JulesP Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I assume that Piper knows about her herding experience. Good grief I am trying to help you here. I give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I tend to agree with JulesP on this one. Reading the flyer you are promoting her agility expertise not her herding expertise. You list her 3 sheep last after the agility and agility is irrelevent to herding. I wouldn't go to a clinic were the the emphasis is put on the main instructors agility career not her herding one if I didn't know the instructor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSDs Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I assume that Piper knows about her herding experience. Good grief I am trying to help you here. I give up. Jules....I'm not sure why all the attitude, but I have neither the time nor inclination to argue with you over what appears to be nothing. I simply said to ask Piper what it was that attracted her to Denise's herding clinic - nothing more, nothing less. We don't always come across on these forums the way we intend, so I apologise if you've taken whatever I've said the wrong way. Thanks for the input everyone. Theresa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSDs Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I tend to agree with JulesP on this one. Reading the flyer you are promoting her agility expertise not her herding expertise. You list her 3 sheep last after the agility and agility is irrelevent to herding. I wouldn't go to a clinic were the the emphasis is put on the main instructors agility career not her herding one if I didn't know the instructor. Thanks Janba. I do take your point! Denise listed them as she saw fit, but I certainly see where you and Jules are coming from. Theresa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piper Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 The workshop I went to was at Denise's before she had Border collies. I kind of find it funny reading that article cos at the time she was saying she didn't care that the kelpies weren't ideally suited to 3 sheep was going to persist and use them as they were the breed she loves. I must admit I read the flyer and thought the same - why the agility emphasis. You need all the herding stuff first and then mention her other involvement in the dog world. My question is still what experience has she had with "non traditional" herding breeds? I know people with breeds other than border collies and kelpies that have been to clincs where they have been told oh yes any breed is fine and definitely not been overly welcomed when they arrived. I am not saying Denise would do this at all, and the fact you are working with her indicates she probably has worked with other breeds so it would be worth mentioning as well. As for what attracted me to a clinic with Denise - I had only just started with herding and was going to Vic for some trials and heard about it and decided to sacrifice a day of trials and do the clinic instead. I knew of her more from agility at that point. Her husband and fahter in law were also there. I probably did most of my work with John who declared my little show line girl as "not too bad." It was a compliment when he said his wife wouldn't mind a house dog and he would let her have 1 if he could be sure it would work like that, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvsdogs Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Thanks for that. Think I will do more work perfecting commands on sheep and then look at giving ducks a try. Cheers :rolleyes: In NSW we have very little duck trialling or training. Trialling is only at the trial levels not tests and when we do have training dogs are usually required to be a least PT level. This may change if we are ever allowed to trial and train ducks at EP but unfortunately we aren't allowed to at the moment. You would need to find private training or get your own ducks. Janba, it was recommended to me to take Tilba to herding at EP, to give her something to do & I've been thinking of taking her for a while, when it starts up again. I was given the wrong date of Mar 1 which is a Tues. Do you know the correct date? I'm on the clinic lists at Uralla & Binalong but both are rather far away & so far the dates have never suited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) Training starts back the first weekend in Marh with the herding association training day on the 5th (you neeed to join which is about $25 but training is free) and the ASDC on the 6th which you also need to join ($28 + $5 joining fee and $3 to train). The following Sat, 12th, is sporting committee training and you need to be a member of DogsNSW and training is $5. If you're already a DogsNSW member come on the 12th and you can see if Tilba likes it as that would be the cheapest option. I'll be there, the fat person who wobbles when she walks because of my MS, and Cole is easy to recognise, though his sister Jinnie looks very like him. ETA the herding association training is the first Sat of each month and no training fees. Edited January 22, 2011 by Janba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvsdogs Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) Thanks for that Janba. I'm a member of DogsNSW so you think it best to wait until the 12th? Will see how it goes. I was told that beginners are in the morning. My obedience club trains on Sat afternoons with beginners class at 2pm which I help out with instructing. My lesson not being until 3.30. ''member of DogsNSW and training is $5'' that's the one that was suggested to me. Edited January 24, 2011 by luvsdogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSDs Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 The workshop I went to was at Denise's before she had Border collies. I kind of find it funny reading that article cos at the time she was saying she didn't care that the kelpies weren't ideally suited to 3 sheep was going to persist and use them as they were the breed she loves. Yes, I was there. I can’t believe it was back in 2003. How time flies! I mentioned you to some of the other girls that did the workshop, and they recall you and your dog… Piper, wasn’t it? Hi girls if your lurking!! :D As far as I know, she still has Kelpies. I was surprised that she’d taken up Borders too, but I was told (not by Denise) that Borders make better sporting dogs and so they are more successful in herding comps. I guess it’s a case of ‘Horses for courses’. I must admit I read the flyer and thought the same - why the agility emphasis. You need all the herding stuff first and then mention her other involvement in the dog world. Yes, I think that point has been well and truly made! ;) My question is still what experience has she had with "non traditional" herding breeds? I'm confused as to why she would need experience with ‘non-traditional’ herding breeds Piper ….we are offering the clinic to any ANKC herding breed or herding cross which are all ‘traditionally’ herding breeds. The important thing is that the dog should suit the work for which it is intended, so it pays to know why a breed was originally developed as that will give the owner a good indication as to what ‘style’ of herding the dog would be more suited to, be it ‘A’’B’ or ‘C’ course.My breed was traditionally used as a ‘tending’ dog in Germany which the ‘C’ course is based on, so that would be the course for my guys….rather than the other two. I know people with breeds other than border collies and kelpies that have been to clincs where they have been told oh yes any breed is fine and definitely not been overly welcomed when they arrived. I am not saying Denise would do this at all, and the fact you are working with her indicates she probably has worked with other breeds so it would be worth mentioning as well. I can’t comment on that as I wasn’t there, but it sounds very unfair to me. If we felt that way we wouldn’t be seeking interest from