Suspected Allergies?

[sas]

Fleas are "breed specific" hence the incidence of them biting humans is very slim indeed. I knew of someone who owned a red heeler....this poor dog was infested with fleas literally! That dog was never bathed.....until one day I literally took it home, bathed it and treated it with Revolution...! The dog was occasionally allowed to sleep on their bed and I never heard that they got bitten once.....I wish they had...just quietly!

What are you on about!!!

[sas]

Interesting. I didn't know that! All this time I had thought if Poppy had fleas then they would also be biting us, be in our carpet & our bed. But they never are! I feel so silly!

I always try and look for fleas on her. Hence why I have spotted the odd one a couple of times and given her a capstar. I always see them crawling along her belly. I've managed to kill the one I've seen but have treated her aswell since there could be more than just one on her.

Will definately be buying the comfortis AND spectrum tomorrow. She is due on the 1st of Nov. Could I give it to her now? We will be away on the 1st and she will be with the pet sitter?

Don't feel silly, the person who suggested that should - bloody hell

A dog who is allergic to fleas doesn't even need to have any fleas living on them - they can just be bitten as the Flea jumps.

Fleas can bite humans and do alot of the times, are some people more sensitive to flea bites to others...yes....just like anything else.

If you find fleas on your dog then treat the dog and consider thhis could be causing an allergic reaction.

Just head to your Vets.

Edited October 26, 2010 by sas

[PoppyDog]

Interesting. I didn't know that! All this time I had thought if Poppy had fleas then they would also be biting us, be in our carpet & our bed. But they never are! I feel so silly!

I always try and look for fleas on her. Hence why I have spotted the odd one a couple of times and given her a capstar. I always see them crawling along her belly. I've managed to kill the one I've seen but have treated her aswell since there could be more than just one on her.

Will definately be buying the comfortis AND spectrum tomorrow. She is due on the 1st of Nov. Could I give it to her now? We will be away on the 1st and she will be with the pet sitter?

Don't feel silly, the person who suggested that should - bloody hell

A dog who is allergic to fleas doesn't even need to have any fleas living on them - they can just be bitten as the Flea jumps.

Fleas can bite humans and do alot of the times, are some people more sensitive to flea bites to others...yes....just like anything else.

If you find fleas on your dog then treat the dog and consider thhis could be causing an allergic reaction.

Just head to your Vets.

Okay guys! Lets not confuse the newbie!

So fleas are not breed specific and if she was infested (I really don't think she is) they would be biting us/in our bed/on our carpets.

I don't deny that she may have the occasional flea or two and will definately double up on flea treatment to see if that can help with her itching and scratching!

Poor puppy! I feel bad! I never realised the Spectrum would only stop them breeding, not stop them being on her and biting her!

[Moselle]

Interesting. I didn't know that! All this time I had thought if Poppy had fleas then they would also be biting us, be in our carpet & our bed. But they never are! I feel so silly!

I always try and look for fleas on her. Hence why I have spotted the odd one a couple of times and given her a capstar. I always see them crawling along her belly. I've managed to kill the one I've seen but have treated her aswell since there could be more than just one on her.

Will definately be buying the comfortis AND spectrum tomorrow. She is due on the 1st of Nov. Could I give it to her now? We will be away on the 1st and she will be with the pet sitter?

Don't feel silly, the person who suggested that should - bloody hell

A dog who is allergic to fleas doesn't even need to have any fleas living on them - they can just be bitten as the Flea jumps.

Fleas can bite humans and do alot of the times, are some people more sensitive to flea bites to others...yes....just like anything else.

If you find fleas on your dog then treat the dog and consider thhis could be causing an allergic reaction.

Just head to your Vets.

I suppose you are referring to my saying that fleas are "breed specific" ????? And how is that not so??? lol. If fleas were not "breed specific" they would be literally jumping from one human's head to another.....and I have never heard of that happening, lol. It may happen that if one lands on a person they may bite but they're not about to take up residence on a human....any time soon, lol. I must add that with all the people that I have met in my lifetime I have NEVER heard of anyone being bitten by a flea.

Edited October 26, 2010 by Moselle

[cj-b]

I think if she is showing signs of an allergy I would consider changing her dry over to a kibble that is free of corn, wheat and soy, as these ingredients seem to be a common cause for the itchies.

Good luck with a few changes. Let us know how she gets on.

Says who though?

Food allergies aren't that common, before wasting time and money on Diets you can't use in an Elimination diet I think it's more productive to follow the advice of a Vet or Derm.

