Pit Bull/amstaff Difference

[poodlefan]

Thanks for that geo, I've always enjoyed your responses. And as I watched this topic become increasingly off tangent , I learned you were/are in fact, a bystander - someone who doesn't own a pittie, but sees how it is really just a slippery slope. More non-pit owners should have an open mind like you. Because it's you guys that ultimately feel the pain as well (and have more pull politically).

When one of the tactics of the anti-BSL lobby was to offer governments statistics claiming that other dog breeds were more dangerous, is it any wonder they stood on their own?

I disagreed with those tactics and many others employed. None of them worked but they kept flogging deceased equines all over the country.

I have a very open mind and live in the one place in Australia where its still legal to own an APBT without restriction. I"ll fight to keep it that way but not using the tactics of old.

[geo]

Thanks for that geo, I've always enjoyed your responses. And as I watched this topic become increasingly off tangent , I learned you were/are in fact, a bystander - someone who doesn't own a pittie, but sees how it is really just a slippery slope. More non-pit owners should have an open mind like you. Because it's you guys that ultimately feel the pain as well (and have more pull politically).

When one of the tactics of the anti-BSL lobby was to offer governments statistics claiming that other dog breeds were more dangerous, is it any wonder they stood on their own?

I disagreed with those tactics and many others employed. None of them worked but they kept flogging deceased equines all over the country.

I have a very open mind and live in the one place in Australia where its still legal to own an APBT without restriction. I"ll fight to keep it that way but not using the tactics of old.

I agree PF, I was not personally aware of BSL when it was first introduced, i can certainly understand why people would be less than impressed with those tactics (no matter how factual it may be) maybe they thought dogs higher on the list wouldn't suffer the same stigma that still haunts the APBT because many of the dogs on the bite stats list aren't fighting dogs, and may have been safe from BSL, whereas it seems the government just took one look at all fighting breeds and decided they should ban them first.

You're certainly right that placing other breeds in the spotlight isn't the right way to go and I think many posters on this forum are hopefully moving away from saying things like, SWF's bite more than APBTs (even though it may be true)

[poodlefan]

You're certainly right that placing other breeds in the spotlight isn't the right way to go and I think many posters on this forum are hopefully moving away from saying things like, SWF's bite more than APBTs (even though it may be true)

As Ian Dunbar points out (discussing dog to dog aggression) it's not just about the number of incidents that happen but the severity of incidents. Any anti-BSL proponent who suggests that a SWF bite is likely to be a serious as an APBT one needs to rethink that.

Here's the best fact you can possibly offer about Breed Specific Legisation and community safety. BSL doesn't work. That's it.

Have a good look at the Calgary approach to dangerous dogs in the community - it worked beautifully because it targetted owners and dangerous dogs.

[Rysup]

There are PLENTY of AST's in the SHOW RING who are far bigger than 18-19 inches! Plenty. Just come to a Sydney show with a wicket.

Been there, Done that.

Can't really say I have seen many I would state were ''far bigger'' than the preferable 18''-19''. Repeat preferable

You sound disgruntled?

How tall are yours btw?

Disgruntled? I guess a little disappointed, but not really disgruntled. If a judge cannot work out size without a wicket then I wonder why they are there. But hey!

My current boy is 19 inches on the dot. There are plenty that are definitely far bigger. For me, any difference of more than 10% is too much. Regardless of breed.

[wiseguy]

Thanks for that geo, I've always enjoyed your responses. And as I watched this topic become increasingly off tangent , I learned you were/are in fact, a bystander - someone who doesn't own a pittie, but sees how it is really just a slippery slope. More non-pit owners should have an open mind like you. Because it's you guys that ultimately feel the pain as well (and have more pull politically).

When one of the tactics of the anti-BSL lobby was to offer governments statistics claiming that other dog breeds were more dangerous, is it any wonder they stood on their own?

I disagreed with those tactics and many others employed. None of them worked but they kept flogging deceased equines all over the country.

I have a very open mind and live in the one place in Australia where its still legal to own an APBT without restriction. I"ll fight to keep it that way but not using the tactics of old.

