Playing Tug With A Dog

[Diva]

If you have just started tug and you are convinced it's bad aim I'd go for gloves until he gets more experienced with it, and get somone to check your technique in case something you are doing inadvertently is causing him to target the hand end.

If it's deliberate maybe it's not the game you need to be playing with him at this point. Or maybe a flirt pole would be better.

[aussielover]

Mason is far from fat! No offense Mas, but i don't think that photo you posted is the best of him- perhaps the angle?> I have seen others on the lab thread where he looks like he has more of a waist and is leaner etc.

Are you trying to train him "in drive" ? I believe K9pro has a program to help evalaute if your dog has potential for this type of training.

I teach new commands/tricks using food with Mindy.

But i reinforce them using toys. I usually work her up before I do this though, I run around like mad thing with the toy and then "tease" her a bit with it. I find she is very motivated to do whatever I ask after this little "session".

She used to accidently bite me sometimes when she was lunging for the toy, but if she did this I'd just end the fun. so she learnt not to do it. They are bound to make a mistake every now and then, but it shouldn't be a frequent occurence imo.

I did notice that when she plays with other dog friends, she likes to get up very close to them so they are almost mouth to mouth!

But if mason works best for food and is uninterested in toys, you may as well stick with food

My aussie was not into toys at all either- she would just stare at them (and me) and be like "what do you expect me to do with that"

But she was fanatical about chasing her ball.

[Vickie]

Have you got a video camera Mason?

Is it possible to load up a tugging session on Youtube & post it here?

There are lots of reasons during tug that a dog might put it's teeth on you. Very hard to diagnose & advise without seeing what is going on.

[Mason_Gibbs]

No I dont have a video at the moment. I am seeing the instructor from the heeling seminar we went too a few weeks ago in about 4 weeks, I will ask her opinion or email her as she is very clued up and may have some ideas. I also think that with the heat now its playing a huge part, i train before 7 in the morning but even then it seems to hot for him, in winter I got way more effort from him.

[Erny]

If you have just started tug and you are convinced it's bad aim I'd go for gloves until he gets more experienced with it, and get somone to check your technique in case something you are doing inadvertently is causing him to target the hand end.

If it's deliberate maybe it's not the game you need to be playing with him at this point. Or maybe a flirt pole would be better.

I agree with Diva.

Teaching the game of tug takes a bit of time.

The first phase is building the dog's drive for it. During this phase there is no way you want to issue a correction in any shape or form during the game. So yes .... gloves are the way to go. I copped quite a number of accidental dental injuries on my hands from my boy's teeth way back in the very early days. Of course you use your hand placement as best as you can to avoid them, but that just doesn't always happen.

The second phase is the beginning of letting your dog know that the accidental tooth connection to skin is not desirable. I started by at first ignoring the very slight accidents and reacting only to the more obvious ones. A squeel; a hurt look/crying on my face; "finish" and me going inside was all it took (a few times) for my dog to begin to realise that teeth + skin = game over. By this phase, my boy was well and truly hooked on the game and well understood the word "finish". I don't know about others, but when I "finish" on a good note, he gets a food treat and we're still bestest friends. When I "finish" on a not so good note, there are no food treats and I ignore for a bit.

From there we progressed to even a slight accidental tooth on skin being enough to end the game.

I then pushed it further - I began to close the gap in on the tug with my hands.

I can now release him to the tug but once he realises that my hands are in the way - even if he realises at the last minute, he'll refuse the tug.

Gloves helped me during the early times of this training. I still need to get some as I am constantly helping other people and their dogs teach/learn the game of tug. But I don't need them for my own dog any more.

I wouldn't give up on the game of tug because of a few knocks - my dog and myself have benefited incredibly because of the game of tug as training reward. But that's me.