My vet and the Derm. So pretty sure it's safe to say, if your going to feed your dog that is itchy a kibble, it's best to feed them one that is free of wheat, corn and soy, that has been reported to be common culprits in food allergies. It's definitely not an elimination diet, but definitely a better choice to help eliminate possible causes. And they don't have to be expensive, Natures Gift is free of these ingreadients and only $2.36 for a 700gm can of food.

I would follow my vets and derms advice when it comes to my dogs health, and would definitely recommend visiting your vet, and see what they recommend about treating her condition.

I have also learnt it's also definitely much cheaper to try inexpensive options first before heading straight down the specialist path. I mean your dog has to eat right? So why not try and eliminate the food that CAN be the cause of his itchiness and replace it with a different inexpensive food in the mean time??? Made perfect sense to me when my vet suggested it. Not going to be any more expensive than before.

PoppyDog, I hope you can nail this on the head.

Good luck.

Edited October 26, 2010 by cj-b

[cj-b]

Interesting. I didn't know that! All this time I had thought if Poppy had fleas then they would also be biting us, be in our carpet & our bed. But they never are! I feel so silly!

I always try and look for fleas on her. Hence why I have spotted the odd one a couple of times and given her a capstar. I always see them crawling along her belly. I've managed to kill the one I've seen but have treated her aswell since there could be more than just one on her.

Will definately be buying the comfortis AND spectrum tomorrow. She is due on the 1st of Nov. Could I give it to her now? We will be away on the 1st and she will be with the pet sitter?

Don't feel silly, the person who suggested that should - bloody hell

A dog who is allergic to fleas doesn't even need to have any fleas living on them - they can just be bitten as the Flea jumps.

Fleas can bite humans and do alot of the times, are some people more sensitive to flea bites to others...yes....just like anything else.

If you find fleas on your dog then treat the dog and consider thhis could be causing an allergic reaction.

Just head to your Vets.

I don't deny that she may have the occasional flea or two and will definately double up on flea treatment to see if that can help with her itching and scratching!

Poor puppy! I feel bad! I never realised the Spectrum would only stop them breeding, not stop them being on her and biting her!

I know how you feel, it's so hard to watch them scratch when you feel so helpless. Hope she improves for you soon. I think you have a good plan of attack, flea treatments was the first thing my vet and derm asked about when I saw them for my pups condition. Then possible mite infestations (skin scraping), atopic dermatitis, then food. Good luck.

BTW, we think my daughter is allergic to fleas, when she gets bitten at my mums, she gets massive swollen welps, that a bright red and very very itchy for her. Zyrtec works wonders for her when this happens, but she gets driven nuts by them, so can only imagine what it would be like for a small puppy.

Edited October 26, 2010 by cj-b

[dog0267]

Hey all

Stormie has given you good advice. I would just like to add that if you are wanting to get to the bottom of the problem, you will need to be committed! Treating skin issues is one of the most frustrating things as a vet and the biggest problem is usually that the owners are not committed. You need to be completely honest with your vet and follow very specific instructions to the letter to get a good diagnosis. Atopy and Food allergy would be top of my list for this pattern of itching.

Also, please do not give your dog two tablets for fleas (spectrum and comfortis). All of the big name flea products are effective if you use them correctly - ie. treat all pets in the household EVERY month. Treat the environment (most of the flea life cycle takes place off the animal!). If using a spot on, do not wash 24-48 hours either side of application.

Most of the companies have a number you can call - and some will even come out to your house! I think someone also said that if your dog is allergic, one bite from one flea will affect them - this is true!

Mange - may be generalised but can also be subclinical and is another good differential to rule out!

As an aside, it is correct that fleas are species specific as are most parasites. However, this doesn't mean that they can't afffect a species they are not specific to. Fleas can bite (and affect) pretty much any species. They do however, require their specific host species to complete their life cycle.

Hope that helps!

PS> Canine food allergies are usually to a specific protein eg chicken, beef etc. so choose a food with a single protein that you haven't fed before and a single carbohydrate source if you are going to try an elimination diet - and you will need to feed only that for at least 8 weeks!

Edited October 26, 2010 by dog0267

[Mason_Gibbs]

I would go to your vet and explain the problem and see what they say, they will probably recommend doing an elimination diet and seeing a dermatologist.

I use Revolution and then Comfortis between doses as my dog has a flea allergy, I have never seen a flea on him but we do it just as a preventative as he is allergic to insect bites.

ETA - I am on the standard dog plan, you pay $100 per condition per policy year - I think there is a months wait to claim or something like that... cant remember the details.

Edited October 26, 2010 by Mason2009

[KJ]

slightly ot .........but if your dog already has problems, wouldn't it be too late to take out insurance in the hope that the itching etc would be covered? I know when making a claim I have to write the date symptoms first appeared so if you don't already have insurance I doubt you would be covered.

