Latest News On Syringomyelia In Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.

[Dellcara]

I think Steve Dean's Article says all that I have been trying to get across to you Folk,that the Cavalier Breed is in a Mess Heath-Wise at the Moment, and it will only be, by Finding the Genes for SM and MVD can the Cavaliers have a Future.

Bet Hargreaves

and here you go yet AGAIN ..... picking up any comment you can and twisting it to your own agenda.

yes, you will be remembered (as you've stated that's what you want) ... but it will be for your disservice to the breed.

[*Bones*]

who is Steve Dean, and why would anyone give him credence?

The researchers will never find "genes" involved in Syringomyelia, or Mitral Valve Disease, as the "genes" for other heart problems in other breeds have never been discovered.

By beating owners and breeders with your broom, you are spreading fear instead of knowledge, amongst breeders.

Numbers of pups bred in Aus and NZ are very much down, because breeders are frightened yet these 2 places are where the answer is most likely to come, via the dogs imported here who have NEVER produced a pup with Syringomyelia in many generations, . That is where the answers will come from not poncing around, getting pedigrees wrong, attributing scans to the wrong dogs and generally arseing about.

Other breeds have other problems where the causitive factors of problems are not known, but some informed and serious reseaarch produced - not the cause of the problem - but a way to contiue breeding with minimum risk of the problem occurring.

Poor research, expense to breeders, lies and scaremongering by people who do not have the best interst of the breed at heart will lead to the extinction of this breed.

Puppy numbers falling from 11,000 to 8,000 in year should sound Volume 10 Warning Bells for all with a stake in the breed.

Another breed going the way of the Boykin Spaniel

Edited November 5, 2010 by *Bones*

[bet hargreaves]

I think Steve Dean's Article says all that I have been trying to get across to you Folk,that the Cavalier Breed is in a Mess Heath-Wise at the Moment, and it will only be, by Finding the Genes for SM and MVD can the Cavaliers have a Future.

Bet Hargreaves

and here you go yet AGAIN ..... picking up any comment you can and twisting it to your own agenda.

yes, you will be remembered (as you've stated that's what you want) ... but it will be for your disservice to the breed.

Latest News On SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIELS

Delicara

I have no Idea if you are are Cavalier Breeder ,I only know that I am trying to Alleviate the Suffering of so many Cavaliers and Hopefully because of what I am saying to the Cavalier Buying Public ,to only buy from a Cavalier Breeder who Health Tests their Cavalier Breeding Stock , then just maybe our Cavaliers will have the Chance of Healthier ,Longer Lives.

How on Earth is that giving a Disservice to the Breed I care so much about.

Maybe you think what you are doing is Best for our Cavalier Breed, but I for Sure Think what I am doing in trying to Help their Suffering is Right.

Surely Delicara , you can't Wish for Cavaliers to be suffering from those Two Diseases which are Afflicting them now.

What is your Remedy?

Bet Hargreaves

[RallyValley]

Latest News On SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIELS

Delicara

I have no Idea if you are are Cavalier Breeder ,I only know that I am trying to Alleviate the Suffering of so many Cavaliers and Hopefully because of what I am saying to the Cavalier Buying Public ,to only buy from a Cavalier Breeder who Health Tests their Cavalier Breeding Stock , then just maybe our Cavaliers will have the Chance of Healthier ,Longer Lives.

How on Earth is that giving a Disservice to the Breed I care so much about.

Maybe you think what you are doing is Best for our Cavalier Breed, but I for Sure Think what I am doing in trying to Help their Suffering is Right.

Surely Delicara , you can't Wish for Cavaliers to be suffering from those Two Diseases which are Afflicting them now.

What is your Remedy?

Bet Hargreaves

Latest News on WHAT'S NOT LATEST NEWS

Bet Hergreaves,

I am confused as to why all you posts that are mostly your opinions/inquisitions are apparently latest news on SM.

Please note I have nothing to do with Cavs but am a nosy person who is confused by your post formatting.

