Herding Talk Thread

[SmoothieGirl]

A dog wandering off to eat poo can also be a sign that the dog is stressed about something. Like if you are teaching something new and the dog has a bit of a brain fart, it might 'change' the subject because it doesn't like the new rules. Once these dogs accept the new rules of the game, so to speak, they will usually stop and switch back on. Basically it can be an avoidance signal.

[Weasels]

A dog wandering off to eat poo can also be a sign that the dog is stressed about something. Like if you are teaching something new and the dog has a bit of a brain fart, it might 'change' the subject because it doesn't like the new rules. Once these dogs accept the new rules of the game, so to speak, they will usually stop and switch back on. Basically it can be an avoidance signal.

He definitely did this as an avoidance thing when we first started, I had to herd HIM onto to the sheep many times. Now it's mostly when we're doing fenceline drives and the sheep are following nicely.

I say boredom but it's probably more that his instincts are telling him to work the sheep but there isn't really anything that needs to be done -> frustration -> poop eating. But he comes back at the slightest signal so it's a pretty minor problem at the moment.

[piper]

It is the last trial for the year here in SA this weekend. Today we had 2 x B Course trials on sheep and tomorrow 2 x A sheep. I haven't got anyone entered for tomorrow but had Jazz in 1 run today and Piper in 2 runs. Jazz was first run of the day and was stock dog after that.

It was a day of ups and downs. Things went pear shaped on Jazz's run right from the beginning and in hind sight I should have done 2 things - not send her when I did and then also give her longer before withdrawing her. I then used her as stock dog and she decided she couldn't cover 1 side with the strong draw, no idea why, it has not been an issue before. She is not normally 1 sided. Ended up getting another dog to act as stock dog for the second trial as she started crossing when I asked her to go to her suddenly non preferred side and was just getting worse and worse (and me more and more frustrated and so the vicious circle started )

On the up, Piper at 10.5 years put in 2 pretty good runs for 2 passes and gained her HSBs title from the only 3 B course trials we have held in SA. Her first run was ratty but her second run was pretty good. If I could just get the pen happening more smoothly her 86.5 would have been a much better score (7 off at the pen!) She also gained high in trial from her first ratty run as the only pass in the morning trial. The second pass of the day was bittersweet and left me with a few tears as that was Piper's last ever Competitive sheep run. She has been an amazing dog to train and trial for my first herding dog and together we have learnt so much and gained so much more than I ever would have expected. At 10.5, with a rear leg issue and a 6 month break until our next trials, I think that intermediate will be too big an ask so will finish her here on this positive note. The dog that I retired last year has now gained her HXAd and HSBs this year, we will still continue with ducks but sheep and the longer outruns and speed to cover put too much stress on her back leg and she couldn't sit or drop by her second run today. As always though she gave me her all and never showed any sign of pain and as she will literally work on 3 legs, I have made the decision I think is best for her. I am a very proud Mum tonight of Piper - Agile Draw CD AD JD HIAs HXAd HSBs.

[Janba]

Well done Piper.

Jazz might be a bit sore or may just be being hormonal. She may also be feeling a bit insecure in the open paddock as it is different to trialling A course, even when you work them in training in an open paddock. I know Cole has more of a fear of losing his sheep in B even though I regularly train him in open paddocks. They do pick up the different atmosphere at a trial.

[piper]

Thanks Janba.

I have no idea what went on - we have worked in that paddock, on those sheep. It just started to feel the more problems we had the worse it go so I stopped using her before I totally blew her confidence. She is definitely far more sensitive to odd little things than Piper is.

[piper]

I posted this in the border collie thread but thought I would share here too

This is Aretha - the puppy we ran on from my first litter. She is 4.5 months old and met sheep for the first time today. Initially she ran in and split them but once blocked a couple of times she quickly started circling both directions and would also drop and hold them. Jazz was very similar at the same age. Now to let her grow and mature before doing more with her and falling into the trap of too much too soon...

Not bad for a baby!!

[SmoothieGirl]

Good day at the Scottish Breeds Herding trial today. Bronte passed her final two legs of her Herding Started A (sheep) title and will now be known as Nauglamir Bronte N Gold CCD HSAs. And my nine and a half month pup Ren, passed his Instinct Certificate and his two Herding Tests, so he will be known as Foxbell First Romance HT.

