superminty Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 Most of the time that I camped I went with a friend and we would have 5 dogs in our 4 man tent together. I always laughed as I had the bed to myself and my 3 all tried to sleep with her. They know I like my space and not to get on my bed! Love it. My girl is like that - won't sleep on the bed or touching me. The kelpie on the other hand would be in the sleeping bag, using my pillow. I would be lucky to get a spot! Hence he sleeps in the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superminty Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share Posted January 5, 2011 Here is a quick clip of Cash working cattle the other day. He is still very puppy-like on them - lacking a little confidence I do believe But he is improving. He struggles with the bigger mob, he works 4 or 5 quite nicely, coz they stick together. When they string out, he gets a bit confused. Gotta love a heading dog, I never manage to actually take the cattle anywhere coz he just heads them off! Something else to work on. He is quite happy to let sheep "escape" now, and ducks to some extent, but when those cows take off, he can't resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Good job Superminty. I hope to try Poppy on ducks on the weekend. I have a feeling she isn't going to be interested. Might be wrong but I think she is all about the sheep! i am feeling really mean as I only plan to bring Poppy. It is such a handful trying to bring all the dogs though. And I just spent the Trudy clinic fretting about giving the other 2 time out of the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piper Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Good luck Jules. She might surprise you. Piper took to them immediately, straight into work mode and still intense. But her body language and facial expressions were different. Almost like it was fun as opposed to the serious business of sheep. If you didn't know her though and just looked at her working she looked to be working just as hard. I could see a difference though, she was sort of doing it all with a smile on her face Jazz on the other hand works them nicely now but.... she will always look for the sheep first. Her first couple of trials she lost points on the cast as she went to the fence trying to check out the other arena and not looking at the stock at all. Now she keeps 1 eye out on where she is going while doing a quick scan of the other area without modifying her path. Once she has established there is no option other than the ducks she then works them. She does modify how she works compared to how she works sheep. Runs closer to the ducks - but that could be due to the smaller area as she is still often on the fence. She is also less intent on them - I have to be careful as I can switch her off of them if I change the tone of my voice too much whereas Piper still blows me off, kind of like "yeah yeah whatever, having fun here" lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superminty Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) You might be surprised JulesP. The way a dog works sheep is often no indication of how they work ducks. Cash is very full on with the sheep (and cattle now it seems) but very very soft on ducks. Also much more intense. I also love how he adapts between stock types. If a sheep gives him a hard time, he is quick to step up and sort it out. With ducks however, it's as if he knows he can't go for a grip/bite - he was hissed at and pecked by one the other week and he was very patient - just held his ground and used eye to move the offending duck on. I was really proud of him Edited January 6, 2011 by superminty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I have noticed how different Cash is on ducks as compared to sheep. Poppy doesn't even look at the ducks when we walk through the duck paddock though. Will be interesting to see what she does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 They can take a while to turn onto ducks. Cole took a couple of sessions and still looks for sheep the first run every time we trial on ducks - we never have the opporunity to train on them between trials. He get very frustrated with them and shoves them with his mouth. His sister used to pick them up by the neck and put them where she wanted them when she first started on ducks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 They can take a while to turn onto ducks. Cole took a couple of sessions and still looks for sheep the first run every time we trial on ducks - we never have the opporunity to train on them between trials. He get very frustrated with them and shoves them with his mouth. His sister used to pick them up by the neck and put them where she wanted them when she first started on ducks. Love it, Janba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 How did the herding clinic go? A friend and I decided to head to Bathurst today to do some training seeing as Wattle Creek was cancelled. We had a great day working some young pups and working the older dogs on 3 sheep obstacles obstacles and lunch at the pub in the middle. It was a lovely relaxing and the dogs did some really lovely work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothieGirl Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) Herding