Latest News On Syringomyelia In Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.

[Sunnyflower]

Sunnyflower, don't forge to check up on the (maybe) cheaper MRI in Sydney.

I will ensure to send her copies of everything to her! She is failing to reply to my emails now that I asked where she got the dogs from. I want to inform the kennel she got her dogs from that she is breeding because clearly unlike stated and price paid he's not registered! My own fault, I should have got the papers but I felt it was of no importance and it still isn't of importance but I would like to inform whoever she got her 'Australian Champions' from that she is breeding them for a buck!

Not your fault at all. It was her responsibility to register ALL pups from the litter. The fact that he is not registered says a lot about her ethics though. Papers may seem unimportant to a pet owner, but it is still the responsibility of the breeder to register the pup.

Thank you Jed, your help is definitely helping me deal with this in a reasonable fashion. I was quite the upset mess last night at the prospect but now I know it's down to business. I am thankful for this thread otherwise we would be completely unaware.

You are right about the breeder though, it is her responsibility to register her pups! The silence and no reply from her yells a thousand words though..

[Jed]

My pleasure Sunnyflower It's a very nasty thing to have to face as an owner - imho, one of the worst. However, look on the bright side -- if he is coping ok now (although he probably does have some pain) he will cope a lot better on medication, and chances are that the SM will not worsen -- not 100% sure about that, but I think so. So, you can make him a lot happier since you read this thread.

And it is proven that raw food (BARF, basically) is very helpful for dogs with MVD. The diet helps the connective tissue in the heart, and the progress of the MVD is much slower. One of my bitches was Gr 1 @ 8. She is nearly 14 now, not medicated, and not much worse, maybe Gr2, but probably Gr1 still, and never had any medication, or any problems with the murmur. Always fed a raw diet. No proof the raw diet did the trick, but it can't hurt.

Good luck, let us know how he goes, we'all all be plugging for him. And you.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Jed

[tianakaesha]

OMG. it's like watching a video of Mika. She scratched CONSTANTLY for years. I checked with different vets and different clinics... food issues I was told.. changed her diet, not response to it... changed her flea treatments... grass allergies... flea allergies... tried to find so many reasons, but nothing would help. She had steriods for a bit and that seemed to work for a little bit.

She'd scratch and she'd suck her toes, and scratch, and chase flies that weren't there, and scratch and scratch...

She died of a suspected heart attack.. I had rehomed her by then due to circumstances... I don't know the exact details of her death, other than medication could not stop it. She was found convulsing I believe, and rushed to the vet and after numerous treatments the decision to PTS was made...

She had just turned 5 (or was that 6?) years old...

that video has spooked me...

[Jed]

Sorry to hear that, Ti. I thought she came from someone "good", but it's a while ago?

That's why you need a switched on vet -- although there is more recognition of it more recently.

The scratching might have been in response to an allergy or an itch. And I think (from memory, which is a bit shaky) there is another syndrome where they chase imaginary flies? Friend had one years ago, which chased bright lights. Too lazy to look it up, but it is a brain thing.

Don't fret ti, it could have been syringo, or maybe not. I guess heaps of dogs have been misdiagnosed one way or the other.

It's all so sad. Poor dogs.

[tianakaesha]

Jed, Mika was from a new breeder, their first litter.

I ended up going to big vet names around trying to get answers for what she went through.

I'm not fretting it, I just found the video so amazing to see as it was Mika all over.

Mika had other small issues (one eye that bulged more than the other, and appeared to get worse as she got older) but vets didn't seem worried about that..

but she was very sick the week I got her (pneumonia), and all the further issues were attributed to that.

I just find it all interesting....

[Moselle]

OMG. it's like watching a video of Mika. She scratched CONSTANTLY for years. I checked with different vets and different clinics... food issues I was told.. changed her diet, not response to it... changed her flea treatments... grass allergies... flea allergies... tried to find so many reasons, but nothing would help. She had steriods for a bit and that seemed to work for a little bit.

She'd scratch and she'd suck her toes, and scratch, and chase flies that weren't there, and scratch and scratch...