[bedazzledx2]

Have you ever played any shaping games with him Mason? I had pretty much the same issue with my boy in that he would give in and not play or if he did he would crocodile me!!!! I didn't play tug with him for years for that reason and he is VERY food motivated so I really didn't need it. I was given a challenge to teach him to play tug a while ago so took it up and shaped it just like dumbbell but without the throw. I didn't wave it around in his face, I used a clicker and did it step by step and in the process taught him exactly where to place his mouth. I also learned how to present it to him for my safety. Your instructor (yes she is very clued up!!!) can explain it to you or you can email me and I can go through it with you. I now have huge enthusiasm for the tuggy with good manners as well and it doesn't take very long to teach. Just another way to go about things

No I dont have a video at the moment. I am seeing the instructor from the heeling seminar we went too a few weeks ago in about 4 weeks, I will ask her opinion or email her as she is very clued up and may have some ideas. I also think that with the heat now its playing a huge part, i train before 7 in the morning but even then it seems to hot for him, in winter I got way more effort from him.

[Mason_Gibbs]

Have you ever played any shaping games with him Mason? I had pretty much the same issue with my boy in that he would give in and not play or if he did he would crocodile me!!!! I didn't play tug with him for years for that reason and he is VERY food motivated so I really didn't need it. I was given a challenge to teach him to play tug a while ago so took it up and shaped it just like dumbbell but without the throw. I didn't wave it around in his face, I used a clicker and did it step by step and in the process taught him exactly where to place his mouth. I also learned how to present it to him for my safety. Your instructor (yes she is very clued up!!!) can explain it to you or you can email me and I can go through it with you. I now have huge enthusiasm for the tuggy with good manners as well and it doesn't take very long to teach. Just another way to go about things

No I dont have a video at the moment. I am seeing the instructor from the heeling seminar we went too a few weeks ago in about 4 weeks, I will ask her opinion or email her as she is very clued up and may have some ideas. I also think that with the heat now its playing a huge part, i train before 7 in the morning but even then it seems to hot for him, in winter I got way more effort from him.

I have done some shaping but none with the tug or dumbell, I was usually using a ball to play with before training but decided to try tug so that he is with me and not running after a ball away from me, I have only being trying to tug for a few weeks now and everytime he misses and gets my hand I give it up for a week because I dont feel like getting scratched etc again. Mason loves food it is what makes his world go round and he would do anything for it which is why I have been working on jackpots with him and I use that as a reward very often too. I will definitely try shaping the tug behaviour I want with the clicker though, did you use food as a reward after the click or a game?

[Tiggy]

Mason2009 do you ever drag the tug along the ground and have him chase it then grab it from there rather than have him reach up to grab it. Just a thought? He's not fat either , I've seen him in person and he's a nice lean Lab.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Some dogs just aren't that interested in certain kinds of games.

But you can transfer the value they have for one thing (eg food or balls) to something else, ie alternate between a food game or retrieve and tug, play tug (nicely), get a food treat. Work up from slow tug to fast enthusiastic tug but kill the game if he puts teeth on you. I know he doesn't mean to but there also needs to be incentive to encourage him to be more careful - and he can. Try a tug with a longer handle - like a horse rope lead. Or tie a rope to the tug to keep your hands out the way.

But the methods you're trying to get him excited read a bit like "training in drive" to me. And for that, you focus first on finding what gets the dog excited, and work on from there to get him excited about being and working with you. So if tug is not it, start with what is, and work from there. So it might be chase the food or retrieve then a bit of tug, or obedience and then a bit more food...And if you can join the excitement with a trigger word - so much the better.

[Mason_Gibbs]

Mason2009 do you ever drag the tug along the ground and have him chase it then grab it from there rather than have him reach up to grab it. Just a thought? He's not fat either , I've seen him in person and he's a nice lean Lab.

Yip I do that often but he wants the part in my hand for some strange reason.

[bedazzledx2]

I rewarded with food. Remember to split the behaviour down to its smallest components just like dumbbell training. The biggest test for him once the behaviour was on cue, was for him to tug for breakfast! Very hard for my foody boy but once that hurdle was over he really understood.

Have you ever played any shaping games with him Mason? I had pretty much the same issue with my boy in that he would give in and not play or if he did he would crocodile me!!!! I didn't play tug with him for years for that reason and he is VERY food motivated so I really didn't need it. I was given a challenge to teach him to play tug a while ago so took it up and shaped it just like dumbbell but without the throw. I didn't wave it around in his face, I used a clicker and did it step by step and in the process taught him exactly where to place his mouth. I also learned how to present it to him for my safety. Your instructor (yes she is very clued up!!!) can explain it to you or you can email me and I can go through it with you. I now have huge enthusiasm for the tuggy with good manners as well and it doesn't take very long to teach. Just another way to go about things

No I dont have a video at the moment. I am seeing the instructor from the heeling seminar we went too a few weeks ago in about 4 weeks, I will ask her opinion or email her as she is very clued up and may have some ideas. I also think that with the heat now its playing a huge part, i train before 7 in the morning but even then it seems to hot for him, in winter I got way more effort from him.

