Latest News On Syringomyelia In Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.

[Dellcara]

jed i find this post of yours offensive and unnecessary.

Such is the frustration that many of us have with Bet constantly twisting what people say on any forum she can find.

In fact Bet has already misquoted posts from this list on another forum that none of us are allowed to join.

I don't find this post offensive at all. No-one likes to be mis-quoted.

I have tried to respond where possible and be informative to the questions that were reasonable and genuine.

This is my final post on this topic. If anyone wishes to ask me for any information they can "pm" me.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Dellcara

[Bilbo Baggins]

:laugh: Well said Jed. I would love to scan all mine would do it in a heart beat if it was $100.

But it is not so I instead breed carefully as we all do.

[Jed]

Trying to understand syringo makes my brain hurt. I have read heaps of stuff, from Rusbridge, from Purdue, Irish Veterinary College, and now from Finland (spanks, Shortstep) and none of it particularly agrees with anything else.

I honestly feel that this should never have been put in the public arena. It's a difficult issue to understand, and people with no dog knowledge have no hope at all, unless they are neurologists. All putting the syringo issue in the public domain has done is made people fearful. Breeders who know about syringo will tell puppy buyers. Breeders who don't know or care wont tell buyers and never will. As they will not tell about MVD.

The website of every Cav club website, pretty well every ethical breeders' site (and many unethical ones) gives info on SM and MVD - so any buyer who didn't make a snap decision to buy a cav pup from the pet shop should have that information.

And a lot of what is in the public arena is untrue.

Nothing that has been done so far has reduced the incidence of SM as far as I can see.

People are blaming breeders for SM - because they don't understand the problem, which is incredibly complex. I often wonder whether the researchers understand it. They certainly don't agree with each other on it.

And despite REPUTABLE breeders only using heart clear dogs for the past umpteen years, I understand from Bet that the incidence of MVD has not reduced in 30 years. I wonder whether the dogs scanned are only properly bred pups from tested parents, or pups from every old second rate puppy farmer who never tests? I have no idea,

I haven't even seen the figures quoted, but have to wonder which dogs were giving these results.

Cavaliers are beloved of shonky breeders and puppy farms. Easy to keep, very easy to sell, small, don't need a lot of grooming, and don't protest if locked up in airline crates 24/7. and I do wonder whether the figures are skewed.

You know my best and favourite breed is the boxer? Boxers are not hugely popular in Aus, and although they are bred by byb quite a bit, it is more a litter here and a litter there. And quite a few byb get ironed out and go to registered dogs, or drop out of breeding.

And the breed is not favoured by puppy farms at all. Boxers have no particular issues - can have cancer (which I don't believe is hereditary), some may have skin issues, and cardiac myopathy can be an issue, but not a huge one. Most of the breeders are pretty switched on and do care. You rarely hear of an unhealthy boxer

In the Us, where there are many byb and puppy farms (many more than AKC registered breeders, as with many breeds here and ANKC breeders), and boxers are, I think No 6 in the popularity chart, they seem to suffer from CM and just about everything else 10 times more than boxers in Aust. And diseases I have never heard of a boxer having.

I have concluded from that with pf and lots of byb, comes problems which properly bred dogs do not have. Just an opinion, but based on experience and observation. Maybe the first and second generations away from pedigree are healthy - but then breeding continues to the 5 th and 6th generation by people who do not understand the breed, know very little about it, don't care about conformation or health, and just chuck 2 dogs together. Neither knowing or caring, except that they will produce a saleable product.

Until we differetiate pf and unreg from reg dogs, we are not going to get ahead on any diseases which do not have a readily obvious DNA marker. Until the public learns to differentiate between registered and not, registered breeders are on a hiding to hell.

I don't jump up and down about pf and DD - not my problem, and if that's what people want, so be it. The only issue I have with pf is the way the dogs are kept and i have huge issues with that.

I think people should consider the comparison I have made above - and the situation with both classes of dogs. And I think that should be factored into any health discussion. And this is not a criticism of Bet Hargraves, but a general observation, partricularly on Aust conditions.