She died of a suspected heart attack.. I had rehomed her by then due to circumstances... I don't know the exact details of her death, other than medication could not stop it. She was found convulsing I believe, and rushed to the vet and after numerous treatments the decision to PTS was made...

She had just turned 5 (or was that 6?) years old...

that video has spooked me...

OMG that video is just so heartwrenching. That poor poor dog.....what an existance.

[Jed]

Sunnyflower - if you haven't watched this, it may give you more info

[Sunnyflower]

Sunnyflower - if you haven't watched this, it may give you more info

Jed - Thank you for that link, funnily enough that is the one I saw last night which is what made it all hit home.

I wrote down his symptoms today.

- Scratching

- Bunny hopping (on lead and just around the home)

- Yelping

- Paw licking

- Fly chasing (real ones and imaginary ones)

- Walks with a bend in his back end

- Rubs his face all the time on the rug

I could have just a little weirdo for a dog but after seeing footage of other Cavs with the disease I don't want to kid myself. I need to have him checked out to diagnose him as a weirdo or something else.

[bet hargreaves]

Sunnyflower - if you haven't watched this, it may give you more info

Jed - Thank you for that link, funnily enough that is the one I saw last night which is what made it all hit home.

I wrote down his symptoms today.

- Scratching

- Bunny hopping (on lead and just around the home)

- Yelping

- Paw licking

- Fly chasing (real ones and imaginary ones)

- Walks with a bend in his back end

- Rubs his face all the time on the rug

I could have just a little weirdo for a dog but after seeing footage of other Cavs with the disease I don't want to kid myself. I need to have him checked out to diagnose him as a weirdo or something else.

Latest News On Syringomyelia in Cavalier King Charles Spaniels

I wonder if I could add a wee bit to this Thread.

This is such a Horrible New Disease to have Appeared in our Cavalier Breed.

In the 1990's Dr C. Rusbridge ,a Neurologist here in Britain, had I think 4 Cavaliers who all had the same Neurological Symptoms.

The Alarm Bells started to ring for her. Then more Cavaliers were appearing with Similar Symptoms, she then realized that this was a Problem in the Cavalier Breed.

Much has been discovered about it ,but it is still so important to find the Genes involved causing SM in Cavaliers.

This work is going on along with Dr C Rusbridge ,in Canada.

At the Moment here in Britain ,with the help of RUPERT'S FUND started by the Cavalier Talk List ,Older Cavaliers ,6 years upwards are being MRI Scanned and Dr Rusbridge and the Genetic Team in Canada, are hoping this information will help in their Genetic Research

It is so important though at the Moment that Cavalier Breeding Stock be being MRI Scanned for this Insidious Condition.

Bet Hargreaves

[Jed]

Sunnyflower, try not to panic before the diagnosis. Please ensure that the vet DOES know about SM. Lots of vets say they do, but don't. Ask him some questions about SM and be happy with the answers before you take the dog to him. The breeder I gave you in NSW may know a vet too.

Good luck. And he should be able to live a pain free life with the help of medication.

[asal]

what is really concerning me is this 6 years before an accurate diagnosis?

there can be an awful lot of puppies born of later posative parents?

wonder if they are taking dna profiles to compare to mri's to see if there are any patterns to show any common matches anywhere?

Edited October 28, 2010 by asal

[Jed]

Even if the dog tests A on an MRI, doesn't mean he will not throw pups with syringo. So you pay around $1400 to have the dog scanned, and really, you aren't any wiser than you were.

I also think the researchers have somehow missed a big chunk of the pie - dogs with syrinxes go through life with never a problem. I don't know enough to know anything, but the whole thing bothers me a great deal. And I don't really know why.

Rumour has it that the % in this country is lower because of the dogs imported here (and into NZ). Maybe I haven't had problems because I used "A" dogs without knowing it. Maybe a lot of us are in that situation.

Trouble is - nobody knows.

[Dellcara]

Even if the dog tests A on an MRI, doesn't mean he will not throw pups with syringo. So you pay around $1400 to have the dog scanned, and really, you aren't any wiser than you were.