Absolutely!

Take the B.S. out of the anti BSL fight. Get people onside instead of offside.

It is the only way to be successful.

[wiseguy]

[quote

My current boy is 19 inches on the dot. There are plenty that are definitely far bigger. For me, any difference of more than 10% is too much. Regardless of breed.

What is the judge supposed to do with open ended standards?

Bull Terriers are same.

No gazetted height or weight limits.

At least the AST standard does stipulate a ''preferable'' height with proportional weight.

Judges should at least start at ''preferable'' & work from there.

''Preferable'' doesn't necessary guarentee success of course. There are many other features to consider.

So what to think about the UKC APBT standard with 100% differential in the weight?

Sorry, couldn't resist the opening.

[geo]

Thanks for that geo, I've always enjoyed your responses. And as I watched this topic become increasingly off tangent , I learned you were/are in fact, a bystander - someone who doesn't own a pittie, but sees how it is really just a slippery slope. More non-pit owners should have an open mind like you. Because it's you guys that ultimately feel the pain as well (and have more pull politically).

When one of the tactics of the anti-BSL lobby was to offer governments statistics claiming that other dog breeds were more dangerous, is it any wonder they stood on their own?

I disagreed with those tactics and many others employed. None of them worked but they kept flogging deceased equines all over the country.

I have a very open mind and live in the one place in Australia where its still legal to own an APBT without restriction. I"ll fight to keep it that way but not using the tactics of old.

Absolutely!

Take the B.S. out of the anti BSL fight. Get people onside instead of offside.

It is the only way to be successful.

Wiseguy, it's funny you agree with this (which i do too), yet in another of your posts you said that if an SBT or cross attacks a person then it is a pitbull!! your reasoning being it could never be a pure bred SBT that would attack a human. Therefore you're doing exactly what it is here that you're deploring hypocrite.

[rep628]

You're certainly right that placing other breeds in the spotlight isn't the right way to go and I think many posters on this forum are hopefully moving away from saying things like, SWF's bite more than APBTs (even though it may be true)

As Ian Dunbar points out (discussing dog to dog aggression) it's not just about the number of incidents that happen but the severity of incidents. Any anti-BSL proponent who suggests that a SWF bite is likely to be a serious as an APBT one needs to rethink that.

Here's the best fact you can possibly offer about Breed Specific Legisation and community safety. BSL doesn't work. That's it.

Have a good look at the Calgary approach to dangerous dogs in the community - it worked beautifully because it targetted owners and dangerous dogs.

Calgary is an inspiration to the Dogworld. I'm proud to be able to lay claim to that part of the world.

I think for a while, bully breed people were desperate to grab onto anything statistically that would show they didn't own the only thing on the planet that bites. But that tactic certainly does alienate many in the process. And I notice that people here Down Under more easily offend to a statement of an opinion/fact than those from Canada/States - I can wholeheartedly vouch for that on personal experience. I have to CONSTANTLY remind myself to say things nicely (like what I just said, I'm pretty sure that will rub someone the wrong way - whoops!). And I notice it when people mistake me for being American, they expect me to be so bothered by it. I'm not actually, and it can really make their heads spin. But I can remember doing to fight back in N. America, until things became more balanced, we were just desperate to show ANY kind of proof. Thankfully now, we can move away from the childlike, "Yeah, of course I was doing it... BUT HE WAS TOO!!" Finger-pointing blame game. But that's because everyone got on the same side of the fence.

It's one of the reasons why I love KC Dog Blog http://btoellner.typepad.com/kcdogblog/, he tells it like it is. But of course, with my recent interactions with Australians, I've noticed the style of his writing would bother some people. So people who are trying to change BSL here definitely need to take PF's stance - "BSL doesn't work. That's it"

Speaking of ACT, poodlefan: Does the ACT have any dog bite statistics (I know, dreaded statistics!) that are available to the public? As you said, as the only state where APBT can be owned without restriction, I'm sure they have the most accurate breed identification (and subsequent stats) of any state. It would be nice to send those stats off to councils of other states to show them how well things are going in a state without BSL. Clearly, you guys have been doing something right down there to avoid the tide that's swept up the rest of the Eastern States.