LATEST NEWS ON SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIELS

If I could answer Jed's Post,where she mentioned that the Cavalier Buying Public should not have been made aware about the Two Serious Health Problems afflicting Our Cavaliers , I think that the Folk Buying Cavaliers should be being made aware about those Problems, then it will follow on that the Question is being asked of Cavalier Breeders ,are they Health Testing and following the Cavalier Breeding Recomendations on their Cavalier Breeding Stock, and if the Cavalier Breeders are not doing this, then any-one wanting a Cavalier should go to a Cavalier Breeder who is doing this.What else can be being done at the moment.?

Bet Hargreaves

HOW DARE YOU MISQUOTE ME? CAN'T YOU READ? IF YOU THINK THAT IS WHAT I SAID, I THINK YOU NEED GO BACK TO GRADE 2 - AND LEARN COMPREHENSION.

BUT YOU DID UNDERSTAND WHAT I WROTE. YOU ARE SIMPLY CAUSING TROUBLE AGAIN.

YOU CONSTANTLY VISIT FORUMS AND LIST, MISQUOTING INFORMATION UNTIL YOU ARE BANISHED AND THEN YOU CHOOSE ANOTHER ONE.

YOUR INTENTION IS TO HAVE THE GOVERNMENT BAN THE BREEDING OF CAVALIERS, AND I REALLY DO THINK YOU MAY ACHIEVE IT.

It's always been too easy to sit on the sidelines and ridicule those doing the work, without contributing one iota to it. It's easy to criticise, Bet, but it is more difficult to do it - and do it right.

I don't see any evidence anywhere that you have done anything good for the breed at all. All you do is try to bring it down. Incidentally, you didn't answer my post, all you did s misquote me. Not good enough, try to bring a modicom of commonsense and worthwhile information to the discussion, will you?? The "latest news" is either the old news rehashed to suit your machievellian design, or more up to date news, skewed your way.

Yep, Delcara is correct, we have been around the SM mulberry bush so many times that many of us are giddy.

Bottom line is that no one has much idea why SM happens, no one has much idea how to prevent it, breeders are doing all they can to provide dogs for scanning so that the way forward may be clearer - at their expense. People like Bet Hargraves sit on the sidelines, contribute nothing, but snivel and complain.

Jaxxs Buddy

i think all dogs should be scanned but with careful breeding (not just 2 A's together) and scanning of progeny just maybe we would have enough data to figure out what is happening.

Realistically, consider the expense. Breeders in Sydney can take advantage of the scanner which the Cavalier breeders obtained so dogs in Aus could be scanned (Please note, Bet Hargraves, feel free to contribute some funds towards the purchase of the next one? They aren't cheap, and as you seem to have so much to say, I am sure you would like to help us out here. We'd all be grateful.).

However, for anyone not near Sydney, you can say min of $1500, max of $2000. Use $2000 as the figure - pretty well everyone charges about $1400, getting yourself and dog to Sydney, accommodation, blah blah. $2000. So $4000 to scan the parents. 4 pups, wait until they are 2.5 yrs, scan them, $8000. So you have coughed up $12000 just in scans. Looks good - except - if as LizT says, scans dont indicate anything. $12,000 is a lot of money to spend - and still not be able to guarantee that if you breed the parents, or the pups, they will not throw SM. You couldn't even guarantee that the pups would continue to be A past 2.5 years.

And you are currently paying to have all you dogs heart scanned annually by a specialist cardiologist. You have had the patellas of the parents checked, and x rayed if your vet wasn't 100% confident with his examination.

This is a minority disease in this country amongst registered cavaliers. Yes, it does crop up occasionally, but so does mega oesophagus, non hereditary heart murmurs, leukemia, and auto immune diseases which have no hereditary component. Now, Bet, you can scuttle whereever you wish, and tell everyone and anyone you like that I am against MRI-ing. Good luck to you.

As this was brought to the public domain, I think it is much better if "the public" and dog owners are given correct information.

jed i find this post of yours offensive and unnecessary.

That's OK Jaxx's Buddy. You are not the one who was misquoted and made to look like someone uncaring, when I was actually trying to explain the problem. I am sorry you are offended, but it is not your integrity which is in question and none of my last post was directed to you. Everyone skirts around everything because they don't want to be labelled as Bet Hargraves just labelled me. I don't care much, but I am am not allowing it to pass

Thanks BB - yep, we would have all them done if it cost $100 --- and probably none of us would object too much to the cost of scanning if there was a definitive answer coming from it. There is not. My cav dog, from lines where I can find no dog with SM, who has no syrinxes and has never thrown a pup with SM could do so in any future litter. It is something all breeders have to face

Thanks Delcara

As Delcara I am exiting this thread. It's a shame that attempts to help people understand are met with the sort of rubbish which went on here. If you want to learn, try the Cavalier websites as a beginning, and go from there. Don't think that you will learn from Bet Hargraves, you wont, but feel free pm Delcara if you like, or me.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Jed

[bet hargreaves]

Trying to understand syringo makes my brain hurt. I have read heaps of stuff, from Rusbridge, from Purdue, Irish Veterinary College, and now from Finland (spanks, Shortstep) and none of it particularly agrees with anything else.