ValleyCBR

[Dellcara]

Surely Delicara , you can't Wish for Cavaliers to be suffering from those Two Diseases which are Afflicting them now.

Bet Hargreaves

Yes, here we go ... the usual last line that is used over and over again ...

NO-ONE wishes our breed to be suffering, are you suggesting there are people that do?

[Are You Serious Jo]

The problem is that PDE is being used by people to end pedigree dog breeding and when that show is supported by a dog person it gives them more ammunition. The fallout from PDE is bad enough already, why put the final nails in the coffin.

[Jed]

Bet Hargraves, if you want to do something for the breed, advise the breeders how to avoid syringmyelia and mitral valve disease instead of writing your opinions as "latest news".

No breeder wants to produce unhealthy dogs - despite what Harrison says - but there is NO way of knowing. You are flogging a very dead horse here.

[raz]

Yes, here we go ... the usual last line that is used over and over again ...

This thread has been really interesting but I have to ask - why on earth is someone who has been run off English Dog forums here on an Australian dog forum? Asking the obvious, I know.

[Steve]

Well said Shortstep, and absolutely correct.

Bet Hargraves

All I know is ,that last year the Cavalier Registrations issued by the Kennel Club here in Britain ,were 8,000,as against around 11,000 in previous years.

The government wont get to ban Cavaliers they will be extinct before that because no more are being bred.

Unless of course, non registered breeders and puppy farms make up the shortfall, as they are in Aust. No pedigrees, no tests, pushed off to the pet shop, no responsibility for anything by the breeder.

And sorry, a huge percentage of pet buyers expect all tests to have produced positive results and that the dog will not suffer from any health problem which the breeder may or may not have been able to avoid.

And they do not understand if there is no definitive test, there is no guarantee of good health - as with SM. Since I first began breeding I have given a guarantee against hereditary health problems. And I would happily do that with SM - but I would not want to be responsible for producing a dog which suffered.

LATEST NEWS ON SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIEL

By a Strange Co-incidence, in this Week's DOG WORLD printed here in Britain , there is a Veterinary Column written by Steve Dean, who is very Influential in the Dog World here,

" he says that we all should feel sorry for the Cavalier People who have TWO Horrible Dilemmas in their Breed ,a Significant Incidence of Heart Disease and Syringomyelia .

To have either Problem is Bad Enough ,but to Handle Both at Once is a Real Dilemma and will take Great Fortitude.

That the Choices for the Cavalier Breed are Few and Uninspiring.

That to help in the Uphill Struggle Ahead for our Cavalier Breed ,is for ,Vets , Geneticists ,Scientists and and Dog Breeders to work to-gether ,gather Good Data,and apply Good Science and Common Sense to those Problems and Probably Progress can be made."

I think Steve Dean's Article says all that I have been trying to get across to you Folk,that the Cavalier Breed is in a Mess Heath-Wise at the Moment, and it will only be, by Finding the Genes for SM and MVD can the Cavaliers have a Future.

Bet Hargreaves

Bet out of the above quote you got

I think Steve Dean's Article says all that I have been trying to get across to you Folk,that the Cavalier Breed is in a Mess Heath-Wise at the Moment, and it will only be, by Finding the Genes for SM and MVD can the Cavaliers have a Future.

But he didnt say that he said "the Uphill Struggle Ahead for our Cavalier Breed ,is for ,Vets , Geneticists ,Scientists and and Dog Breeders to work to-gether ,gather Good Data,and apply Good Science and Common Sense to those Problems and Probably Progress can be made."

I have no doubt that you have gone about what you are doing with nothing but good intentions but you have to try to grab a bit of commonsense too and understand the potential and probable negative consequences of the way you are doing it.

What you took from that article is one of doom for the breed and anyone with any power and little knowledge who are usually the ones who make laws and regulations knows that the chances of finding the genes based on what the deseases are may never happen let alone happen in the near future.Lets not forget that All mammals suffer with the same diseases including all breeds and mixed breeds and cross breeds.

