Hypothetical Male/female Ratio Question

[Rehnagaede]

Hi there.

I've thought of a hypothetical scenario for the future for my girlfriend and myself if we were to live on a country property.

The question is: what ratio of male/female dogs should we have?

The background information is that we want to have around about four dogs, two for her, two for me; we'd just like to know if there's a special process or setup to have, whether more males or more females.

For the amount of experience we have in regards to owning four dogs, I myself haven't owned a dog before, but would certainly like to, and my girlfriend has quite a lot of experience.

I also realise that it might be difficult to hypothesise the ratio when considering the different breeds that go well to each type of ration, and it's also harder since we haven't named any particular breeds so you're unable to say right off the top of your head.

If you've had any experience with this at all, it would be helpful if you were to tell us how you've fared.

Any opinions are welcome, but please, constructive only.

[Parkeyre]

If you are planning on desexing them then it shouldn't matter what ratio in my experience.

Entire dogs are a LOT different to desexed ones and different breeds have different traits and temperaments.

I have had four dogs at once, they were two desexed males and two entire males (rotti crosses and pedigree border collies).

The entire males had a lot of fights and were seperated. they have all since passed away.

When I moved out of home I had a dexed mutt male, and an entire bitch, followed by an entire dog.

Again, the entire dogs had some issues, although not significant.

The entire male was desexed and now lives with my mum.

We then bought another entire male and he was fairly dominant.

Due to not meeting the breed standard he was desexed and his temperament has changed immensly.

We now have two entire bitches and two desexed males.

The boys get along famously as do the girls, but in my limited experience; the desexed pets have gotten along much better then the entires.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Parkeyre

[Jimmay]

I've had up to four dogs at once (due to fostering) without any issues. When I was kid and had three dogs, one of them being an entire bitch, I do recall a lot of issues being caused by her.

[Mim]

I live with multiple dogs. When I had 4 there were 2 females and 2 males. One of the males was still young so hadn't yet been desexed. We had no issues except that if the girls were around each other at meal time then the younger one would challenge the older one and she'd get really worked up. Simple solution; separate the dogs at meal time. No more issues.

My old girl has since died and we currently have 2 desexed males and a desexed female and everything's fine. I believe that it's due to their personalities/temperaments though, not their genders. I am sure I'd have the same balance amongst my pack even if they were all boys, all girls, 2 girls and 1 boy, what ever. One dog is dominant and the other two are fine and submit to her and then amongst those two there is one who is more submissive than the other so they have their ranks sorted out and there's no tiffs. I would not add another dominant dog to the mix though.

[Sayly]

If you are planning o desexing them it wont matter what ratio in my opinion.

Entire dogs are a LOT different to desexed ones.

Perhaps if you are talking about breeds like Aussies which are generally easy to get along with, other breeds can be a bit different. For example, with the Irish, if someone already has a desexed male I would be strongly recommending a female, and vice versa.

ETA: Our biggest issues are caused by our desexed bitch.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Lyndsay

[Parkeyre]

If you are planning o desexing them it wont matter what ratio in my opinion.

Entire dogs are a LOT different to desexed ones.

Perhaps if you are talking about breeds like Aussies which are generally easy to get along with, other breeds can be a bit different. For example, with the Irish, if someone already has a desexed male I would be strongly recommending a female, and vice versa.

ETA: Our biggest issues are caused by our desexed bitch.

Sorry let me better clarify my post.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Parkeyre

[Esky the husky]

Depends on a lot I guess.

If your planning on showing then they'll need to be kept intact.

Will they be inside with you or kenneled in runs outside?

[Jumabaar]

Hi there.

I've thought of a hypothetical scenario for the future for my girlfriend and myself if we were to live on a country property.

The question is: what ratio of male/female dogs should we have?

The background information is that we want to have around about four dogs, two for her, two for me; we'd just like to know if there's a special process or setup to have, whether more males or more females.

For the amount of experience we have in regards to owning four dogs, I myself haven't owned a dog before, but would certainly like to, and my girlfriend has quite a lot of experience.

I also realise that it might be difficult to hypothesise the ratio when considering the different breeds that go well to each type of ration, and it's also harder since we haven't named any particular breeds so you're unable to say right off the top of your head.

If you've had any experience with this at all, it would be helpful if you were to tell us how you've fared.

Any opinions are welcome, but please, constructive only.