I honestly feel that this should never have been put in the public arena. It's a difficult issue to understand, and people with no dog knowledge have no hope at all, unless they are neurologists. All putting the syringo issue in the public domain has done is made people fearful. Breeders who know about syringo will tell puppy buyers. Breeders who don't know or care wont tell buyers and never will. As they will not tell about MVD.

The website of every Cav club website, pretty well every ethical breeders' site (and many unethical ones) gives info on SM and MVD - so any buyer who didn't make a snap decision to buy a cav pup from the pet shop should have that information.

And a lot of what is in the public arena is untrue.

Nothing that has been done so far has reduced the incidence of SM as far as I can see.

People are blaming breeders for SM - because they don't understand the problem, which is incredibly complex. I often wonder whether the researchers understand it. They certainly don't agree with each other on it.

And despite REPUTABLE breeders only using heart clear dogs for the past umpteen years, I understand from Bet that the incidence of MVD has not reduced in 30 years. I wonder whether the dogs scanned are only properly bred pups from tested parents, or pups from every old second rate puppy farmer who never tests? I have no idea,

I haven't even seen the figures quoted, but have to wonder which dogs were giving these results.

Cavaliers are beloved of shonky breeders and puppy farms. Easy to keep, very easy to sell, small, don't need a lot of grooming, and don't protest if locked up in airline crates 24/7. and I do wonder whether the figures are skewed.

You know my best and favourite breed is the boxer? Boxers are not hugely popular in Aus, and although they are bred by byb quite a bit, it is more a litter here and a litter there. And quite a few byb get ironed out and go to registered dogs, or drop out of breeding.

And the breed is not favoured by puppy farms at all. Boxers have no particular issues - can have cancer (which I don't believe is hereditary), some may have skin issues, and cardiac myopathy can be an issue, but not a huge one. Most of the breeders are pretty switched on and do care. You rarely hear of an unhealthy boxer

In the Us, where there are many byb and puppy farms (many more than AKC registered breeders, as with many breeds here and ANKC breeders), and boxers are, I think No 6 in the popularity chart, they seem to suffer from CM and just about everything else 10 times more than boxers in Aust. And diseases I have never heard of a boxer having.

I have concluded from that with pf and lots of byb, comes problems which properly bred dogs do not have. Just an opinion, but based on experience and observation. Maybe the first and second generations away from pedigree are healthy - but then breeding continues to the 5 th and 6th generation by people who do not understand the breed, know very little about it, don't care about conformation or health, and just chuck 2 dogs together. Neither knowing or caring, except that they will produce a saleable product.

Until we differetiate pf and unreg from reg dogs, we are not going to get ahead on any diseases which do not have a readily obvious DNA marker. Until the public learns to differentiate between registered and not, registered breeders are on a hiding to hell.

I don't jump up and down about pf and DD - not my problem, and if that's what people want, so be it. The only issue I have with pf is the way the dogs are kept and i have huge issues with that.

I think people should consider the comparison I have made above - and the situation with both classes of dogs. And I think that should be factored into any health discussion. And this is not a criticism of Bet Hargraves, but a general observation, partricularly on Aust conditions.

LATEST NEWS ON SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIELS

If I could answer Jed's Post,where she mentioned that the Cavalier Buying Public should not have been made aware about the Two Serious Health Problems afflicting Our Cavaliers , I think that the Folk Buying Cavaliers should be being made aware about those Problems, then it will follow on that the Question is being asked of Cavalier Breeders ,are they Health Testing and following the Cavalier Breeding Recomendations on their Cavalier Breeding Stock, and if the Cavalier Breeders are not doing this, then any-one wanting a Cavalier should go to a Cavalier Breeder who is doing this.What else can be being done at the moment.?