[poodlefan]

Speaking of ACT, poodlefan: Does the ACT have any dog bite statistics (I know, dreaded statistics!) that are available to the public? As you said, as the only state where APBT can be owned without restriction, I'm sure they have the most accurate breed identification (and subsequent stats) of any state. It would be nice to send those stats off to councils of other states to show them how well things are going in a state without BSL. Clearly, you guys have been doing something right down there to avoid the tide that's swept up the rest of the Eastern States.

I'm not sure the ACT is better at breed ID than anywhere else. Its just that no dog's life hangs on the process.

We're a Territory - only about 300,000 folk. About 42,000 dogs I believe.

Bite stats? I've never looked into it. I don't think there's much publically available but I might dig around.

Edited February 28, 2011 by poodlefan

[wiseguy]

Thanks for that geo, I've always enjoyed your responses. And as I watched this topic become increasingly off tangent , I learned you were/are in fact, a bystander - someone who doesn't own a pittie, but sees how it is really just a slippery slope. More non-pit owners should have an open mind like you. Because it's you guys that ultimately feel the pain as well (and have more pull politically).

When one of the tactics of the anti-BSL lobby was to offer governments statistics claiming that other dog breeds were more dangerous, is it any wonder they stood on their own?

I disagreed with those tactics and many others employed. None of them worked but they kept flogging deceased equines all over the country.

I have a very open mind and live in the one place in Australia where its still legal to own an APBT without restriction. I"ll fight to keep it that way but not using the tactics of old.

Absolutely!

Take the B.S. out of the anti BSL fight. Get people onside instead of offside.

It is the only way to be successful.

Wiseguy, it's funny you agree with this (which i do too), yet in another of your posts you said that if an SBT or cross attacks a person then it is a pitbull!! your reasoning being it could never be a pure bred SBT that would attack a human. Therefore you're doing exactly what it is here that you're deploring hypocrite.

Show me where?

Never, ever have I said such a thing. I have not even thought such rubbish.

You should get your facts straight before you accuse anyone of being a hypocrite.

More uninformed drivel.

Will it ever end?

EDIT.

To those who came in late.

BSL was not a sudden event. It was the final act of a long playing trilogy.

Pitbull owners in NSW had their chances to avoid the spectre of BSL. They ignored the warnings.

Then they became the targets of the volatile mix of a fed up, irate public & a politician trying to deflect heat from his lame duck administration.

They gave Bob Carr a chance to appear like he was doing something, & he took it.

After ignoring the chance to retain their dogs, to continue breeding, selling, trading for the sake of proper confinement & muzzles in public they were left screaming their tits off when the hammer fell.

You can't really feel a lot of sympathy for people who spit in your eye.

Edited February 28, 2011 by wiseguy

[geo]

You're certainly right that placing other breeds in the spotlight isn't the right way to go and I think many posters on this forum are hopefully moving away from saying things like, SWF's bite more than APBTs (even though it may be true)

As Ian Dunbar points out (discussing dog to dog aggression) it's not just about the number of incidents that happen but the severity of incidents. Any anti-BSL proponent who suggests that a SWF bite is likely to be a serious as an APBT one needs to rethink that.

Here's the best fact you can possibly offer about Breed Specific Legisation and community safety. BSL doesn't work. That's it.

Have a good look at the Calgary approach to dangerous dogs in the community - it worked beautifully because it targetted owners and dangerous dogs.

I agree, and I have read about Calgary.

As far as severity goes, sure SWF's will not cause as much damage as a large dog, and I'm certainly not suggesting that, (i know you're not saying i did, just clarifying).

[geo]

Thanks for that geo, I've always enjoyed your responses. And as I watched this topic become increasingly off tangent , I learned you were/are in fact, a bystander - someone who doesn't own a pittie, but sees how it is really just a slippery slope. More non-pit owners should have an open mind like you. Because it's you guys that ultimately feel the pain as well (and have more pull politically).