[stormie]

There's no point changing the diet unless you're doing a proper food elimination diet. You need to rule out food allergies first. If you switch to a grain free kibble, you'll still be feeding a protein source you were before, eg chicken, fish etc, so the results would be completely unreliable.

Basically, when you go to a Derm about itchy skin, they'll start you on a process of elimination. You can really only diagnose Atopy by ruling out everything else. So you need to rule out parasites, fungal and bacterial infections, food allergies etc. They will often suggest keeping the dog inside for a few weeks to see if its something outside, and then doing the same with the dog outside, in case its something inside.

They will look at the distribution to help give answers also.

Moselle - I think you need to do some research on vaccines. Vaccinating a dog is introducing them to the virus. It's the same as if the dog encountered the virus at the park, however the particles have just been altered in a way to not be pathogenic. So to the immune system, the particles are exactly the same - it's just that they are unable to affect the body as the virus would if encountered in faeces at the park.

So yes, the vaccine stimulates the immune system. But so does taking your dog for a walk. If you titre test your dog and its got a high parvo level, it's because it has encountered the virus in the environment and the body is acting accordingly.

I'm all for not vaccinating yearly. But people need to understand vaccines first before they start sprouting information to people about how dangerous they are. Do you also then suggest people never walk their dogs or take them to the park? Because every time they sniff another dogs poo, they could be encountering parvo, corona virus, etc etc but that seems to be ok?

As for fleas, Moselle, I think you mean Species specific. Fleas don't pick breeds.

[Moselle]

There's no point changing the diet unless you're doing a proper food elimination diet. You need to rule out food allergies first. If you switch to a grain free kibble, you'll still be feeding a protein source you were before, eg chicken, fish etc, so the results would be completely unreliable.

Basically, when you go to a Derm about itchy skin, they'll start you on a process of elimination. You can really only diagnose Atopy by ruling out everything else. So you need to rule out parasites, fungal and bacterial infections, food allergies etc. They will often suggest keeping the dog inside for a few weeks to see if its something outside, and then doing the same with the dog outside, in case its something inside.

They will look at the distribution to help give answers also.

Moselle - I think you need to do some research on vaccines. Vaccinating a dog is introducing them to the virus. It's the same as if the dog encountered the virus at the park, however the particles have just been altered in a way to not be pathogenic. So to the immune system, the particles are exactly the same - it's just that they are unable to affect the body as the virus would if encountered in faeces at the park.

So yes, the vaccine stimulates the immune system. But so does taking your dog for a walk. If you titre test your dog and its got a high parvo level, it's because it has encountered the virus in the environment and the body is acting accordingly.

I'm all for not vaccinating yearly. But people need to understand vaccines first before they start sprouting information to people about how dangerous they are. Do you also then suggest people never walk their dogs or take them to the park? Because every time they sniff another dogs poo, they could be encountering parvo, corona virus, etc etc but that seems to be ok?

As for fleas, Moselle, I think you mean Species specific. Fleas don't pick breeds.

Yes, I actually meant "species specific" LOL. I don't doubt that fleas are just as happy on a chihuahua as they would be on a poodle.

As for vaccinations.....I should have been more specific....I do believe in puppies having their shots, in fact it is imperative that pups are vaccinated followed by a booster 12 months later and then no more shots for the duration of their life, if in doubt... the best way to go in my opinion is to carry out a titer test every 3-4 years instead of subjecting one's dog to more unecessary shots.

Edited October 26, 2010 by Moselle

[PoppyDog]

Did we read the bit about not confusing the newbie???

But seriously!

I thought comfortis was a spot on. But it's not?

So should I:

Use Spectrum Sentinal with a spot on like Advantage?

OR

Use Spectrum Interceptor with a spot on?

OR

Use Spectrum Interceptor with Comfortis?

With regards to treating fleas properly we do. We use the Sential chew religiously once a month. She is bathed fortnightly (with Aloeveen - should I change to Malseb?). Her bed is washed weekly with our towels. We vaccum regularly, at least once a week. We only have Poppy so no other pets need to be treated. She is very much an inside dog so my only guess is that she is picking up fleas from the yard.

KJ - Poppy has been a but dragger, itcher, scratcher, foot chewer for as long as I can remember. I would go as far to say from the day we got her. If I wasn't someone who took dog ownership seriously and spent time on forums like this learning all I can learn I might think that her behaviour was normal. Dogs scratch and itch and chew and drag their bums sometimes. It's my understanding that if I choose to take out pet insurance now and wait the 2 - 4 weeks before seeing a vet about the issues then they will cover it. In the meantime I will work on the fleas & food! :D

[stormie]

Poppydog - I can't stress enough the consult with a Derm. I spent so much money on 'miracle cures' from the internet, shampoos, supplements, clothing, herbal/holistic medicines, new diets etc etc, trying to relieve Orbit's itching.