Bet Hargreaves

HOW DARE YOU MISQUOTE ME? CAN'T YOU READ? IF YOU THINK THAT IS WHAT I SAID, I THINK YOU NEED GO BACK TO GRADE 2 - AND LEARN COMPREHENSION.

BUT YOU DID UNDERSTAND WHAT I WROTE. YOU ARE SIMPLY CAUSING TROUBLE AGAIN.

YOU CONSTANTLY VISIT FORUMS AND LIST, MISQUOTING INFORMATION UNTIL YOU ARE BANISHED AND THEN YOU CHOOSE ANOTHER ONE.

YOUR INTENTION IS TO HAVE THE GOVERNMENT BAN THE BREEDING OF CAVALIERS, AND I REALLY DO THINK YOU MAY ACHIEVE IT.

It's always been too easy to sit on the sidelines and ridicule those doing the work, without contributing one iota to it. It's easy to criticise, Bet, but it is more difficult to do it - and do it right.

I don't see any evidence anywhere that you have done anything good for the breed at all. All you do is try to bring it down. Incidentally, you didn't answer my post, all you did s misquote me. Not good enough, try to bring a modicom of commonsense and worthwhile information to the discussion, will you?? The "latest news" is either the old news rehashed to suit your machievellian design, or more up to date news, skewed your way.

Yep, Delcara is correct, we have been around the SM mulberry bush so many times that many of us are giddy.

Bottom line is that no one has much idea why SM happens, no one has much idea how to prevent it, breeders are doing all they can to provide dogs for scanning so that the way forward may be clearer - at their expense. People like Bet Hargraves sit on the sidelines, contribute nothing, but snivel and complain.

Jaxxs Buddy

i think all dogs should be scanned but with careful breeding (not just 2 A's together) and scanning of progeny just maybe we would have enough data to figure out what is happening.

Realistically, consider the expense. Breeders in Sydney can take advantage of the scanner which the Cavalier breeders obtained so dogs in Aus could be scanned (Please note, Bet Hargraves, feel free to contribute some funds towards the purchase of the next one? They aren't cheap, and as you seem to have so much to say, I am sure you would like to help us out here. We'd all be grateful.).

However, for anyone not near Sydney, you can say min of $1500, max of $2000. Use $2000 as the figure - pretty well everyone charges about $1400, getting yourself and dog to Sydney, accommodation, blah blah. $2000. So $4000 to scan the parents. 4 pups, wait until they are 2.5 yrs, scan them, $8000. So you have coughed up $12000 just in scans. Looks good - except - if as LizT says, scans dont indicate anything. $12,000 is a lot of money to spend - and still not be able to guarantee that if you breed the parents, or the pups, they will not throw SM. You couldn't even guarantee that the pups would continue to be A past 2.5 years.

And you are currently paying to have all you dogs heart scanned annually by a specialist cardiologist. You have had the patellas of the parents checked, and x rayed if your vet wasn't 100% confident with his examination.

This is a minority disease in this country amongst registered cavaliers. Yes, it does crop up occasionally, but so does mega oesophagus, non hereditary heart murmurs, leukemia, and auto immune diseases which have no hereditary component. Now, Bet, you can scuttle whereever you wish, and tell everyone and anyone you like that I am against MRI-ing. Good luck to you.

As this was brought to the public domain, I think it is much better if "the public" and dog owners are given correct information.

jed i find this post of yours offensive and unnecessary.

That's OK Jaxx's Buddy. You are not the one who was misquoted and made to look like someone uncaring, when I was actually trying to explain the problem. I am sorry you are offended, but it is not your integrity which is in question and none of my last post was directed to you. Everyone skirts around everything because they don't want to be labelled as Bet Hargraves just labelled me. I don't care much, but I am am not allowing it to pass

Thanks BB - yep, we would have all them done if it cost $100 --- and probably none of us would object too much to the cost of scanning if there was a definitive answer coming from it. There is not. My cav dog, from lines where I can find no dog with SM, who has no syrinxes and has never thrown a pup with SM could do so in any future litter. It is something all breeders have to face

Thanks Delcara :D

As Delcara I am exiting this thread. It's a shame that attempts to help people understand are met with the sort of rubbish which went on here. If you want to learn, try the Cavalier websites as a beginning, and go from there. Don't think that you will learn from Bet Hargraves, you wont, but feel free pm Delcara if you like, or me.