When one of the tactics of the anti-BSL lobby was to offer governments statistics claiming that other dog breeds were more dangerous, is it any wonder they stood on their own?

I disagreed with those tactics and many others employed. None of them worked but they kept flogging deceased equines all over the country.

I have a very open mind and live in the one place in Australia where its still legal to own an APBT without restriction. I"ll fight to keep it that way but not using the tactics of old.

Absolutely!

Take the B.S. out of the anti BSL fight. Get people onside instead of offside.

It is the only way to be successful.

Wiseguy, it's funny you agree with this (which i do too), yet in another of your posts you said that if an SBT or cross attacks a person then it is a pitbull!! your reasoning being it could never be a pure bred SBT that would attack a human. Therefore you're doing exactly what it is here that you're deploring hypocrite.

Show me where?

Never, ever have I said such a thing. I have not even thought such rubbish.

You should get your facts straight before you accuse anyone of being a hypocrite.

More uninformed drivel.

Will it ever end?

Wiseguy, 24th Feb 2011 BSL forum, page 9 of Hon. D. Boyle Kill amstaffs thread..

I quote. "If the incident involves another dog, I'm sorry the owner didn't keep his stafford under control. If the incident involves a person, I am sorry again the stafford is copping the blame for the deeds of some bogans pitbull".

So if a dog attacks a person that looks like a SBT, your words imply it isn't a SBT but a pitbull...?

Your words not mine. Please explain if this isn't what you mean.

So you did say it, my facts are straight, and IMO you were being hypocritical.

Time after time I'm saying I'll help you and SBT's just post something positive like a solution that we can all get on board with, instead of bloody whinging.

[Rysup]

How is this open ended?

Height and weight should be in proportion.

Height:

Dogs approx 46-48 cms (18-19 ins) at shoulders

Bitches approx 43-46 cms (17-18 ins) at shoulders is considered preferable.

It says approximately 18-19 inches. Not "any size you like" or " 18-19 but its ok if you go 24-25"? I do not see any open endedness here.

And just to be sure "approximate" means "fairly accurate but not totally precise". So yep, you can go a little bit bigger or smaller, but it is not open license for any size you like.

A quick scan through all the terrier group standards and a lot of them say "approximately" or "about" in reference to size. Yet I dont see any other breed being bred so far from standard as the AST.

As to the APBT size differences, I have no opinion except to say that's really just ludicrous.

Edited February 28, 2011 by Rysup

[wiseguy]

Thanks for that geo, I've always enjoyed your responses. And as I watched this topic become increasingly off tangent , I learned you were/are in fact, a bystander - someone who doesn't own a pittie, but sees how it is really just a slippery slope. More non-pit owners should have an open mind like you. Because it's you guys that ultimately feel the pain as well (and have more pull politically).

When one of the tactics of the anti-BSL lobby was to offer governments statistics claiming that other dog breeds were more dangerous, is it any wonder they stood on their own?

I disagreed with those tactics and many others employed. None of them worked but they kept flogging deceased equines all over the country.

I have a very open mind and live in the one place in Australia where its still legal to own an APBT without restriction. I"ll fight to keep it that way but not using the tactics of old.

Absolutely!

Take the B.S. out of the anti BSL fight. Get people onside instead of offside.

It is the only way to be successful.

Wiseguy, it's funny you agree with this (which i do too), yet in another of your posts you said that if an SBT or cross attacks a person then it is a pitbull!! your reasoning being it could never be a pure bred SBT that would attack a human. Therefore you're doing exactly what it is here that you're deploring hypocrite.

Show me where?

Never, ever have I said such a thing. I have not even thought such rubbish.

You should get your facts straight before you accuse anyone of being a hypocrite.

More uninformed drivel.

Will it ever end?

Wiseguy, 24th Feb 2011 BSL forum, page 9 of Hon. D. Boyle Kill amstaffs thread..

I quote. "If the incident involves another dog, I'm sorry the owner didn't keep his stafford under control. If the incident involves a person, I am sorry again the stafford is copping the blame for the deeds of some bogans pitbull".