Paperwork pending of course.

Some of the early work wasn't pretty, but Bronte did quite a nice second run and it was quick too, felt like we were barely in there. She wasn't rushing to much, but it was just a much clearer sweeping run. Ren and I need to work on recall off the stock, he gets a bit worried that they will take off if he leaves them, so he doesn't recall well. Given that he has a bang on recall everywhere else, it was just a bit frustrating. Long line recall work off stock over the summer me thinks!!!

[superminty]

Yay, go Bronte and the Renster.

Did Bronte find it easier at KCC without having that draw to the pen?

Re: recall - I have the opposite problem with Cash, I have no recall except for off stock...

[SmoothieGirl]

Yay, go Bronte and the Renster.

Did Bronte find it easier at KCC without having that draw to the pen?

Re: recall - I have the opposite problem with Cash, I have no recall except for off stock...

Um, sort of. I think the smaller area helped with her not getting too silly. There was a draw, but to a gate flat in the fence on the long side, between the panel and No.4. In her first run we lost them going towards the Y, or was it just after, and they shot over there. She couldn't get them back without me, but as soon as I gave them 'me' as a safe option she was fine. No problem really in her second run, although she did give them a bit of a pop and a telling off when then went past the gate. She was sort of saying, 'keep the hell going, my mum hasn't stopped yet so no dilly dallying.' She read them well, but they probably didn't need the full extent of the telling she gave them.

Her first run was just over 7mins long, her second flew by and was just nearly 3 and a half minutes. I felt like we had barely got in there and it was over with, it was quite forward moving.

Edited October 9, 2011 by SmoothieGirl

[piper]

Well done smoothiegirl!

I found my recall off stock improved when I started helping out in the yards and doing "real work", I guess because she worked out that coming didn't end things and often just meant we went to a different group of sheep.

[Gayle.]

We were at the Scottish Breeds trial yesterday, I'd entered just to give Shae some paddock time with the sheep and another run on the PT course. I was planning to call it as soon as she started to get too big for her boots (a bit of a problem lately) or went feral and chased the sheep all over the place (which was our previous PT attempts).

The weather was crap.......pissing rain, freezing cold, windy......but knock me down with a feather, the little bugger worked beautifully and she now has her PT title!

We made heaps of mistakes.....mostly mine.....and in the past my problem has been not knowing how to fix them and panicking and just going to pieces. Not yesterday......maybe the crap weather gave me a clearer head or maybe I'm just getting more confident with my skills (I have the same fantastic trainers as Smoothie Girl)....but with each mistake, I stopped, thought about it, went into position to fix it and off we went again. Shae went feral only once, and I think it was my fault for not giving her proper direction, so I called her off and made her wait while the sheep gathered, then we started again. I was so happy with the outcome for both of us, it's given me so much more confidence for training for the next level now!

[superminty]

We were at the Scottish Breeds trial yesterday, I'd entered just to give Shae some paddock time with the sheep and another run on the PT course. I was planning to call it as soon as she started to get too big for her boots (a bit of a problem lately) or went feral and chased the sheep all over the place (which was our previous PT attempts).

The weather was crap.......pissing rain, freezing cold, windy......but knock me down with a feather, the little bugger worked beautifully and she now has her PT title!

We made heaps of mistakes.....mostly mine.....and in the past my problem has been not knowing how to fix them and panicking and just going to pieces. Not yesterday......maybe the crap weather gave me a clearer head or maybe I'm just getting more confident with my skills (I have the same fantastic trainers as Smoothie Girl)....but with each mistake, I stopped, thought about it, went into position to fix it and off we went again. Shae went feral only once, and I think it was my fault for not giving her proper direction, so I called her off and made her wait while the sheep gathered, then we started again. I was so happy with the outcome for both of us, it's given me so much more confidence for training for the next level now!

Well done GayleK and Shae! Being able to keep a cool head really makes a difference.

I am going to test my trialling brain out at the VHA amenities trial been a while since I trialled last...

[SmoothieGirl]

Great work Gayle!!!

I'm thinking about entered the VHA trial, but I'm not sure yet. I might come and offer morale support even if I don't trial.

[Inevitablue]

We have no more trials in NSW for the year Not that I've done any training since getting her PT

The pup is going to have his first look at sheep next weekend, can't wait to see if he is as switched on as the girl was at the same age.