Latest News On Syringomyelia In Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.

I have just spoken with Two Geneticists here in Britain to-day, and been told by both of them, that until the SM and MVD Genes are found ,the best way forward for the Cavalier Breed in the Fight against their SM and MVD Problems, is for Cavalier Breeders to follow the Breeding Guideline Recommendations ,Not to Breed from a Cavalier before 2.5 years of Age and to also know the Health Status of the Grand-Parents at 5.

Bet Hargreaves

[centitout]

Trying to understand syringo makes my brain hurt. I have read heaps of stuff, from Rusbridge, from Purdue, Irish Veterinary College, and now from Finland (spanks, Shortstep) and none of it particularly agrees with anything else.

I honestly feel that this should never have been put in the public arena. It's a difficult issue to understand, and people with no dog knowledge have no hope at all, unless they are neurologists. All putting the syringo issue in the public domain has done is made people fearful. Breeders who know about syringo will tell puppy buyers. Breeders who don't know or care wont tell buyers and never will. As they will not tell about MVD.

The website of every Cav club website, pretty well every ethical breeders' site (and many unethical ones) gives info on SM and MVD - so any buyer who didn't make a snap decision to buy a cav pup from the pet shop should have that information.

And a lot of what is in the public arena is untrue.

Nothing that has been done so far has reduced the incidence of SM as far as I can see.

People are blaming breeders for SM - because they don't understand the problem, which is incredibly complex. I often wonder whether the researchers understand it. They certainly don't agree with each other on it.

And despite REPUTABLE breeders only using heart clear dogs for the past umpteen years, I understand from Bet that the incidence of MVD has not reduced in 30 years. I wonder whether the dogs scanned are only properly bred pups from tested parents, or pups from every old second rate puppy farmer who never tests? I have no idea,

I haven't even seen the figures quoted, but have to wonder which dogs were giving these results.

Cavaliers are beloved of shonky breeders and puppy farms. Easy to keep, very easy to sell, small, don't need a lot of grooming, and don't protest if locked up in airline crates 24/7. and I do wonder whether the figures are skewed.

You know my best and favourite breed is the boxer? Boxers are not hugely popular in Aus, and although they are bred by byb quite a bit, it is more a litter here and a litter there. And quite a few byb get ironed out and go to registered dogs, or drop out of breeding.

And the breed is not favoured by puppy farms at all. Boxers have no particular issues - can have cancer (which I don't believe is hereditary), some may have skin issues, and cardiac myopathy can be an issue, but not a huge one. Most of the breeders are pretty switched on and do care. You rarely hear of an unhealthy boxer

In the Us, where there are many byb and puppy farms (many more than AKC registered breeders, as with many breeds here and ANKC breeders), and boxers are, I think No 6 in the popularity chart, they seem to suffer from CM and just about everything else 10 times more than boxers in Aust. And diseases I have never heard of a boxer having.

I have concluded from that with pf and lots of byb, comes problems which properly bred dogs do not have. Just an opinion, but based on experience and observation. Maybe the first and second generations away from pedigree are healthy - but then breeding continues to the 5 th and 6th generation by people who do not understand the breed, know very little about it, don't care about conformation or health, and just chuck 2 dogs together. Neither knowing or caring, except that they will produce a saleable product.

Until we differetiate pf and unreg from reg dogs, we are not going to get ahead on any diseases which do not have a readily obvious DNA marker. Until the public learns to differentiate between registered and not, registered breeders are on a hiding to hell.

I don't jump up and down about pf and DD - not my problem, and if that's what people want, so be it. The only issue I have with pf is the way the dogs are kept and i have huge issues with that.

I think people should consider the comparison I have made above - and the situation with both classes of dogs. And I think that should be factored into any health discussion. And this is not a criticism of Bet Hargraves, but a general observation, partricularly on Aust conditions.

LATEST NEWS ON SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIELS

If I could answer Jed's Post,where she mentioned that the Cavalier Buying Public should not have been made aware about the Two Serious Health Problems afflicting Our Cavaliers , I think that the Folk Buying Cavaliers should be being made aware about those Problems, then it will follow on that the Question is being asked of Cavalier Breeders ,are they Health Testing and following the Cavalier Breeding Recomendations on their Cavalier Breeding Stock, and if the Cavalier Breeders are not doing this, then any-one wanting a Cavalier should go to a Cavalier Breeder who is doing this.What else can be being done at the moment.?