I have done some shaping but none with the tug or dumbell, I was usually using a ball to play with before training but decided to try tug so that he is with me and not running after a ball away from me, I have only being trying to tug for a few weeks now and everytime he misses and gets my hand I give it up for a week because I dont feel like getting scratched etc again. Mason loves food it is what makes his world go round and he would do anything for it which is why I have been working on jackpots with him and I use that as a reward very often too. I will definitely try shaping the tug behaviour I want with the clicker though, did you use food as a reward after the click or a game?

[Rusky]

I used a ball which is attached to a tug ( my toy not his) I used the ball as he is ball motivated but I needed him to tug. I taught "give " and "hold" before tug using a variety of objects as he doesn't hold a ball but drops it and nose nudges it. The combination worked well with also teaching "gentle" I started in the middle with ball play as he was my foster dog and I wanted to make sure he could get excercise in his new home. He retrieves anything now and when I first started to train obedience heelwork I kept the ball in my pocket. It really is a case of finding what works for you and your dog. You may need to do a bit of work on mouthing, he should never touch your hands but my boy did when he first came to me.I worked hard on his mouthing. It is a bit like trying to do everything in combination.

http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/teach...bite-inhibition

This works I use it for all foster dogs regardless of age

[Mason_Gibbs]

I used a ball which is attached to a tug ( my toy not his) I used the ball as he is ball motivated but I needed him to tug. I taught "give " and "hold" before tug using a variety of objects as he doesn't hold a ball but drops it and nose nudges it. The combination worked well with also teaching "gentle" I started in the middle with ball play as he was my foster dog and I wanted to make sure he could get excercise in his new home. He retrieves anything now and when I first started to train obedience heelwork I kept the ball in my pocket. It really is a case of finding what works for you and your dog. You may need to do a bit of work on mouthing, he should never touch your hands but my boy did when he first came to me.I worked hard on his mouthing. It is a bit like trying to do everything in combination.

http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/teach...bite-inhibition

This works I use it for all foster dogs regardless of age

He does not mouth at any time, he gets excited,tries to grab the tug and sometimes gets my hand, once he has the tug in his mouth all is well its just the latching on part. Its probably my fault as I tease him with it by waving it around etc so that he is interested in it and wants to play.

[huski]

What do you do when he grabs your hand?

[Mason_Gibbs]

What do you do when he grabs your hand?

I stop playing

[Nekhbet]

mason I'll PM you tonight when I have time. When playing with tug toys you need to teach your dog to target as well so you dont end up bitten. I have all my dogs play tug of war with me and I never have a problem because they have all been taught which part to bite when a toy is presented

ETA it is not the teasing that is the problem it is the manner in which the play has been taught. The dog has not been taught this is a structured exercise and hence grabs whatever.

Prey work is not too common in Australia compared to a lot of other places hence many people do not get to see the process of conditioning a dog to take a prey reward properly.

Edited October 19, 2010 by Nekhbet

[Steve K9Pro]

I have been trying to play tug with my dog before we do obedience training - the trouble is that he wont just grab the tug and start playing I have to really swing it around, run around with it etc otherwise he is just not interested. What is now happening is that he keeps grabbing my hands by mistake and I am getting injured as his teeth are sharp - he lets go as soon as he feels that he has my hand but its SORE!!

Any suggestions? SHould I maybe try something else with him game wise?

BTW it makes no difference how long the tug is - I have one thats nearly a meter long but he still wants the part i am holding.

K9: I would suggest that you may have played too long and he learned to bite your hands to get control of the game, I would be using a thin, long tug and a pair of gloves so you wont flinch when he goes near your hand.

I would then start moving my hand to where he would bite and end the training session the second he touched your hand,.