Lets Talk About Recall

[ILoveBoundaries]

So Arny is Buff, Sharon is in crazy good shape for a 40 year old (and even does a few crazy Kung Fu moves on Arnie), but the dog still won't come back.

The little puppy is now 11 months (CKCS) and recall is not his strongest training point. Very good at other things, not so good at recall. The OH can't get him in from outside at all, whereas I resort to the shake of the 'treats tin' and naturally, in he trots (Dude thinks with his stomach).

Would really like to get to a stage where you call him, and no matter where you are or distractions around him, he hears you and returns. So give me the basics, because reward/praise training isn't working when you don't have the treat tin. If he could give me the bird, he would (but will happily heel, sit, shake, stay).

ILB

[Cosmolo]

Buy the DVD Really Reliable Recall.

[corvus]

It's totally worth the money.

[bedazzledx2]

Pretty much the same system for free http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/Lesson6.html

I have used this system for all my dogs after my first dog gave me the furry finger!!!! Just remember the recall command you will use under stress should be the same as what you teach. It becomes a conditioned response and the dog (if trained correctly and thoroughly) will turn and come without thought.

[spottychick]

Pretty much the same system for free http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/Lesson6.html

I have used this system for all my dogs after my first dog gave me the furry finger!!!! Just remember the recall command you will use under stress should be the same as what you teach. It becomes a conditioned response and the dog (if trained correctly and thoroughly) will turn and come without thought.

That's exactly what it is. Tango does that to me every time I take him on an off-leash walk hahahahaha

Good tip re thinking about the recall command in an emergency. I have an aversion to yelling out the word "come" in public - sorry but I can't help it. And when I think about it I actually yell out "Tango here" or "Pepper Come HERE" So "here" is really the word I should use for this training. Thanks for that. I tend to follow the "right" instructions too much some times.

And thanks for the link. I was following this thread in the hopes of getting help with Tango and when I read suggestions to buy stuff I just thought "Oh no! I can't spend MORE money on these dogs. I'm already broke and have to keep money aside to get the pup de-sexed". I just don't have a bottom less wallet - or spangly purse for that matter.

[aussielover]

Pretty much the same system for free http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/Lesson6.html

I have used this system for all my dogs after my first dog gave me the furry finger!!!! Just remember the recall command you will use under stress should be the same as what you teach. It becomes a conditioned response and the dog (if trained correctly and thoroughly) will turn and come without thought.

Did you use a shock collar on them?

I don't have a problem with the appropriate use of a shock collar but I do think anyone who is not experienced should seek the help and direction of a professional when using one.

And her brag at the start about a 15 week old puppy recalling from other dogs, isn't that fantastic and not a great example imo. At that age, the pups aren't yet pushing the boundaries. My puppy also had perfect recall at that age, it is only now we are having some slight issues (6 months) so its back to the long line.

[Cosmolo]

Wow, i didn't realise Shirley Chong used e collars.

As Shirley said, for most dogs- the earlier steps will be sufficient.

[persephone]

IMO Recall is not just an isolated exercise.

Recall begins when your puppy toddles up to you for a pat . THEN you say "here", or "To me" or "Come"... and praise.

repeat repeat repeat.

Will your pup react to a whistle? Often they will - as it is a different different sound..

While pup is inside .. have a treat ready , and whistle . When he looks at you , whistle again, and show him the treat .use his name- and either whistle again, or say 'here' etc.

When he comes - even if it is only a metre.. lots of immediate praise.

repeat repeat .

THEN .. start doing it when pup is perhaps in another room... then backyard.

NEVER chase puppy.

ALWAYS reward for coming to you.ALWAYS.

Use recall when feeding, when inviting puppy onto his bed/your couch....

RECALL is a means by which a pup gets reward.

If he won't come in when called- shut the door .

NO conversation.

After a while .. go out calmly and call/whistle .. show him the treats.Just once ...and NO extra talking/attention.He needs to just concentrate on what you are wanting.

If there is no response... leave him there - with no conversation.

Once he DOES ...and it may take a while .. he gets his treat and lots of play/praise.

May I recommend you do the N I L I F program with him, too.... Nothing In Life Is Free . That way he gets used to only getting treats/praise when what he does is what he is asked

At present , a shaking treat tin means "Come Here" You have to now train him to associate a word with 'come here'

have fun.

[kiesha09]

Pretty much the same system for free http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/Lesson6.html

I have used this system for all my dogs after my first dog gave me the furry finger!!!! Just remember the recall command you will use under stress should be the same as what you teach. It becomes a conditioned response and the dog (if trained correctly and thoroughly) will turn and come without thought.

Bedazzled I was fairly sure that you were a positive trainer so I'm thinking that you never had to get to the e-collar stage - do correct me if I'm wrong.

Since you have used this program before do you have any suggestions of what you would do if you did have a dog that got to the e-collar stage without using an e-collar?

[Staranais]

I like Shirley Chong's philosophy - she says something along the lines of she's not a fanatic about clicker, but is a fanatic about good recalls. & also that in most cases, the clients that bring dogs to her specifically to use ecollar don't actually ever end up needing it, they achieve a recall just by going back to positive foundation work.

She sounds really sensible to me.

[bedazzledx2]

Good God No!!!!! If you follow the instructions you will find there is no need to go to that extreme. Also you will find at the top of the page that this method is under review and to please keep that in mind when you read it. I would think that refers to the shock collar. This was written many, many years ago and Shirley was well before her time with this method. She broke things down and split when every one else was still lumping. I'm pretty sure she has been unwell....I haven't been on her list for a few years and I haven't seen a lot of change on these pages. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water!!! It is an extremely good method and worth doing properly.