Bet Hargreaves

HOW DARE YOU MISQUOTE ME? CAN'T YOU READ? IF YOU THINK THAT IS WHAT I SAID, I THINK YOU NEED GO BACK TO GRADE 2 - AND LEARN COMPREHENSION.

BUT YOU DID UNDERSTAND WHAT I WROTE. YOU ARE SIMPLY CAUSING TROUBLE AGAIN.

YOU CONSTANTLY VISIT FORUMS AND LIST, MISQUOTING INFORMATION UNTIL YOU ARE BANISHED AND THEN YOU CHOOSE ANOTHER ONE.

YOUR INTENTION IS TO HAVE THE GOVERNMENT BAN THE BREEDING OF CAVALIERS, AND I REALLY DO THINK YOU MAY ACHIEVE IT.

It's always been too easy to sit on the sidelines and ridicule those doing the work, without contributing one iota to it. It's easy to criticise, Bet, but it is more difficult to do it - and do it right.

I don't see any evidence anywhere that you have done anything good for the breed at all. All you do is try to bring it down. Incidentally, you didn't answer my post, all you did s misquote me. Not good enough, try to bring a modicom of commonsense and worthwhile information to the discussion, will you?? The "latest news" is either the old news rehashed to suit your machievellian design, or more up to date news, skewed your way.

Yep, Delcara is correct, we have been around the SM mulberry bush so many times that many of us are giddy.

Bottom line is that no one has much idea why SM happens, no one has much idea how to prevent it, breeders are doing all they can to provide dogs for scanning so that the way forward may be clearer - at their expense. People like Bet Hargraves sit on the sidelines, contribute nothing, but snivel and complain.

Jaxxs Buddy

i think all dogs should be scanned but with careful breeding (not just 2 A's together) and scanning of progeny just maybe we would have enough data to figure out what is happening.

Realistically, consider the expense. Breeders in Sydney can take advantage of the scanner which the Cavalier breeders obtained so dogs in Aus could be scanned (Please note, Bet Hargraves, feel free to contribute some funds towards the purchase of the next one? They aren't cheap, and as you seem to have so much to say, I am sure you would like to help us out here. We'd all be grateful.).

However, for anyone not near Sydney, you can say min of $1500, max of $2000. Use $2000 as the figure - pretty well everyone charges about $1400, getting yourself and dog to Sydney, accommodation, blah blah. $2000. So $4000 to scan the parents. 4 pups, wait until they are 2.5 yrs, scan them, $8000. So you have coughed up $12000 just in scans. Looks good - except - if as LizT says, scans dont indicate anything. $12,000 is a lot of money to spend - and still not be able to guarantee that if you breed the parents, or the pups, they will not throw SM. You couldn't even guarantee that the pups would continue to be A past 2.5 years.

And you are currently paying to have all you dogs heart scanned annually by a specialist cardiologist. You have had the patellas of the parents checked, and x rayed if your vet wasn't 100% confident with his examination.

This is a minority disease in this country amongst registered cavaliers. Yes, it does crop up occasionally, but so does mega oesophagus, non hereditary heart murmurs, leukemia, and auto immune diseases which have no hereditary component. Now, Bet, you can scuttle whereever you wish, and tell everyone and anyone you like that I am against MRI-ing. Good luck to you.

As this was brought to the public domain, I think it is much better if "the public" and dog owners are given correct information.

jed i find this post of yours offensive and unnecessary.

Jaxx'S Buddy-why would you find Jed's post offensive?

As you are not a breeder,she was merely trying to outline the costs so average people may understand the costs involved.

After knowing that,i can see the end of cavaliers is not far away-who on earth has that sort of money to scan repeatedly when it only gives you a guide?If it was a once off,fair enough,but to be expected to scan progeny as well-why would anyone bother breeding them.

Most people have no idea of the costs involved in breeding/health testing,even i was shocked at those costs.My breed is fairly easy-hips,elbows ,eyes and if i had continued breeding was going to get cardiac clearances as well,around $1000+ for all tests together.

[LizT]

Well said Jed. I would love to scan all mine would do it in a heart beat if it was $100.

But it is not so I instead breed carefully as we all do.

I would pay the $1500 in heartbeat if any of the Cavaliers I know were screaming in pain, they're not.