So if a dog attacks a person that looks like a SBT, your words imply it isn't a SBT but a pitbull...?

Your words not mine. Please explain if this isn't what you mean.

So you did say it, my facts are straight, and IMO you were being hypocritical.

Time after time I'm saying I'll help you and SBT's just post something positive like a solution that we can all get on board with, instead of bloody whinging.

Quite simple really.

I thought anyone with reasonable powers of comprehension would have known.

The SBT victims of these oft reported misrepresentation would have in any case.

Perhaps I have over estimated you?

If a reported participant in a dog on dog incident is SBT, I accept the charge could quite possibly be correct.

Staffords can certainly be dog aggressive. there is not a SBT owner who would deny that.

In the case of anattack incident involving a human, show me the money?

I will bet London to a brick on it isn't a pure breed SBT.

Staffords, real ones, don't randomly attack people. Anyone who genuinely knows the breed would attest to that.

It's just another bogan protecting his sorry ass.

As is inevitably the case when the truth be known.

Kapish?

Recent tragedy in the UK, headline screamed ''SBT kills Grandchild''

Why did the SBT cop the rap?

Because that is what the owners told the press.

when the truth was known it was the poor little girls uncles ILLEGAL pitbull.

What do you call them over there? chavs?

A little kid pays the ultimate price for a morons fantasy.

But the lowlifes initial claim?

Was

Of course.

''He's a Staffordshire Bull Terrier''.

That is crap we have to put up with time after time.

And we have had enough.

'' and the good lord above created the world in 7 days..!!!''

6 days geo.

He rested on the seventh.

Wrong again pardner!

Edited February 28, 2011 by wiseguy

[wiseguy]

How is this open ended?

Height and weight should be in proportion.

Height:

Dogs approx 46-48 cms (18-19 ins) at shoulders

Bitches approx 43-46 cms (17-18 ins) at shoulders is considered preferable.

It says approximately 18-19 inches. Not "any size you like" or " 18-19 but its ok if you go 24-25"? I do not see any open endedness here.

And just to be sure "approximate" means "fairly accurate but not totally precise". So yep, you can go a little bit bigger or smaller, but it is not open license for any size you like.

A quick scan through all the terrier group standards and a lot of them say "approximately" or "about" in reference to size. Yet I dont see any other breed being bred so far from standard as the AST.

As to the APBT size differences, I have no opinion except to say that's really just ludicrous.

I agree with you. Pure breeds are under threat from without & within.

Just stay true to your breed. That's the ethical way.

The SBT standard was amended in 1987 when ''desirable'' was added to the height description.

It went from - 14''-16'' to ''Desirable'' height, 14''-16''

Ethical here breeders still consider 14''-16'' to be the genuine breed description & breed to it.

But hey, ''desirable'' is a vehicle for altering the breed.

Which is happening in the UK for example.

''Ludicrous' 'is an opinion btw

[geo]

So I was right about you being a hypocrite. You're ready to tarnish a breed already on it's last legs to save yours. but you agreed with PF's post, that makes you a HYPOCRITE!

I am not that owner in the UK, it hasn't happened here, and it is not every owner! to say you're putting up with this crap time and time again is complete lies and propaganda to protect yourself, look at the big picture.

You'll end up banning AST's as well the way you're going!

I was totally wrong about the lord making the world in 7 days and utterly apologise for my mistake.

[wiseguy]

So I was right about you being a hypocrite. You're ready to tarnish a breed already on it's last legs to save yours. but you agreed with PF's post, that makes you a HYPOCRITE!

I am not that owner in the UK, it hasn't happened here, and it is not every owner! to say you're putting up with this crap time and time again is complete lies and propaganda to protect yourself, look at the big picture.

You'll end up banning AST's as well the way you're going!

I was totally wrong about the lord making the world in 7 days and utterly apologise for my mistake.

Hypocrite?

I thought my opinions were quite obvious, I don't offer sychophantic answers while harbouring contrary ideas.

Tell it like it is. Whether you agree or not.