In the end though, I had just wasted so much time and money that I wish I spent the right way, to find out the cause of his allergies.

For example - so many people suggested getting him on a raw diet, so I did. I was feeding him chicken frames, chicken mince etc etc. I was also supplementing him with stacks of fish oil as I had read it was great for skin.

None of it helped at all. I used Aloveen and gave him oatmeal baths to try and soothe him.

Eventually, I was lucky enough to get some help from a Derm. We did what she recommended and whilst doing the food elimination diet, came to the conclusion that chicken and fish actually made him worse. So whilst trying to help, I was making him worse!

I then did a series of blood tests to find out what he reacted to (he couldn't do the intra dermal skin testing because you need to with hold all drugs for many weeks and he'd have killed himself had I done that!) and turns out oatmeal is a trigger.

Occasionally now, I admit I do still read things and think I might give it a go, but only once I've totally sussed out the ingredients and know that its not going to make him worse.

As for fleas, if flea allergy turns out to be a problem, the more prevention you can use, the better. I would suggest using a combination of a breeding regulator (like whats in Sentinel) and an Adulticide - so something that kills the adults.

Revolution might be something to look into too - it works against scabies so you can rule scabies out at the same time.

[Mason_Gibbs]

Poppydog - I can't stress enough the consult with a Derm. I spent so much money on 'miracle cures' from the internet, shampoos, supplements, clothing, herbal/holistic medicines, new diets etc etc, trying to relieve Orbit's itching.

In the end though, I had just wasted so much time and money that I wish I spent the right way, to find out the cause of his allergies.

For example - so many people suggested getting him on a raw diet, so I did. I was feeding him chicken frames, chicken mince etc etc. I was also supplementing him with stacks of fish oil as I had read it was great for skin.

None of it helped at all. I used Aloveen and gave him oatmeal baths to try and soothe him.

Eventually, I was lucky enough to get some help from a Derm. We did what she recommended and whilst doing the food elimination diet, came to the conclusion that chicken and fish actually made him worse. So whilst trying to help, I was making him worse!

I then did a series of blood tests to find out what he reacted to (he couldn't do the intra dermal skin testing because you need to with hold all drugs for many weeks and he'd have killed himself had I done that!) and turns out oatmeal is a trigger.

Occasionally now, I admit I do still read things and think I might give it a go, but only once I've totally sussed out the ingredients and know that its not going to make him worse.

As for fleas, if flea allergy turns out to be a problem, the more prevention you can use, the better. I would suggest using a combination of a breeding regulator (like whats in Sentinel) and an Adulticide - so something that kills the adults.

Revolution might be something to look into too - it works against scabies so you can rule scabies out at the same time.

Yes - Oatmeal shampoo is a no go here too - makes the itching way way worse.

I would also go straight to a derm - same thing here, spent heaps trying diff things and none of it worked besides what the derm suggested.

[all that glitters]

What diet is Orbit itch free on now out of curiosity? :D

Poppydog - I can't stress enough the consult with a Derm. I spent so much money on 'miracle cures' from the internet, shampoos, supplements, clothing, herbal/holistic medicines, new diets etc etc, trying to relieve Orbit's itching.

In the end though, I had just wasted so much time and money that I wish I spent the right way, to find out the cause of his allergies.

For example - so many people suggested getting him on a raw diet, so I did. I was feeding him chicken frames, chicken mince etc etc. I was also supplementing him with stacks of fish oil as I had read it was great for skin.

None of it helped at all. I used Aloveen and gave him oatmeal baths to try and soothe him.

Eventually, I was lucky enough to get some help from a Derm. We did what she recommended and whilst doing the food elimination diet, came to the conclusion that chicken and fish actually made him worse. So whilst trying to help, I was making him worse!

I then did a series of blood tests to find out what he reacted to (he couldn't do the intra dermal skin testing because you need to with hold all drugs for many weeks and he'd have killed himself had I done that!) and turns out oatmeal is a trigger.

Occasionally now, I admit I do still read things and think I might give it a go, but only once I've totally sussed out the ingredients and know that its not going to make him worse.

As for fleas, if flea allergy turns out to be a problem, the more prevention you can use, the better. I would suggest using a combination of a breeding regulator (like whats in Sentinel) and an Adulticide - so something that kills the adults.

Revolution might be something to look into too - it works against scabies so you can rule scabies out at the same time.

[stormie]

He's not itch free by any means!!

Beef and turkey seem to be ok in that they don't give him any flare ups.

He's on Atopica now and still needs cortisone every few days.

And he's still itchy.