I think differences in ages is just as important as the sex ratio. I would suggest trying to space only at least the first 2 well so that you can put the time into your first dog to get them well trained so that the next one does not pick up bad habits. This will give you a chance to develop as leaders of your pack so there will be less difficulties when you add to it. I have two boys and three girls but they are 18mths-2yrs apart. That way my eldest is well in control of the pack but there wont ever be a massive age difference so there will never be an uprising so to speak.

I am also careful with what personalities I add. I already have a very dominant bitch, so will only be looking for girls she will get along with- she has never been in a fight because she doesnt need to :D. I currently have my eye on a future mating that will produce another male that will fit perfectly into my pack!! Thus far mine are all entire and with the exception of the two boys not being left around each other when I am not home just in case, they get along reasonable well. I just wish I had a bigger age difference between the boys as I feel that had they not been so close they would be best buddies!

When looking at a second breed I made sure it was compatiable with the one I already had

[ellz]

May I just ask WHY an inexperienced dog owner would be looking at owning as many as 4 dogs straight up anyway?

Honestly, you may just be better off considering one, two at a pinch initially to see how you go as dog "parents" before you bite off more than you can chew and get so many at one time! Some people find one dog a handful, without planning to get so many from the get-go. Just because you want to, or do, live on a country property doesn't mean that dog ownership will be any easier. Personally, I find that living on a country property after many years in suburbia is a lot harder when it comes to dog ownership and I consider myself a relatively experienced dog person.

Personally, I'd be looking at a desexed of either to begin with, do your apprenticeship and then add others from there IF you really feel that you want to, need to and can cope with more dogs.

Many will disagree but I HATE running entire bitches together. The word bitch didn't come from a nice place, believe me!!!

[Mystiqview]

More than one dog creates a pack. Simple. The more dogs you have the more complex the pack structure.

The best thing is to match the temperament of the existing dog to the dog you are wanting to bring in. I know people who can successfully run a group of entire male stud dogs with out a problem. I know of another who cannot run two entire bitches together and blames the whole thing on one to the point where she rehomed it.

It is also how you manage your dogs. If you are not the "boss" so to speak, then they will constantly question your leadership and fight for control and in many cases win without you even knowing it.

I am currently running one entire male and three whole females without a problem in a suburban back yard. Two bitches are breeding bitches and one has just finished a litter and the other is pregnant and about to drop a litter. I don't have problems at food time or "that time" as I am able to manage my dogs and they all know where they sit in my pack structure.

My dogs are inside/outside and are allowed on the couch. (many say a big no no). But I do not have a problem with authority with them. They know their place and are spoiled at the same time.

Establish your "house rules" early and stick to them.

[Christina]

Silly to get 4 dogs all at once if you are not used to them.

If you are 4 pups is fine, but not the best idea, but not 4 adults.

Only ever had 2 entire females that would fight but only about once a year, with no warning.

All desexed have always been ok.

I can never keep 2 entire males together, they have always fought once older so have to keep seperate.

Having more than 2 would not allow you to spend enough individual time with each one, which is essential.

Depends on breed too. Mine are not a breed that fights or has aggression really. Also small enough to part quickly if things go wrong.

I would not like to try & seperate 2 large dogs that are trying kill each other.

[oakway]

Unless you are breeders of pure bred dogs and wish to become recognized breeders with your states controlling body and sit exams to hold a prefix the dogs you have should be de sexed and it will not matter what the sexes are.

[Jimmay]

Just to clarify guys, the girlfriend he is referring to is me.

We would not be owning 4 dogs at once, I already own two, he wants to get his own dog one day so that would make it three. I do want to own a purebred of my own one of these days so that may push it up to four, but that would be a long way down the track.

No there are no intentions of breeding.

The purebred i'm looking to get would either be an Amstaff (which i'm reconsidering due to dog aggression issues) or a Leonberger, in which case he/she would have to be left entire until two years of age when their bone growth plates close up properly.

I've owned multi-dogs quite a bit in the past and never had an issue apart from when I had an entire bitch who would pick fights with the desexed bitch, but that never became too much of an issue due to the size difference.

[poodlefan]

Breed WILL matter. So will age and sex.

What breed is Rehnagaede looking at getting?

[Jimmay]

Breed WILL matter. So will age and sex.

What breed is Rehnagaede looking at getting?

