups that are born deformed them my thoughts would be to spay the bitch if at all possible, aborting the litter at the same time. Hope all goes well with whatever course of action you decide upon. Agreed... What breed is she? Thankyou She is a Lab X and is in very good condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cazstaff Posted October 25, 2010 Author Share Posted October 25, 2010 Are you capable of PTS any deformed pups?Will you be able to home an entire litter of pups? Are you sure the bitch is in good enough health to actually whelp her litter? Are you confident in your ability to handrear the litter if you loose her? ..lots to think about. I haven't been in the position of having to put to sleep a deformed pup luckily, but Im big on quality of life for dogs, just being alive isnt good enough, so I feel I could do that. Im confident I could rehome them well. We seem to raise great family pups here. She is in very good condition and Id be confident in her ability to whelp & raise the litter. I could handraise a litter if needed, but doubt Id have to with this girl. You're right there is lots to think about.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 Chances are the pups will be fine -- unless there are some genetic nasties lurking. I too, would spey the bitch. Might be very difficult emotionally at the time, but in the long run, it is much better - for the dogs, and for you emotionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmandaJ Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 Depending on what the "X" is just keep a good eye on her when she is whelping. If the "X" is from a larger breed with the possibility of the sire being her brother you may find that you end up with large pups - that may cause her some problems. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-time Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 Just get the bitch desexed and abort at the same time. A little more expensive (less expensive than raising a litter) but essentially, if you are thinking about the welfare of the bitch and the future of yet *another litter of unwanted puppies* - this is the best conclusion all round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 Spey and abort at the same time. There's no need for the bitch to have a litter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 Spey and abort. Safer for her, much better in the long run not to have another litter of Lab X X on earth. Especially if there is the possibility the litter is inbred. You don't know what genetic timebombs are ticking away under the surface and many prospective pet owners wouldn't touch an inbred puppy with somebody else's hands. Inbreeding can be risky enough with known entities, let alone the elusive X factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 Just get the bitch desexed and abort at the same time. A little more expensive (less expensive than raising a litter) but essentially, if you are thinking about the welfare of the bitch and the future of yet *another litter of unwanted puppies* - this is the best conclusion all round. This, and what other's have already said. Being a rescuer means having to put your own emotions aside at times and put the future first. How many lab or staffy crosses do we all see every day in pounds ? Being able to prevent another unwanted litter should be the first base for rescue, not creating them if there's a chance to desex. Heartwrenching I know, but you will have one nice girl to re-home and not half a dozen with unknown issues to worry about fifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 Spey and abort straight away from me. No matter how much care and attention you give the bitch it will still be classed as just another back yard litter that the world does not need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 As a breeder something that really gets up my nose, is that rescues are prepared to bring pups into this world, that they cannot and will not guarantee the health and temperament of, yet breeders are expected to stand by what they produce. Fair enough when it comes to pups that are already in the pounds or they have been surrendered, but when you as the rescuer make the choice not to spey/abort, then like breeders, you should be held accountable for what you produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvale Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 As a breeder something that really gets up my nose, is that rescues are prepared to bring pups into this world, that they cannot and will not guarantee the health and temperament of, yet breeders are expected to stand by what they produce.Fair enough when it comes to pups that are already in the pounds or they have been surrendered, but when you as the rescuer make the choice not to spey/abort, then like breeders, you should be held accountable for what you produce. Fully Agree RSG - there is no accountability here. It is not the fault of the rescuer that this bitch could be in whelp to her brother........but, the litter of X-bred, In-bred, unknown genetic history, is a litter that CAN & SHOULD be aborted.....just IMO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cazstaff Posted October 25, 2010 Author Share Posted October 25, 2010 Thanks everyone,I appreciate your input, opinions and advice. You have brought up a couple of points I hadn't considered and you are right, the responsible and right thing to do here is desex and abort asap which I will do. She is a beautiful young girl and by doing that it will enable her to find her forever family faster and get on with her new life. Thanks again, Caz... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 on your decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordogs Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 I applaud you for making the right choice for the bitch. Emotional yes but correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 Hard decision... Hope all goes well, and we get to see photos ,and read about her new life ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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