[Weasels]

Well done GayleK & good luck Superminty!

I generally didn't get stressed in the tests by assuming that any mistakes were the dog's responsibility to fix After all, he's at work and I'm on my weekend! I might feel differently when we start trialling and there are points to be lost tho.

Both our kelpies have had 2 practices on ducks over the last couple of training sessions They were very confused to start with but on their second run especially they really got the hang of it and it was just amazing to watch their laser-focus on controlling every duck with such subtle adjustments. Weez has a pretty good 'that'll do' command on sheep but he did not want to leave the ducks until I dragged him out on a lead! They both really enjoyed it, and we humans did too :D

[superminty]

Just did my entries for the amenities trial Feel sick already I'm doing started A sheep and ducks to assess where we're at with regards to entering intermediate next year.

Had a ripper day training yesterday. Apart from working some lovely dogs - including 4 Bouviers (wow, what great dogs!) - Cash managed his first real drive of 5 sheep.

I flanked him a quarter of the way around and asked him to turn in and walk the stock past me, then told him to "take em" and let him drive til they hit the fence - probably only about 5 metres or so, but he did it a number of times and only once blew through and fetched them back to me. So proud of my crazy fetching monster! Especially as there was a girl in season somewhere nearby and he lost his brain for a while there (despite having no nuts, he still acts like a total boy ).

Then did a quick run on ducks coz it's been a while and he did some lovely inside flanking to drive them up and down the fence line.

Weasels - I find the same thing happened to Cash on ducks - he lost some of his previous listening ability when he was starting out - wouldn't take direction, stop or recall away, but he seems to be able to multi task well enough now to listen to what I am asking him to do

[Weasels]

Haha thanks Superminty, I guess I'll just have to be patient and extra vigilant until he settles into the job :D Weez's stops and flanks were still intact, and I got him out of the pen off-lead, but as soon as we were out he tried to race back in again and wouldn't be called away! Luckily the next dog going in was our other dog so OH grabbed him at the gate until I could get over there with a lead

Unfortunately we only got those 2 consecutive weeks on ducks because they were trying to get them fit for the royal show, so our access to them will be a bit more sporadic from here.

Good luck in the trial! I'm sure you'll both do fine And yay for good training!!!

[JulesP]

Poppy went herding yesterday too. Gone are the days of having the sheep stuck in the corner! Every time they bolted down to their yard Poppy calmly walked down and suggested they move out of the corner . Probably need to work on some control so she didn't have to go get them out of the corner so much! Think she would make a better yard dog then paddock dog. She is great at getting the sheep through obstacles, out of corners and holding in corners. Not so great at moving across the paddock. Her preference also is to hold the sheep and let me come and get them rather then fetching the sheep to me!

We started some driving which was nice too. Much needed due to her lack of desire to fetch!

[Inevitablue]

Sitting here at Erskine Park at a conformation show, bored, waiting around for Group.

I thought why not go see some sheep!

Tess hasn't seen sheep for almost 3 months, since getting her PT title. Such a nice dog, never would have guessed it's been so long since working sheep. Straight in and did the nicest work in the PT ring, her best to date (minus the bindi removal half way )

My new pup, all of 12 weeks old today had his first look at sheep. First look.....hum..whatever...ooohhh poo! Second look....ooohh I move, they move....hmmm I bark..... they move even faster....wow, I go in for a big, head tilted, mouth wide open heel nip...now they're moving really fast!! (ie...the sheep started trotting ).

Oh dear.... He is so bold!

[Janba]

Sitting here at Erskine Park at a conformation show, bored, waiting around for Group.

I thought why not go see some sheep!

Tess hasn't seen sheep for almost 3 months, since getting her PT title. Such a nice dog, never would have guessed it's been so long since working sheep. Straight in and did the nicest work in the PT ring, her best to date (minus the bindi removal half way )

My new pup, all of 12 weeks old today had his first look at sheep. First look.....hum..whatever...ooohhh poo! Second look....ooohh I move, they move....hmmm I bark..... they move even faster....wow, I go in for a big, head tilted, mouth wide open heel nip...now they're moving really fast!! (ie...the sheep started trotting ).

Oh dear.... He is so bold!

And he is soooooooooo cute, even if Cole did grumble at him for climbing all over him and licking his mouth. He is a nice pup and hopefully will do as well as Tess for you.