I played no part in the ''tarnishing'' of a ''breed''. That was completely self inflicted.

What you & your pitbull cronies fail to realise is that rules/ laws apply to everyone, not just those that agree with them

If your pitbull buddies had have complied with the initial rules set down they wouldn't be ''tarnished'' & reviled at all. They wouldn't have to suffer the BSL. They were to arrogant & ignorant to take the tip. Now they have to pay the piper.

They had their chances, they didn't take them.

I don't know how long you have been in the country, but there were horrific incidents involving ''pitbulls'' &, for the most part, children.

Two examples.

A little tacker walking home from school with his sister was attacked & mauled by a pitbull that jumped from the window of a dwelling & attacked him in front of mother. The dog was obviously out of its pen (if it had one) & should have been muzzled. (law)

A little girl was scalped by a pitbull when she approach a neighbours front door selling raffle tickets for her school. The owner opned the door, the dog attacked.

She had her scalp peeled from her forehead backwards toward the nape.

The reaction of people like you? Blame the parents. what sad people, really sad.

The tactic to take the heat off their ''breed''? Your pitbull people then denied their ''beloved'' ''breed'' & began calling them SBTs, xSBTs.

Judas'

I didn't ''tarnish the breed, you & yours did an admirable job of that all by yourselves.

The latest stratagem of course is, ''no one in the country can positvely ID a pit bull''. Pathetic.

And so ''the tarnish '' spreads.

''We'', despite your worst intentions, are endveavouring to prevent it spreading to ''Us''.

Hypocrite?

Look in the mirror.

Edited February 28, 2011 by wiseguy

[geo]

Look a quick search on google will also show many horrific SBT attacks. I'm not about to drag up horrific memories to serve my own purpose on a forum, I'll leave that low blow to you. Again nothing to do with me or "my people", but more likely a bad owner, and I certainly am not about to blame the parents.

I feel really sorry for you that you have to bring up horrific attacks like that to use those poor victims to prove a point on a forum. A point at which serves no purpose to your cause or indeed your argument.

11 months to December 2008 Freedom of Information: In Brisabne 145 SBT attacks, 13 AST, and 12 APBT. Now these include attacks on dogs. Each incident was thoroughly investigated taking an average of 37 days to complete, and that special care had to be taken especially when a dogs life or fine was on the line.

So by your reckoning none of those 145 SBT attacks couldn't of been by a pure bred SBT or on a person?. Again I'd happily fight these stats on your behalf to prove that it's not the breed but the deed and they do need to be investigated properly to ensure the attack and reasons why are recorded correctly.

The problem isn't responsible owners like yourself and I, but the many BYBers of SBT's, AST's and APBT's. SBT's must surely be one of the most popular breeds in Australia so more needs to be done on getting rid of BYBers, pet shops selling dogs, education etc etc..

Here's a challenge for you Wiseguy;

Post something positive. Try not to sling mud or call names. And thirdly, try to write a whole post without blaming the APBT for everything bad that is happening to the SBT, because it simply isn't true.

[wiseguy]

Look a quick search on google will also show many horrific SBT attacks. I'm not about to drag up horrific memories to serve my own purpose on a forum, I'll leave that low blow to you. Again nothing to do with me or "my people", but more likely a bad owner, and I certainly am not about to blame the parents.

I feel really sorry for you that you have to bring up horrific attacks like that to use those poor victims to prove a point on a forum. A point at which serves no purpose to your cause or indeed your argument.

11 months to December 2008 Freedom of Information: In Brisabne 145 SBT attacks, 13 AST, and 12 APBT. Now these include attacks on dogs. Each incident was thoroughly investigated taking an average of 37 days to complete, and that special care had to be taken especially when a dogs life or fine was on the line.

So by your reckoning none of those 145 SBT attacks couldn't of been by a pure bred SBT or on a person?. Again I'd happily fight these stats on your behalf to prove that it's not the breed but the deed and they do need to be investigated properly to ensure the attack and reasons why are recorded correctly.

