Herding Talk Thread

[Are You Serious Jo]

Leo is not a fan of driving either!

[piper]

Riddick, whereabouts in Vic are you? I think you are talking of the Greg Prince clinics which I would love to get to. But there are other options in Vic.

We have had these ladies to SA for a couple of clinics, they do well with a wide variety of dogs: http://www.herdingtraining.com/

[Are You Serious Jo]

Awesome cast!

[piper]

Leo is not a fan of driving either!

Well it is so against their instinct. Piper never got the hang of it - always did it grudgingly and I used to joke that she swore at me every time I asked her to do it. You should see the daggers she would shoot me when we switched to driving.

I didn't handle Jazz well today which didn't help. I forgot that I am to totally break her off the stock after the fetch to bring her in fo the drive. And then break her off the drive before sending her to fetch. And because I forgot that, she starte creeping around as I wasn't making it very clear which exercise we were doing. Must remember that next time... It isn't exactly a golden rule but it is certainly 1 that helped her to switch her frame of mind so taking her to a new environment, giving her less sheep and an obstacle and forgetting to do that were too many changes for her brain to deal with at once.

Some of her yard work today I was thrilled with. She hates yard work, it means going close - and as you can see she is not an in close kind of dog.

[ness]

The bits I saw from Jazz - looked good Piper .

[Riddick]

Riddick, whereabouts in Vic are you? I think you are talking of the Greg Prince clinics which I would love to get to. But there are other options in Vic.

We have had these ladies to SA for a couple of clinics, they do well with a wide variety of dogs: http://www.herdingtraining.com/

We are in Sunraysia.

Which works out to be about 4 hour out of Adelaide and 6 and a half hours out of Melbourne.

[piper]

Hmm probably not a lot of options out there You would be easier to get to our upcoming training day near Gawler than the place near Melbourne that I posted. You could try the SA Working Sheepdog Assoc and the Vic equivalent. I know with the SA group they run training days at various locations for members. Not sure how open they are to a variety of breeds though, although I believe someone was going with a Belgian Shepherd to 1 of the SA groups.

[Inevitablue]

I asked Ffiona today if I could share these gorgeous photos she took of my girl

and her obsession with sniffing their bums :laugh:

[Weasels]

Both our kelpies got their HSAs yesterday :)

The second run wasn't pretty for either of them, Weez got very confused and over-stimulated when one of the sheep dropped down lame and he had to finish the course without it But they squeaked through, and the foxdog even got high in trial for the morning runs:)

Fingers crossed for HSAd next month!

[piper]

Congratulations Weasels!!!

We trialled last weekend and Piper got a pass in advanced on A course ducks towards her herding champ but missed high in tril by half a point which is a bugger as they need high in trial from advanced at the moment to get their herding champ.

Jazz gained a pass on inter A course ducks and I think it might be her title. Thrilled with her work as she hasn't been on ducks at all since before her litter and they are 13 months old now. And of course as I dont care if she wins or not as I don't need it, she got High In Trial. I actually never really care about High in Trial, just how my dogs work but to get Champ Piper needs it. There is a proposal to remove it from the requirements but at 11.5 years old I am just not sure if we will have the extra time needed as it would also need extra passes.

I also had Jazz on intermediate sheep for our first attempt. Not a pass but I didnt expect it. I was happy though as she got the sheep to the mouth of the Y twice. I have discovered that turning the direction of movement while driving is lacking. I can get her to hold the line now (and couldnt get that only a couple of months ago) so now need to work on geting her to change their path without bringing them back. I also need to remember to keep calm and quiet - I forgot and raised my voice with her, she paniced and defaulted to what she knows which is bringing stock to me. I only worked that bit out when training yesterday, amazing how she could respond instantly to a whispered "wait" when 20m away but say it with force and she rushes around to the head of the sheep and turns them back.

Yesterdays training excitement was Jazz's daughter. Aretha hasn't had much stock exposure or training and we had her doing PT type stuff yesterday with ease. She was a bit close to begin with but I think that was a bit of stress at going into a bigger space, as she realised she had them under control she relaxed and dropped back off of them. Got her to turf them into the paddock at the end of our training and then decided to see if she could collect them. Well we estimate it was 75m that she went to collect them quietly and calmly. She even had to work hard to keep them away from a strong draw and get them back to her handler who was probably 50m away. I thought she might struggle or hold them on the fence or something, but nope - she worked it out beautifully.

[Are You Serious Jo]

Well done Piper, Jazz and Weasles

[Weasels]

Thanks Piper & Rev. Jo! :) Sounds like a big couple of weekends with the Borders Piper - Congrats for all the big and small wins :)

We're looking pretty set to move back to SA this summer, so I might see you both at some trials next year We even have preliminary plans afoot to get some of our own sheep, so we'll see how that pans out .......

I just made out our entries for the next trial and we'll have 6 runs all up It'll be our last A-course trials for the year though (as I understand it), then the last 2 trials will be B-course and I don't think we'll be ready for those :/

Edited June 24, 2012 by Weasels

[ness]

Oh no Weasels is coming maybe it might be time to leave the state and head elsewhere :laugh:.