What he did say wasnt a message of doom but one of hope and you could have just as easily taken his words to say that there is hope for the breed if we use the methods at our disposal and stay focused on getting it right.

If you want your message to be what you say it is - tell buyers to only buy from breeeders who test their breeding animals - Im all for that but when you say the only way the mess can be fixed is by finding the genes that is distorting the entire issue and doing nothing to help the breed.

[Dellcara]

This thread has been really interesting but I have to ask - why on earth is someone who has been run off English Dog forums here on an Australian dog forum? Asking the obvious, I know.

it's called "seeking an audience" .... anywhere and everywhere .....

[HollyMilo]

This thread has been really interesting but I have to ask - why on earth is someone who has been run off English Dog forums here on an Australian dog forum? Asking the obvious, I know.

it's called "seeking an audience" .... anywhere and everywhere .....

Part of that audience was Sunnyflower, a cavalier owner who had never heard of Syringomyelia before, but now, thanks to this thread, is aware of the disease, has realised that her dog has many of the symptoms and is having him scanned.

Sunnyflower, I really hope Oscar doesn't have SM.

[bet hargreaves]

This thread has been really interesting but I have to ask - why on earth is someone who has been run off English Dog forums here on an Australian dog forum? Asking the obvious, I know.

it's called "seeking an audience" .... anywhere and everywhere .....

Part of that audience was Sunnyflower, a cavalier owner who had never heard of Syringomyelia before, but now, thanks to this thread, is aware of the disease, has realised that her dog has many of the symptoms and is having him scanned.

Sunnyflower, I really hope Oscar doesn't have SM.

LATEST NEWS ON SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIELS.

If some Cavalier Folk have been made aware about this Insidious Disease by my comments , that is all that is what this is all about ,I do hope Sunnyflower that Oscar does'nt have SM.

I will never Defend my-self in what I am doing ,I believe it to be right , I was once told that ,Softly ,Softly Cachee Monkey, was the best way when I was fighting about the MVD Problem in our Cavaliers, but after seeing the Impact the PDE TV Program has had here in Britain ,the Kennel Club has done U Turns, there is now a Dog Breeding Advisory Council set up,it is only by the Shock Information and the Hard Hitting Facts of the PDE Program that made the Dog Buying Public aware about the SM and MVD Health Problems in the Cavalier Breed.

That there are many Cavalier Breeders who would prefer to to Cross their their Fingers and Hope , rather than spend Time and Money on the Health Tests available.

Would many Cavalier Breeders who are Breeding from Show Winning Stock ,really want to discover that their Young Champion should not be being used at Stud ?

As was said by the Previous CKCS CLUB CHAIRPERSON a few years ago.

"There are still Members who are still not Prepared to Health Check their Breeding Stock ,and of Those who do, it would Appear that many would not Hesitate to Breed from Affected Animals."

Finally ,on a Personal Note ,there was one Cavalier Forum I was removed from because I was Rocking the Boat with my Views,the other Cavalier Forum I Resigned from, because I did not like their Snide and Innuendoe Remarks about the Cavalier Researchers who are trying to give our Cavaliers a Future.

As for Steve Dean's Article, he also has made quite a U Turn about the mention of the Significant Incidence of Heart Disease and Syringomyelia in the Cavalier Breed. Before he had said those two Diseases were really not much of a Problem for our Cavaliers.

As WE SAY Here in Scotland .

WEEL, HE KENS NOO !!!!!

Bet Hargreaves

[shortstep]

but after seeing the Impact the PDE TV Program has had here in Britain ,the Kennel Club has done U Turns, there is now a Dog Breeding Advisory Council set up,it is only by the Shock Information and the Hard Hitting Facts of the PDE Program that made the Dog Buying Public

That there are many Cavalier Breeders who would prefer to to Cross their their Fingers and Hope , rather than spend Time and Money on the Health Tests available.

Would many Cavalier Breeders who are Breeding from Show Winning Stock ,really want to discover that their Young Champion should not be being used at Stud ?