Pretty much the same system for free http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/Lesson6.html

I have used this system for all my dogs after my first dog gave me the furry finger!!!! Just remember the recall command you will use under stress should be the same as what you teach. It becomes a conditioned response and the dog (if trained correctly and thoroughly) will turn and come without thought.

Did you use a shock collar on them?

I don't have a problem with the appropriate use of a shock collar but I do think anyone who is not experienced should seek the help and direction of a professional when using one.

And her brag at the start about a 15 week old puppy recalling from other dogs, isn't that fantastic and not a great example imo. At that age, the pups aren't yet pushing the boundaries. My puppy also had perfect recall at that age, it is only now we are having some slight issues (6 months) so its back to the long line.

Edited October 21, 2010 by bedazzledx2

[bedazzledx2]

Yes you are right and I am a positive trainer and no I don't use a shock collar. When I found this method I had a naughty, naughty, naughty Kelpie around 8 months of age who had not been taught a proper recall... only a namby pamby club/ trial type one which didn't hold up in real life!!!!!

So she had been self rewarding by ignoring me and enjoying games with other dogs and kids while I was yelling and tearing my hair out!!!! I never needed to go to extremes with this because, like most dogs, she was sane but not well trained (my bad!) I think shock collars belong in the professionals hands for very few dogs.

My recall mantra is first time, every time!!!!!

Pretty much the same system for free http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/Lesson6.html

I have used this system for all my dogs after my first dog gave me the furry finger!!!! Just remember the recall command you will use under stress should be the same as what you teach. It becomes a conditioned response and the dog (if trained correctly and thoroughly) will turn and come without thought.

Bedazzled I was fairly sure that you were a positive trainer so I'm thinking that you never had to get to the e-collar stage - do correct me if I'm wrong.

Since you have used this program before do you have any suggestions of what you would do if you did have a dog that got to the e-collar stage without using an e-collar?

[kiesha09]

So would you not let them off lead at all outside the home while training the recall? I don't want to create a situation where when he eventually does get let off lead he thinks 'wooohhoooo I'm free!!!!!!!!' so I don't really want it to be a novel thing but I do want first time, every time!

[Staranais]

So would you not let them off lead at all outside the home while training the recall? I don't want to create a situation where when he eventually does get let off lead he thinks 'wooohhoooo I'm free!!!!!!!!' so I don't really want it to be a novel thing but I do want first time, every time!

That's what longlines are for. You can let them drag & the dog hardly knows he isn't free.

[aussielover]

Good God No!!!!! If you follow the instructions you will find there is no need to go to that extreme. Also you will find at the top of the page that this method is under review and to please keep that in mind when you read it. I would think that refers to the shock collar. This was written many, many years ago and Shirley was well before her time with this method. She broke things down and split when every one else was still lumping. I'm pretty sure she has been unwell....I haven't been on her list for a few years and I haven't seen a lot of change on these pages. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water!!! It is an extremely good method and worth doing properly.

Ok, thanks for clarifying that! I was a bit shocked myself to see the bit about shocking them at the end. everything else sounded really sensible though!

Should you reward a slow recall?

My pup used to have pretty much 100% recall, it was like a conditioned response for her, she would hear her name followed by "come" and then just stop whatever, turn around and run back to me. Pretty cute.

These days, she is a little more challenging, sometimes she will stop, look back at me, and then slowly saunter back to me sniffing the ground the whole way. I am really torn between rewarding her for at least coming back (especially if it is off a big distraction like food) even if it is slow. I usually just give her a piece of kibble for these sorts of responses.

But I have heard you don't reward slow recalls?

[Aidan3]

If anyone genuinely follows Shirley's program and doesn't haven't extenuating circumstances (very high prey drive dog they walk in the bush, for e.g) I would be amazed if they would need the e-collar. If they did honestly get to that point and needed it, I would suggest professional guidance. I'm not sure how many people use the e-collar in the way it is used in Shirley's program these days, you can be more gentle doing things a little differently.

If you have dawdling recalls, don't reinforce them. But make sure you take things back a few steps and shape a bit more speed in. It's fairly easy to elicit a bit of extra speed by jogging backwards, tossing the treat or toy behind you and things of that nature, but remember that these will become cues so you really need to make sure you still get the speed even when you haven't done these things.

[megan_]

So would you not let them off lead at all outside the home while training the recall? I don't want to create a situation where when he eventually does get let off lead he thinks 'wooohhoooo I'm free!!!!!!!!' so I don't really want it to be a novel thing but I do want first time, every time!

Long line or train in a fenced place. Reliable Recall advocates lots of off leash when training - just in safe places

[spottychick]

Yes, when I read Shirleys article I got to the end and just thought that "shock" collar was only a very extreme circumstance and I would be going back to the basics rather than moving into that area. I usually just take what I need and think is good from anything like that and if there's something I disagree with I just leave it out But if I got to that level of desperation I'd probably either resign myself to never getting a recall (which I might have to do with Tango LOL It's okay we manage pretty well with a long line most of the time) or - especially with a young dog like DYlan - get some professional help LOL

It looked like really good advice in the rest of the article

And thanks for the added tips Aiden!!

[gila]

Okay I'm going to give Shirley's program a go. With my 9 yr old dog who has never had a good recall lol.

[spottychick]

Okay I'm going to give Shirley's program a go. With my 9 yr old dog who has never had a good recall lol.

Cool Gila!!! We should compare notes coz I'm trying it with the pup AND my 9 year old adoptee.