[Weasels]

Ness

You're just worried I'm going to start bugging you to do your corrections in person!

[ness]

What corrections Weasels - had other things on my mind

[Inevitablue]

Both our kelpies got their HSAs yesterday :)

The second run wasn't pretty for either of them, Weez got very confused and over-stimulated when one of the sheep dropped down lame and he had to finish the course without it But they squeaked through, and the foxdog even got high in trial for the morning runs:)

Fingers crossed for HSAd next month!

That's so cool! with a HIT :)

We have our first HSAs next week. I feel so much more confident after spending a weekend with Colin Webster and Ann Moy. Colin started us on the Intermediate course and some driving started to happen but it showed up weaknesses in her sides. She is just coming off season, has missed training and has been kennelled for the past week. I so hope I have the same dog I did 2 weeks ago at the trial.

Piper, anyone who gets to Advanced is AMAZING!!

I had such a break though with my male this weekend. Being an ACD who is very true to breed type he had to push though the need to bite, which he did this weekend (after one or two consequences...lol). So happy as I was beginning to stress, my bitch has been a dream, never once even opening her mouth or charging stock, so a fiesty, ballsy dog was foreign to me.

I think he is going to be an even better dog than her. His drive in insane and he has picked up his side words so quickly. I need to lose the bossy barking directed at me when he is given a stop command though. I've always struggled with her keeping distance off the stock, but he seems to naturally go out and around the stock and not cut corners.

This is him from today

Edited June 24, 2012 by Inevitablue

[Weasels]

Thanks Inevitablue :) Sent off my next trial entries today, bring on the ducks! :laugh:

Piper, anyone who gets to Advanced is AMAZING!!

Agree! Even just watching Intermediate my brain can't grasp training a dog to that level, Advanced is just a foreign language to me

Good luck with your Started run Inevitablue! Loving the pics by the way :D

Edited June 25, 2012 by Weasels

[Janba]

Just doing the catalogue for our trial next Sat - 99 entries Its a logistical nightmare.

Weasels Advanced is fun - I hate going back to started. I love the driving and once you get the hang of it not that hard. You just need good verbal flanks and a walkup and get the dog conditioned to the idea that it doesn't always have to bring the sheep to you. Its just you, dog, sheep instead of you, sheep, dog.

[Weasels]

Weasels Advanced is fun - I hate going back to started. I love the driving and once you get the hang of it not that hard. You just need good verbal flanks and a walkup and get the dog conditioned to the idea that it doesn't always have to bring the sheep to you. Its just you, dog, sheep instead of you, sheep, dog.

Actually I probably would enjoy that, the main reason I prefer ducks is because then I don't have stock attached to my butt :laugh:

99!! That's a big day!

[piper]

99!!! I think we wouldn't get much more than that across all of our trials for the year!!

It is funny, we have been managing advanced ducks for ages but no way I will try it on sheep. LOL. The ducks are easier as they want to move away from the person and I also find they like the fence line so with A course once you get them around C and point them to the fence the only difficult point is turning them off of it at number 4. Oh and getting them out of the hold exam pen, I kind of suck at that and lost most of my ponts there with both girls. I have tried quite a few different things and just not found a way that works well. A chance to train would be beneficial but we usually only get to work them at trials. And just my luck there is a duck training day next weekend and I will be out of action from surgery so going to miss it

When I trained Piper there was no one around that knew how to teach a drive so she has never had a good drive or inside flanks, she almost always flanks wide behind me and progress forwards is more from blocking the sheep rather than pushing them. Controlled release I think it gets called - if they go where I dont want I can flank her and then stop her and when they turn the right way the pressure is taken off by her remaining in a stop until I need to flank her to correct their line. She also became course wise and soon learnt that once we turned C and headed to the Y where she needed to take them next so we would "fight" over the first few metres of the drive and then she would accept it as she knew where to go. I never bothered with advanced A course sheep as we just didn't get the time to train enough and I knew with our paddock that her weak point would be turning them off the fence at 4 and for us that is where there is a big draw straight down the fence to the let out gate. Now she is 11.5 and I have a better understanding of driving so could probably get her to do it but she just doesn't have the speed any more if the sheep get away from here which is sad

Jazz is being trained a "proper" drive - to inside flank, walk a line and hold that line rather than the block and escape method that I got away with with Piper. It is taking longer but i know it will be worth it as I expect once we get intermediate she will pretty much go straight through to advanced as the skill will be there and I can already get her to hold a line longer than the longest she will need in A course. The hardest things are getting the drive started and changing direction - I need to work on getting her to turn them without over flanking. Once again, she has been working intermediate on ducks for ages now (her first pass was probably 18 months to 2 years ago but she missed all of last year to maternal duties) but we got through it using her very good stops and allowing the ducks to move of of her more than actual driving. She is also not as intense working the ducks so tends to be more compliant and willing to come off balance than she is with sheep.