Ruff Love By Susan Garrett.

[whitka]

Has anyone done the Ruff Love program? What did you think of it and did it work?

[Agility Dogs]

Has anyone done the Ruff Love program? What did you think of it and did it work?

Not totally, but I took about 75% of it and used it for my boy. (After working for a week with Linda Orton-Hill.)

We didn't do it for aggression, we did it for a performance dog who was not performing. It was AWESOME - the results we achieved in the space of a month were nothing short of incredible. (He still has a lot of the principles applied in his life, just not quite as rigidly all the time.)

I have also used it with my new puppy and she is going brilliantly.

It is hard/harsh, but definitely works.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Agility Dogs

[Aidan]

I know people who have, they found it a bit hard to follow strictly so I couldn't tell you whether it would have worked or not but I think that says something about the program. If you really need it (i.e you really need to set very clear boundaries) then you might be highly motivated to follow it and it would seem worth it.

[B-Q]

What does it involve?

[Agility Dogs]

I know people who have, they found it a bit hard to follow strictly so I couldn't tell you whether it would have worked or not but I think that says something about the program. If you really need it (i.e you really need to set very clear boundaries) then you might be highly motivated to follow it and it would seem worth it.

Agree - to follow it very strictly would be nigh on impossible unless you had all day every day to devote to it. Remember - Susan developed it for one of her dogs that was very chllenging and her business is dog training.

In a REALLY short form it basically involves removing ALL reinforcement from your dog's life, other than what comes from you. (They are crated with access to bones and water for most of the first couple of weeks.)

As their focus moves more and more to you and they start to understand that you control all resources and they are not to beg, bully or (in my boy's case) manipulate you or anyone else for them they get more and more privileges back.

It is VERY full on and even what I did with my boy was challenging for us to keep consistent with, but I did get some really good results from setting clear boundaries and making sure he knew EXACTLY what was acceptable and what was not. He is happier, has more drive and is considerably more focussed on me.

NOTE - I can be just a touch obsessive about things so would probably find it easier than most to follow the program.

[whitka]

Thanks for the replys, I just got the book and have just started reading it. I think this is what my boy might need.

[B-Q]

Thanks AD.

[bedazzledx2]

I'm another one who uses this and NILIF to the degree I need it. It depends on your dog and your relationship and what you are wanting to achieve. My BC was a bit of a law unto himself at one stage in his early training and this type of restriction worked well for him. I didn't go the full deal though as it wasn't necessary for us at that time.

[kiesha09]

Agility dogs which parts of it did you not implement?

I have read the book and implemented parts of it but I found it VERY hard to stick to. If I didn't work and could devote all my time to it then maybe it could work. But to be honest I just cannot justify crating my dog for 10 hours a day at least while I'm at work.

[Agility Dogs]

Agility dogs which parts of it did you not implement?

I have read the book and implemented parts of it but I found it VERY hard to stick to. If I didn't work and could devote all my time to it then maybe it could work. But to be honest I just cannot justify crating my dog for 10 hours a day at least while I'm at work.

That was the bit that I didn't do. I just kept him inside the house for a few weeks and crated when I was at home.

I also didn't do the head collar thing - not because I don't like them (I do - sorry to those who don't), but because we didn't think he needed to go to that extreme.

For us it was less about bringing him under control or managing aggression and more about making him realise that if I asked for something it was going to happen NOW. NOT if he felt like it or when it suited him. He is a very soft dog who would use his 'softness' to get a free ride back to his crate - 'If I shut down, I'm going to get put into my crate - cool'. So, basically we implemented it all apart from the bones and head collar when I was home.

For practical reasons he was allowed access to our other dog, but it was limited.

I loved the games that you progress to and still use them as a basis for our training every morning. (We train for 20 to 30 mins with the 3 dogs in the middle of our morning walk. This gives the puppy a good rest and gives us a chance to train effectively - the balance between drive and self control is excellent imo.