The problem isn't responsible owners like yourself and I, but the many BYBers of SBT's, AST's and APBT's. SBT's must surely be one of the most popular breeds in Australia so more needs to be done on getting rid of BYBers, pet shops selling dogs, education etc etc..

Here's a challenge for you Wiseguy;

Post something positive. Try not to sling mud or call names. And thirdly, try to write a whole post without blaming the APBT for everything bad that is happening to the SBT, because it simply isn't true.

Puhleeeease,

What a pathetic reply,

"Don't bring up all they bad stuff the pitties did to in reply to my denial''.

Hypocrite,

It is obvious you weren't even in the country while this tragic drama played out.

It is obvious you weren't here when it seemed like every other day some innocent was chewed up by a pitbull.

It is obvious you weren't here when citizens buttonedholed their pollies demanding something be done.

It is obvious you don't comprehend that Joe Public not only demanded the BSL, he fully supports it because of the contempt for those JPs displayed by the pitty mob

It is obvious you have no idea of the circumstances that instigated the BSL in this country. Or any other country forr that matter.

It is obvious you don't comprehend that people, the victims, demanded the BSL.

It is obvious you support the misrepresentation of one ''breed'' to the detriment of others.

It is obvious truth, facts & playing fair are not on you agenda.

It is obvious ''we'' still need to watch our back.

For what it's worth, I have watched this drama unfold since the '80s when the pitbull first hit the headlines here as the meanest, fightingest dog on the planet!

Myth upon myth upon myth.

Puppies were selling for $10,000+

Redneck heaven. There wasn't enough puppies to go around.

It is obvious you weren't here then!

It was always a bomb with a wet wick.

Well, the wick finally burnt down, BOOM, the breed self destructed.

The pitty people could have snuffed out the wick at any time. They preferred to revel in the bad ass image.

The rest, as they say, is history.

[geo]

Puhleeeease,

What a pathetic reply,

"Don't bring up all they bad stuff the pitties did to in reply to my denial''.

Hypocrite,

It is obvious you weren't even in the country while this tragic drama played out.

It is obvious you weren't here when it seemed like every other day some innocent was chewed up by a pitbull.

It is obvious you weren't here when citizens buttonedholed their pollies demanding something be done.

It is obvious you don't comprehend that Joe Public not only demanded the BSL, he fully supports it because of the contempt for those JPs displayed by the pitty mob

It is obvious you have no idea of the circumstances that instigated the BSL in this country. Or any other country forr that matter.

It is obvious you don't comprehend that people, the victims, demanded the BSL.

It is obvious you support the misrepresentation of one ''breed'' to the detriment of others.

It is obvious truth, facts & playing fair are not on you agenda.

It is obvious ''we'' still need to watch our back.

For what it's worth, I have watched this drama unfold since the '80s when the pitbull first hit the headlines here as the meanest, fightingest dog on the planet!

Myth upon myth upon myth.

Puppies were selling for $10,000+

Redneck heaven. There wasn't enough puppies to go around.

It is obvious you weren't here then!

It was always a bomb with a wet wick.

Well, the wick finally burnt down, BOOM, the breed self destructed.

The pitty people could have snuffed out the wick at any time. They preferred to revel in the bad ass image.

The rest, as they say, is history.

Ok guess you weren't up to the challenge, guess you never will be. Anyway while you wallow in self "pitty" I'll help the people who're keen on "moving forward" (sorry Julia).

I was in the UK when BSL played out there so I am well versed in it's effects, the victims etc.. so there goes that argument.

Re-read my previous post and try again, if you fail, get back on that keyboard and try again, because i know you can write a nice post.

EDIT: Sadly I cannot control all APBT owners, neither could the responsible ones at the height of their demise. If it is so easy to snuff out the wick, why are you so intent on blaming everything on the APBT and the few good owners left.. why not just snuff out the issue by yourself, or do you need a bad guy to blame? because I'm not the bad guy here. Neither I may add are you.

It seems that unless you can control all SBT owners, you could end up in the same position...The simple fact is you cannot control every BYBer/bogan etc.. out there, nor can I.

Edited March 1, 2011 by geo