Hard to imagine, but your opinions are not the latest news. But you know that, and you also know that anyone searching the web will find that title. You will do what ever it takes, use any place you you can find, to keep preaching Cav armageddon like a religious zealot.

I was just reading about what people like you are doing will have a fatal effect on the breeds they claim to love and want to protect. This is so true in your case as you do not even have a Cav in your life, you have already made that detachment from the breed and now want everyone on earth to do as you have done. You want to end the Cavs existence and it shows.

Do you know who Jeffrey Brag is? I hope so. To me he is one of the founders of the concept that we might need to change some things in how we breed purebred dogs or at least allow others some leeway to do so with in the definition of a purebred. Some may hate him, others admire him, but for sure he is not in agreement with your type of dramatics. All you do is feed the animal rights activist more fuel to call for the end of dogs. That behavior is well beneath any noble Scotsman.

Everyone should read this exchange about Pedigree Dog Exposed.

Skip the first few post, then it gets down to the real heart of the matter.

http://www.21st-century-dogs.com/21st-cent...hp?f=2&t=22

(Psssst....your hatred of dog breeders is showing. Makes your real problem visable, better hide that away again. )

Edited November 6, 2010 by shortstep

[*Bones*]

Harrison's biased television production hand built the coffin of the purebred dog. She avows the production will effect change. It will. It will effect the demise of dog breeding.

Bet Hargraves is making nails to fasten the coffin lid of the King Charles Cavalier Spaniel.

Animal welfare will place the dogs in the coffin.

The government will shovel the soil over the coffin lid.

Holly Milo, I don'r think Bet Hargraves even acknowledged Sunnyflower's dog's problem until a recent post. It was breeders who answered her question and advised her how to seek help.

[Steve]

This thread has been really interesting but I have to ask - why on earth is someone who has been run off English Dog forums here on an Australian dog forum? Asking the obvious, I know.

it's called "seeking an audience" .... anywhere and everywhere .....

Part of that audience was Sunnyflower, a cavalier owner who had never heard of Syringomyelia before, but now, thanks to this thread, is aware of the disease, has realised that her dog has many of the symptoms and is having him scanned.

Sunnyflower, I really hope Oscar doesn't have SM.

LATEST NEWS ON SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIELS.

If some Cavalier Folk have been made aware about this Insidious Disease by my comments , that is all that is what this is all about ,I do hope Sunnyflower that Oscar does'nt have SM.

I will never Defend my-self in what I am doing ,I believe it to be right , I was once told that ,Softly ,Softly Cachee Monkey, was the best way when I was fighting about the MVD Problem in our Cavaliers, but after seeing the Impact the PDE TV Program has had here in Britain ,the Kennel Club has done U Turns, there is now a Dog Breeding Advisory Council set up,it is only by the Shock Information and the Hard Hitting Facts of the PDE Program that made the Dog Buying Public aware about the SM and MVD Health Problems in the Cavalier Breed.

That there are many Cavalier Breeders who would prefer to to Cross their their Fingers and Hope , rather than spend Time and Money on the Health Tests available.

Would many Cavalier Breeders who are Breeding from Show Winning Stock ,really want to discover that their Young Champion should not be being used at Stud ?

As was said by the Previous CKCS CLUB CHAIRPERSON a few years ago.

"There are still Members who are still not Prepared to Health Check their Breeding Stock ,and of Those who do, it would Appear that many would not Hesitate to Breed from Affected Animals."

Finally ,on a Personal Note ,there was one Cavalier Forum I was removed from because I was Rocking the Boat with my Views,the other Cavalier Forum I Resigned from, because I did not like their Snide and Innuendoe Remarks about the Cavalier Researchers who are trying to give our Cavaliers a Future.

As for Steve Dean's Article, he also has made quite a U Turn about the mention of the Significant Incidence of Heart Disease and Syringomyelia in the Cavalier Breed. Before he had said those two Diseases were really not much of a Problem for our Cavaliers.

As WE SAY Here in Scotland .

WEEL, HE KENS NOO !!!!!

Bet Hargreaves

God save our dogs.