I also think the researchers have somehow missed a big chunk of the pie - dogs with syrinxes go through life with never a problem. I don't know enough to know anything, but the whole thing bothers me a great deal. And I don't really know why.

Rumour has it that the % in this country is lower because of the dogs imported here (and into NZ). Maybe I haven't had problems because I used "A" dogs without knowing it. Maybe a lot of us are in that situation.

Trouble is - nobody knows.

spot on Jed ... of course we see the media sensationalism of dogs in pain... BUT ... as you say - there are many that have a syrinx that do become symptomatic.

with regards to costs.... through the NSW CKCSC I think the cost is around $750, when I had one of my boys done a few years back it was $1000 and I also had to

fly to Sydney.

[Sunnyflower]

Even if the dog tests A on an MRI, doesn't mean he will not throw pups with syringo. So you pay around $1400 to have the dog scanned, and really, you aren't any wiser than you were.

I also think the researchers have somehow missed a big chunk of the pie - dogs with syrinxes go through life with never a problem. I don't know enough to know anything, but the whole thing bothers me a great deal. And I don't really know why.

Rumour has it that the % in this country is lower because of the dogs imported here (and into NZ). Maybe I haven't had problems because I used "A" dogs without knowing it. Maybe a lot of us are in that situation.

Trouble is - nobody knows.

spot on Jed ... of course we see the media sensationalism of dogs in pain... BUT ... as you say - there are many that have a syrinx that do become symptomatic.

with regards to costs.... through the NSW CKCSC I think the cost is around $750, when I had one of my boys done a few years back it was $1000 and I also had to

fly to Sydney.

I just called the Cavalier Club this morning and booked my boy in for their next MRI day. It is $770+GST. I have a quote for $1500 plus a $181.50 specialist fee else where.

[cavNrott]

I wonder if there's a vet in Melbourne who is clued up on SM. Though my dogs seem ok I noted in one of the videos that intervertebral disk disease can be an indication of SM. My 6 1/2yo Cav boy had a laminectomy for a ruptured disk last December. It was diagnosed as intervertebral disk disease. SM was not mentioned by the specilaist and it didn't occur to me to ask about the possibility. This dog walks and runs normally, he doesn't have a strange gait nor has he ever stopped trotting along to scratch. I've not seen him scratching near his neck at any time and he doesn't rub his face on anything.

He doesn't scratch much and when he does it's on the bottom jaw around the lip area. Because he has a yeast allergy the vet said the itch was probably due to the allergy and suggested antihistamines. The lip area looks a bit red and the antihistamines relieved the itch and redness. He doesn't scratch anywhere else.

One vet also picked up a grade 1 heart murmur in my boy. The other vets who examined him didn't seem to detect it, or they made no mention of it.

I'm not going to run around in a panic having an MRI done because he shows so few symptoms and my Cav girl has no symptoms but watching those videos scared the bejebus out of me and it would be good to know if there is a vet around these parts who is familiar with SM.

efs

Edited October 29, 2010 by cavNrott

[Sunnyflower]

I wonder if there's a vet in Melbourne who is clued up on SM. Though my dogs seem ok I noted in one of the videos that intervertebral disk disease can be an indication of SM. My 6 1/2yo Cav boy had a laminectomy for a ruptured disk last December. It was diagnosed as intervertebral disk disease. SM was not mentioned by the specilaist and it didn't occur to me to ask about the possibility. This dog walks and runs normally, he doesn't have a strange gait nor has he ever stopped trotting along to scratch. I've not seen him scratching near his neck at any time and he doesn't rub his face on anything.

He doesn't scratch much and when he does it's on the bottom jaw around the lip area. Because he has a yeast allergy the vet said the itch was probably due to the allergy and suggested antihistamines. The lip area looks a bit red and the antihistamines relieved the itch and redness. He doesn't scratch anywhere else.

One vet also picked up a grade 1 heart murmur in my boy. The other vets who examined him didn't seem to detect it, or they made no mention of it.

I'm not going to run around in a panic having an MRI done because he shows so few symptoms and my Cav girl has no symptoms but watching those videos scared the bejebus out of me and it would be good to know if there is a vet around these parts who is familiar with SM.

efs

I've only just learnt of this disease 2 days ago and already have my boy booked in for an MRI but he is showing a number of symptoms.