members of these forums. Our aim to hold a clinic to raise funds for a herding club for South Western Victorians (and eventually affiliation with DogsVic), so we would encourage all types of herding dogs to have a go. I’m not working with her btw. As I said, traditionally GSDs are ‘tending’ dogs; hence my interest in ‘C’ course which is based on the European style rather than ‘A’ or ‘B’ course. Denise doesn’t have experience in that field, so if ‘C’ course was offered at a clinic (which I would love to be able to do) we would have to organize someone competent to teach it. As for what attracted me to a clinic with Denise - I had only just started with herding and was going to Vic for some trials and heard about it and decided to sacrifice a day of trials and do the clinic instead. I knew of her more from agility at that point. Her husband and fahter in law were also there. I probably did most of my work with John who declared my little show line girl as "not too bad." It was a compliment when he said his wife wouldn't mind a house dog and he would let her have 1 if he could be sure it would work like that, lol. I would take it as a BIG compliment. :p Do you still do agility? Theresa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meglet Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 If any of you lucky people get a chance to train with Denise jump at it - i only wish i wasn't so far away in NSW. She came up once to do a school that i organised and i have spent some time with her at her place. She is one of the most gifted trainers and teachers i have worked with and has the ability to think out of the box. Some of the exercises she showed us have been invaluable to me in training my dogs. karen (NSW) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meglet Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 also forgot to mention, Denise teaches all her dogs to drive as well. If any of you lucky people get a chance to train with Denise jump at it - i only wish i wasn't so far away in NSW. She came up once to do a school that i organised and i have spent some time with her at her place. She is one of the most gifted trainers and teachers i have worked with and has the ability to think out of the box. Some of the exercises she showed us have been invaluable to me in training my dogs.karen (NSW) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasha Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Automatic or Manual? I have a manual so it would be awesome if my dog could drive ME around for a change..................off to plan where to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 also forgot to mention, Denise teaches all her dogs to drive as well. If any of you lucky people get a chance to train with Denise jump at it - i only wish i wasn't so far away in NSW. She came up once to do a school that i organised and i have spent some time with her at her place. She is one of the most gifted trainers and teachers i have worked with and has the ability to think out of the box. Some of the exercises she showed us have been invaluable to me in training my dogs.karen (NSW) Denise at one stage was rying to get ISDS type trials up and running wasn't she? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meglet Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 haha ... i've got one who thinks he definitely should be in the driver's seat yes, denise was trying to get ISDS trials going. I hear there is talk that others may be resurrecting this - Merrilyn wallace in Vic and Gary Telford - not sure where he's from. I plan to contact them soon to see where they're at. They are planning on using the South African model as it worked for them when they made the switch to ISDS. There is a very good progression through the classes with the first level being a drive walking behind your dog - not sure if there is even a pen. also forgot to mention, Denise teaches all her dogs to drive as well. If any of you lucky people get a chance to train with Denise jump at it - i only wish i wasn't so far away in NSW. She came up once to do a school that i organised and i have spent some time with her at her place. She is one of the most gifted trainers and teachers i have worked with and has the ability to think out of the box. Some of the exercises she showed us have been invaluable to me in training my dogs.karen (NSW) Denise at one stage was rying to get ISDS type trials up and running wasn't she? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superminty Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 Had a great day training yesterday - apart from working other people's lovely dogs once again, I had a sublime session with Cash. He is now driving through the Y cute and up to the corner and is yielding beautifully when flanked, even in a drive. Even getting inside flanks, which is really hard for him. Only started cued flanks a little while ago so I am pleasantly surpirsed with how quickly he has picked it up. We did a little work holding three sheep off another three - pretty easy job with a heading dog! Then he did a nice "look back" to go and pick up the other mob and bring them all together. Loving his pen work - he is holding really nicely and calmly and his "walk up" is coming along - even looks like a typical kelpie! He used to be quite loose eyed but is using his eye more efficiently now. Still need to work on his speed on cold trials/first run of the day - he is a bit quick! Could go much quieter and not run the sheep over his handler I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 mmmmm that first run of the day after weeks/months of not seeing sheep - always interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 mmmmm that first run of the day after weeks/months of not seeing sheep - always interesting I know what that is like. At least Cole is past that excitement now and just comes out and works nicely no matter how long it is since he's seen sheep but it took a long time getting there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 mmmmm that first run of the day after weeks/months of not seeing sheep - always interesting I know what that is like. At least Cole is past that excitement now and just comes out and works nicely no matter how long it is since he's seen sheep but it took a long time getting there. I am preferring it to the - 'shove sheep in corner and hold them' trick that she did for the first year of herding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superminty Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 JulesP I worked a BC on Sat that wanted to do just that. Found myself giggling and thinking of Poppy. He just couldn't handle them moving! Everything was alright until they moved, then it was just all too much. Cash isn't actually noticeably crazier after a long time off sheep - he had been off sheep for about a year when we did Trudy's clinic and he wasn't too bad. Only problem is he has been just the same as that every single first run since, even with the more regular work. Of course, you only get to work on the first run once... My training notes all say "next session, work on speed" :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superminty Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 Fellow herders, help! I am currently racked with indecision! Do I enter for the upcoming A course trials on cattle or not? I am fighting a battle between YES: coz he will probably pass and then we will have our A course titles on sheep, ducks AND cattle (greedy me) and NO: wait and get his work more polished, while he should pass, it might not be pretty and there will always be more cattle trials. Argh Rain willing, we will have a practice run this weekend, which still leaves time to get entries in, but if training is cancelled due to rain, I think I am going to have to toss a coin and live with the outcome :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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