A German Shepherd, or a Lab.

[poodlefan]

Breed WILL matter. So will age and sex.

What breed is Rehnagaede looking at getting?

A German Shepherd, or a Lab.

Very different dogs - he'll need to really focus on what he's looking for in a dog.

Socialisation, training and management all matter. SkySoaringMagpie made a comment to me the other day that resonated. She said that no successful mulitdog household exists without effective management. Issues like balancing one on one time with pack time, resources, feeding and walking routines all need to be factored in. So do vet bills - more dogs equal more of those.

Every dog you add to the mix creates more management challenges. Hasten slowly. I'd be spacing the dogs out a couple of years apart.

[LizT]

I've seen this scenario a few times before. Just let your relationship evolve and enjoy YOUR dogs before you add any more to the mix. I've known too many people move in together, get a dog, and then go their separate ways. I realise no relationship comes with guarantees (I'm twice married myself) but take your time and let him become accustomed to dog ownership through your dogs first. See how things unfold from there. A "new child" can put demands on a relationship...oh and just because it is a country property doesn't mean the local council will allow 4 dogs...check this first.

Enjoy getting to know each other in a new environment first.

[B-Q]

I agree with LizT, add dogs slowly. We have 4 here currently. 2 males, 2 females. Males are desexed, females arn't but hopefully within a couple of years both will be.

Buster is mine, he is an almost 8 year old kelpie mix.

Mac is my sisters , she is an almost 5 year old kelpie/mini foxy mix.

Harry is my mothers, he is a 4.5 year old ACD/BC

Quinn is mine, she is a 5 month old BC.

Buster and Quinn will come with me when I move out, our own dogs are our own responsibility. I buy dry food, my mother buys the meat, I pay my own vet bills, training fee's and train in my own way. Not interfering too much with each others dogs is what works for us.

[Miranda]

Moving to a country property doesn't mean that it's easier to own dogs, there are two main things to consider, council regulations and fencing.

I've lived on acreage and IMO the most important thing you need is a well fenced, secure house yard, allowing your dogs free access to 20, 30 or more acres is asking for trouble. Remember that country fences are made of wire and dogs can go through, over or under them and if a dog escapes onto someone else's property it risks being shot. Don't make the mistake of thinking that your dogs won't wander because if they're not confined they almost certainly will, especially if there's a pack of them. It can take less than a minute for a dog to get out and disappear. Also be aware that more land doesn't mean that you can have more dogs, some councils still limit numbers regardless of how much land you have.

If I were you I wouldn't rush into anything, just keep the two you have and see how you go.

[Rehnagaede]

Thank you all very much for giving sound advice, I will surely take everything into consideration.

The main reason for the country property was so there could be more than two dogs, but as said above, I'd have to check with council regulations. A clarification for the "country property"; it wouldn't be a huge property, so to speak, thinking about an acreage or thereabouts, but of course, there'd still need to be fence checks and so on.

As for owning all four dogs at once, that isn't what I had in mind, and while I realise that I'm lacking in the experience of owning a dog, I've been around Pixie and Tyson for a while, and I'm getting used to them. Of course, that still doesn't mean I'm experienced much, and when I move out of home, I intend to research up on breeds to see what would be best for me. But it needs to be remembered that it won't be just me with four dogs.

All the dogs will be desexed as well, since it's not really necessary to have them otherwise.

Establishing the rules is another thing I will have to research upon, as I'm not quite sure of what would be necessary to do. I've observed eating time rules, where dogs aren't allowed to eat until their owners allow them to, and to always keep eye contact with their owner, so I will be taking those on board.

@Esky: As far as I'm guessing, the dogs will be both inside and outside.

@Poodlefan: The reason for the Lab and the German Shepherd, is that to start off with, a Lab would be good for an inexperienced owner like myself, or so I have read, and the German Shepherd is my dream dog, which I hope to get at a later date.

@LizT: I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying there, because as much as I have been with Pixie and Tyson, I still need more time to get used to them, and vice versa. They already miss me and go hyper whenever I come over and visit, but I need to strengthen the bond I have between them and myself. I think the hardest thing is that I haven't been around them for long enough, and since they've already been taught the rules and know who the boss is, I'm sort of an outsider who only gets given a glance and the barest hint of acquiescence. That's not to say they don't listen to me; they do, it's just that on the whole I've only really scratched the surface.