camp was awesome. Bronte and I only worked on sheep as I wanted to consolidate what we were learning. Great improvement for both handler and dog thankfully. I had some 'aha' moments and got more of a handle on my own positioning. Just need to work more on my trust of her and improve improve improve all the other things we learnt. I'm sure the others will pop by at some point to give you their updates. Dog is stuffed and I'm really tired too, but also wired from the work we did, so relaxation time for me will come a bit later on tonight, someone else on the other hand has nailed it. Edited January 9, 2011 by SmoothieGirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Sounds like a great weekend. Trusting the dogs is a big and neccessary step and brings a lot of improvement. Cole has a reputuation (unfounded as he has never pulled wool) for biting and since I have started to trust him instead of panicking when he gets to close to sheep we have come forward in leaps and bounds. Today he pushed the sheep backwards through a race, and if he he was going to bite that would have been a perfect opportunity as the sheep were standining him up, instead he just kept the pressure up on the sheep and forced them back with his eye. One thing good that happened today is I finally think we have cracked the walking backwards off sheep rather than having to arc back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmkelpie Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 They can take a while to turn onto ducks. Cole took a couple of sessions and still looks for sheep the first run every time we trial on ducks - we never have the opporunity to train on them between trials. He get very frustrated with them and shoves them with his mouth. His sister used to pick them up by the neck and put them where she wanted them when she first started on ducks. Lol! When you first start on ducks has anybody ever had an issue with the dog being too forceful? I.e. You were worried they may harm the ducks? Tilly is still young (10mths) and gets incredibly hyper around things she can 'play' with. I would like to try her on ducks at some time but am a little worried that she would be dangerous. We had a rabbit that got trapped in our front paddock a while ago and although she did not try and eat it she ran it to exhaustion. I finally managed to call her off when she had it in a corner and was lying next to it play bowing and kelpie slapping it with her paw She did not seem the least bit interested in killing it like my BC would have. I think ducks would probably get the same reaction from her. I would guess it is just a matter of slow and careful introduction, but are some dogs just completely unsuitable to work on ducks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Well I am buggered! Apart from the herding I didn't sleep much in the car. I'm pleased with how Poppy is coming along on the sheep. No more shoving the sheep in the corner and holding them there. She has also picked up a little too much speed on the sheep so need to settle her down a bit. She needs a bit more distance off her stock too. Her last sheep run I was very pleased with as the sheep nicked off to their 'Mummy' who was standing watching. They went the length of the A course ring and Poppy went by herself and brought them back. Previously she had a very set distance that she would leave me. I was worried about the cast in the B course but looks like she will go the distance needed now. Had a go on the ducks too! Sitting outside the ring Poppy wasn't at all interested and was looking for sheep. Went in and it only took a tiny while for her to realise that she could herd the funny bird things. She thought they should be kept in a corner though, lol. So with a bit of training I think she would do the ducks. Watched some videos too of some US trials which was interesting. All in all a good weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MolassesLass Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) Does anyone know of what training is available in Qld these days? (for ANKC-type herding) I know someone wanting to try their dog. Edited January 9, 2011 by molasseslass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superminty Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 How did the herding clinic go? Camp was great - had a ball and worked some lovely dogs. Best part though was having Cash in the run inside the house yard with 10 other dog roaming around! All of whom went and said hello, and no nasties at all. He even was polite to the two puppies! A 12 week old Aussie Shepherd pup took a real shine to him - just sat down outside the run while Cash looked at me and barked as if to say "Get this puppy away from me!" In the meantime, the pup's sire was standing guard in the backgournd, ready to come to the rescue if need be. I reckon he figured the run was just a giant crate and he was perfectly safe, so he may as well be nice for a change. Was very pleased with my boy's behaviour, he didn't look askance at any dog once. One thing good that happened today is I finally think we have cracked the walking backwards off sheep rather than having to arc back. Question on this - do you mean walking backwards without taking his eye off the sheep? Would that be to get more distance? I would always ask my dog to release the