ETA - we came up with all of this working with Linda who works for Susan and undertands the program well. There are still areas of his performance that I could improve with more work, but I am happy with where he is at for the most part and he is never going to be the best in the world so we do let him get away with a bit and just make sure it is all fun for him. I am a little more strict with the girls who are both a lot pushier and have a lot more drive than he does.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Agility Dogs

[whitka]

For us it was less about bringing him under control or managing aggression and more about making him realise that if I asked for something it was going to happen NOW. NOT if he felt like it or when it suited him.

This is the issue im having with my boy and hopefully that will change soon.

[whitka]

I'm another one who uses this and NILIF to the degree I need it. It depends on your dog and your relationship and what you are wanting to achieve. My BC was a bit of a law unto himself at one stage in his early training and this type of restriction worked well for him. I didn't go the full deal though as it wasn't necessary for us at that time.

What is NILIF and what does it involve?

[pie]

Nothing In Life Is Free

Have a read of this link:

http://www.k9pro.com.au/pages.php?pageid=100

[pie]

Think I need to re-read this book, I was thinking about doing something along the Ruff Love lines but crating while I was at work put me off.

Did you still take your dogs to training etc?

[bedazzledx2]

Nothing In Life Is Free http://www.dogguide.net/nilif.php

[Agility Dogs]

Think I need to re-read this book, I was thinking about doing something along the Ruff Love lines but crating while I was at work put me off.

Did you still take your dogs to training etc?

Absolutely, but the rules were the same. When you are not working you sit in your crate - covered to keep stimulation to a minumum. When you come out of your crate you are working at 110% until you go back in there and get covered again. For CK this meant starting with just 30 seconds of work and running him straight back in there.

He can now work for 10 minutes or so before he switches off.

One of the keys to what we did (and the whole system) is not to allow the poor behaviour in the first place. In his case this meant he wasn't worked for long enough that he had the chance to shut down. If he came out and wouldn't work I basically pushed him until I got something vaguely resembling what I was asking for. The one that sticks in my mind was one night at flyball I asked him to tug in the middle of team training - he decided he would prefer to play flyball so we left training and went to the carpark until he decided to tug. He immediately got to run back in there and play.

Just before anyone asks - we also only asked for behaviours we knew he understood so that we were not beating him up for things he didn't understand - only for trying to drive the bus himself.

We also did a lot of shaping during the exercise (and still do). We did this to teach him that it is Ok to make a mistake and try again.

I did stop taking both of them at the same time though. This was less about him and more about making sure I didn't have an out. My girl is a LOT more fun to train and as a result I tended to just let him go to his crate and get her out. Only having the one dog stopped me doing this and made me focus on him.

[Red Fox]

For us it was less about bringing him under control or managing aggression and more about making him realise that if I asked for something it was going to happen NOW. NOT if he felt like it or when it suited him. He is a very soft dog who would use his 'softness' to get a free ride back to his crate - 'If I shut down, I'm going to get put into my crate - cool'. So, basically we implemented it all apart from the bones and head collar when I was home.

This sounds exactly like Kei how did you work through that problem?

[Agility Dogs]

For us it was less about bringing him under control or managing aggression and more about making him realise that if I asked for something it was going to happen NOW. NOT if he felt like it or when it suited him. He is a very soft dog who would use his 'softness' to get a free ride back to his crate - 'If I shut down, I'm going to get put into my crate - cool'. So, basically we implemented it all apart from the bones and head collar when I was home.

This sounds exactly like Kei how did you work through that problem?

Rules, rules and more rules. If I tell you to do something you do it - no option. BUT.......because I can't/won't use correction I had to go backwards quite a few steps and work on motivation for tasks I know he enjoyed and understood and make sure I worked him for VERY short periods. In the process transferring value from the good (in his head) to the not so good/challenging.

We also did a lot of shaping so the worked out it was OK to fail and if you did fail and tried again you got a BIG reward.

He is still a work in progress, but this is the type of work I am getting from him now.........