[Sheridan]

Bet you can tall us about yourself?

Do you breed Cav's or have you ever bred Cavs or any other breed?

Are you an expert on these problems in cavs or only making sure the word is spread in Australia?

If you feel you know something about this information on health you are passing on, why did you not address the questions I asked at the begining of this thread?

Here they are again

Bet, for those who not up on it,

What is "A" ?

What is the precentage of dogs tested in the general population that are "A". Another words of 100 dogs tested, how many would be A's?

So what they found was if you bred 2 'A' dogs together, that 1 out of 4 pups was affected?

Do they (who is they?) believe that one in 4 is an improved rate on a previose rate? What was that rate?

What is the current rate of affected dogs in litters that are from random parents (parents not tested and found to be 'A'), is it higher than one in four?

Any further sugestions on reducing it down from 1 in 4 affected rate?

It is always correct when sighting a study to add the link to the study so we can read it for ourselves.

Is it a rule that only breeders can have an interest in breed health matters? It's something that's often levelled at me, you see, and I don't understand why it's constantly brought up. I know rather a lot about health issues and the genetics of my breed and yet because I'm not a breeder, apparently I'm not allowed to comment. So what if Bet isn't a breeder?

Edited November 7, 2010 by Sheridan

[bet hargreaves]

Bet you can tall us about yourself?

Do you breed Cav's or have you ever bred Cavs or any other breed?

Are you an expert on these problems in cavs or only making sure the word is spread in Australia?

If you feel you know something about this information on health you are passing on, why did you not address the questions I asked at the begining of this thread?

Here they are again

Bet, for those who not up on it,

What is "A" ?

What is the precentage of dogs tested in the general population that are "A". Another words of 100 dogs tested, how many would be A's?

So what they found was if you bred 2 'A' dogs together, that 1 out of 4 pups was affected?

Do they (who is they?) believe that one in 4 is an improved rate on a previose rate? What was that rate?

What is the current rate of affected dogs in litters that are from random parents (parents not tested and found to be 'A'), is it higher than one in four?

Any further sugestions on reducing it down from 1 in 4 affected rate?

It is always correct when sighting a study to add the link to the study so we can read it for ourselves.

Is it a rule that only breeders can have an interest in breed health matters? It's something that's often levelled at me, you see, and I don't understand why it's constantly brought up. I know rather a lot about health issues and the genetics of my breed and yet because I'm not a breeder, apparently I'm not allowed to comment. So what if Bet isn't a breeder?

LATEST NEWS ON SYRINGOMYELIA IN CAVALIER KING CKARLES SPANIELS

Could I just mention ,that it is the Cavalier Pet Owners who have the most Cavaliers ,and do have such an Enormous Interest in having a Healthy ,Long Lived Cavalier.

When a Cavalier Breeder has a Cavalier Litter of Puppies , will not most of the Litter go to Cavalier Pet Owners's Homes.

We Have had our Cavaliers for over 30 years ,and were not Cavalier Breeders ,so as Sheridan says ,why should I not comment on the Health of the Breed I love.

Bet Hargreaves

[Jed]

Sheridan

Is it a rule that only breeders can have an interest in breed health matters? It's something that's often levelled at me, you see, and I don't understand why it's constantly brought up. I know rather a lot about health issues and the genetics of my breed and yet because I'm not a breeder, apparently I'm not allowed to comment. So what if Bet isn't a breeder?

Not when I looked last. However, people who go shock shreik horror are rather discouraged. As you have seen. Pet owners in ths thread have been encouraged to discover more about health in their breed, not chased away.

I have tried not to be rude to Bet Hargraves. However the problem with her is that she takes some news or other, and turns it into some black problem which is not fixable, and is never fixable. Having read her comments on various lists and forums world wide, my patience is wearing thin. I would welcome some useful input - but she has none, jusr doom and gloom.

There are problems in the Cavalier breed - as there are problems in your breed, in poodles, and in other breeds. The problems in Aus are not as great as Bet Hargraves intimates. And the "latest news" is very old news indeed.