pressure and flank back if I needed more distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Question on this - do you mean walking backwards without taking his eye off the sheep? Would that be to get more distance? I would always ask my dog to release the pressure and flank back if I needed more distance. Walk backwards while keeping his eye on the sheep. There are times when you want to ease the pressure a bit but not change the angle of force such as sometimes in the mouth of an obstacle or sometimes when driving. When he is fetching I do arc back to get distance. I actually expect him to never take his eyes off the sheep as if he does and they break he won't be quick enough to cover them properly and he responds to a break much quicker than I can command him to. This is on non dogged sheep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superminty Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 Question on this - do you mean walking backwards without taking his eye off the sheep? Would that be to get more distance? I would always ask my dog to release the pressure and flank back if I needed more distance. Walk backwards while keeping his eye on the sheep. There are times when you want to ease the pressure a bit but not change the angle of force such as sometimes in the mouth of an obstacle or sometimes when driving. When he is fetching I do arc back to get distance. I actually expect him to never take his eyes off the sheep as if he does and they break he won't be quick enough to cover them properly and he responds to a break much quicker than I can command him to. This is on non dogged sheep. Interesting. Different methods I guess. I get how you would want to ease pressure sometimes but I see a lot of dogs that walk backwards and the pressure does not actually diminish. I do use a balance cue so I can ask for a flank and re-position the dog exactly where I need him, so the angle stays the same, but the pressure has decreased. When flanking I expect the dog to only be checking in where the stock are. Most of the time he should have his gaze averted. Direct eye contact only occurs when I want pressure applied. With light stock, he would spend more time with his gaze averted than he would looking at the stock. I have never worked completely un-dogged sheep however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) Question on this - do you mean walking backwards without taking his eye off the sheep? Would that be to get more distance? I would always ask my dog to release the pressure and flank back if I needed more distance. Walk backwards while keeping his eye on the sheep. There are times when you want to ease the pressure a bit but not change the angle of force such as sometimes in the mouth of an obstacle or sometimes when driving. When he is fetching I do arc back to get distance. I actually expect him to never take his eyes off the sheep as if he does and they break he won't be quick enough to cover them properly and he responds to a break much quicker than I can command him to. This is on non dogged sheep. Interesting. Different methods I guess. I get how you would want to ease pressure sometimes but I see a lot of dogs that walk backwards and the pressure does not actually diminish. I do use a balance cue so I can ask for a flank and re-position the dog exactly where I need him, so the angle stays the same, but the pressure has decreased. When flanking I expect the dog to only be checking in where the stock are. Most of the time he should have his gaze averted. Direct eye contact only occurs when I want pressure applied. With light stock, he would spend more time with his gaze averted than he would looking at the stock. I have never worked completely un-dogged sheep however. Its the pressure bubble thing. If you imagine a bubble round the sheep at their ideal point of pressure. When the dog is outside the bubble they aren't reacting to the dog but he can still have his eye on them, at the edge of the bubble the sheep will react to the dog and ideally move of in the direction of the pressure and remain calm. Inside the bubble the sheep will react too strongly to the dog. I want my dog to work at the edge of the bubble though that doesn't always happen as he does like to come in too close particularly at obstacles. ETA I find that when my dog takes his eye of the sheep he is confused or uncertain of what I'm asking and then it is usually to give a quick glance at me as if to say "what the f**?" Edited January 10, 2011 by Janba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I guess the pressure wouldn't diminish by backwards steps if the dog was still in the flight zone. Perhaps that is the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) I guess the pressure wouldn't diminish by backwards steps if the dog was still in the flight zone. Perhaps that is the difference? Yes and as the flight zone is fluid so where the edge is is some circumstances is where it is in other spots. Stepping backwards can relieve pressure and settle sheep if they are suddenly feeling more threatened such as at the mouth of an obstacle. We are not talking about walking backwards for metres and metres but say 2-10 dogs steps. Edited January 10, 2011 by Janba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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