As far as I can see, her desire is to have the breed pushed out of existence, because she happened to have one - from a reg breeder - which got sick.

People who buy these dogs should be aware that there are NO tests for syringo, and few tests for MVD, so if you buy one, you could expect to have problems, no matter what lines or kennels you buy from.

Buyers choice. Reputable breeders inform their buyers, and of course non reputable ones dont.,

I suppose really, it depends on whether you think pet owners with axes to grind - ie, Bet Hargraves and Carol Fowler should be allowed to dictate, through their ceaseless harping, the failure of the breed.

And it surely will fail. They are just making it happen faster

[bet hargreaves]

Sheridan

Is it a rule that only breeders can have an interest in breed health matters? It's something that's often levelled at me, you see, and I don't understand why it's constantly brought up. I know rather a lot about health issues and the genetics of my breed and yet because I'm not a breeder, apparently I'm not allowed to comment. So what if Bet isn't a breeder?

Not when I looked last. However, people who go shock shreik horror are rather discouraged. As you have seen. Pet owners in ths thread have been encouraged to discover more about health in their breed, not chased away.

I have tried not to be rude to Bet Hargraves. However the problem with her is that she takes some news or other, and turns it into some black problem which is not fixable, and is never fixable. Having read her comments on various lists and forums world wide, my patience is wearing thin. I would welcome some useful input - but she has none, jusr doom and gloom.

There are problems in the Cavalier breed - as there are problems in your breed, in poodles, and in other breeds. The problems in Aus are not as great as Bet Hargraves intimates. And the "latest news" is very old news indeed.

As far as I can see, her desire is to have the breed pushed out of existence, because she happened to have one - from a reg breeder - which got sick.

People who buy these dogs should be aware that there are NO tests for syringo, and few tests for MVD, so if you buy one, you could expect to have problems, no matter what lines or kennels you buy from.

Buyers choice. Reputable breeders inform their buyers, and of course non reputable ones dont.,

I suppose really, it depends on whether you think pet owners with axes to grind - ie, Bet Hargraves and Carol Fowler should be allowed to dictate, through their ceaseless harping, the failure of the breed.

And it surely will fail. They are just making it happen faster

Latest News On Syringomyelia In Cavalier King Charles Spaniels

Yes, when I started this Thread ,it was the Latest News from the Syringomyelia Seminar held here in Britain on 7-10-10.

I only want the Cavalier Pet Owning Public to have the Chance of having a Healthy ,Long Lived Life,since the Cavalier Pet Owners are in the Majority of Owning Cavaliers, and the best chance of this Happening ,is for the Cavalier Buying Public to be made aware about the SM and MVD Problems in Cavaliers , and be being told to only buy a Cavalier from a Cavalier Breeder who can show the Proof that they are Health Testing and following the Breeding Guideline Recommendations for their Cavalier Breeding Stock.

Surely ,it is a fact that when a Cavalier is MRI Scanned it will be known whether there is a Syrinx Present ,and this denotes, SM ,also when a Cavalier is Heart Tested it will be discovered the state of the Heart ,and should not be Bred From if there is a Heart Problem with their Heart.

The Breeding Guideline Recommendations for both those Two Diseases Afflicting Cavaliers ,from the UK CKCS CLUB and the Researchers here in Britain, are , not to Breed from a Cavalier before 2.5 years of age ,and to know the Health Status of the Grand-Parents at 5.

All I can quote ,is that there were 60 Cavaliers MRI Scanned in February at a Cavalier Seminar,in Australia, 50% had SM.This was carried out by Dr Childs , a Neurologist.

Bet Hargreaves

[Dellcara]

All I can quote ,is that there were 60 Cavaliers MRI Scanned in February at a Cavalier Seminar,in Australia....

Bet Hargreaves

Here you go again ... misusing information ... and you have been corrected on this one before butas usual you

choose to ignore it.

The 60 Cavaliers were NOT scanned in February. They were scanned over a period of time and the findings were

presented at a February meeting.

A small point I know but it's typical of you Bet ....