From what I have read it sounds like your boy is fine but google Neurology for pets or something along those lines and it will pop up. I had a heap of Melbourne clinic's show up. :p

[cavNrott]

I've only just learnt of this disease 2 days ago and already have my boy booked in for an MRI but he is showing a number of symptoms.

From what I have read it sounds like your boy is fine but google Neurology for pets or something along those lines and it will pop up. I had a heap of Melbourne clinic's show up.

I've known about SM since that Crufts doc was shown a couple of years ago and I've read what I was able to find about it but I didn't know intervertebral disk disease was a symptom. When my Cav had his laminectomy in December he had a myelogram to track his spine and spinal cord to find where the cord was compressed. He was paralysed from the shoulders down and they imaged the entire spine. If there was evidence of a syrinx surely the specialist would have have told me. I can't remember if the base of the skull was shown on the imaging, I think it was.

They manipulated his neck when they did the initial examination. At the time I though if he didn't have a painful neck then, he would have by the time they finished pushing and pulling his head around. I didn't know a dog's neck was so flexible.

They have an MRI machine at the Specialist Referral Centre where I take my dogs. I've been there so often in the last 3 years we're on a first name basis. I think they probably know all about SM, at least I hope so. I'll make enquiries.

I hope your boy is ok Sunnyflower and wish you well. Please keep us updated.

[Jed]

CavnRott, this is the boy? He is "middle aged", I think. Trouble is, once you begin reading about SM, ALL your dogs have symptoms. My boxer scratches her neck, hops on 3 legs to scratch when walking, and rubs her face on the ground. Syringo? Doubt it.

I believe that 99.9% of cavaliers face scratch, rub saliva on your antique couches and ski on your persian carpets just because they like to, not because they have SM

I don't think he has enough symptoms.

spinal cord to find where the cord was compressed. He was paralysed from the shoulders down and they imaged the entire spine. If there was evidence of a syrinx surely the specialist would have have told me. I can't remember if the base of the skull was shown on the imaging, I think it was.

I think they would have. If a specialist was reading the scans, I would expect him to know. Although it surprises me which vets know SFA, and which vets know quite a bit.

Biggest problem is vets who think they know mis diagnosing positive. UK breeders warned of this when 3 month old pups were pts by vets diagnosing SM - which could not be, too early for symptoms to show - so perfectly health pups were put down for no good reason.

If I had a pet, I would want him to tick all the boxes before I scanned him - primarily because of the cost, even through the scheme. It is cheaper in UK - and of course, the distances to travel are shorter

[Liath]

I watched the videos. My cav is constantly scratching at her face or neck. rubbing her face on the lounge or doorway. She is currently sitting on the floor sucking her front paws which she does alot. I have had her to vet a couple of times and have been told its allergies. Last time was a couple of weeks ago and was told she had a yeast infection. The vet placed her on her back and sniffed her belly, he said she smells and he changed her conditioner. She has done all 3 since I can remember, the paw sucking is most ennoying cause she gets very loud. She has sucked on her back paws so much she removed all the fur. Her head is not tilted to one side and she has never yelped in pain after doing the neck scratching.

I do not think she has this horrid desease but I can see how people can put 2 and 2 together and get SM.

One of the videos I watched on youtube was about SM in UK and Carol Fowler. Shame on that blonde breeder in the video who lives in UK for knowlingly breeding her boy who has SM, he sired 26 litters after he was diagnosed!!! Maybe they should be showing a certificate to show that the parents are free of SM. I know that wont stop it but it would help.

[cavNrott]

CavnRott, this is the boy? He is "middle aged", I think. Trouble is, once you begin reading about SM, ALL your dogs have symptoms. My boxer scratches her neck, hops on 3 legs to scratch when walking, and rubs her face on the ground. Syringo? Doubt it.

I believe that 99.9% of cavaliers face scratch, rub saliva on your antique couches and ski on your persian carpets just because they like to, not because they have SM

I don't think he has enough symptoms.

Yep Jed, he's 6 1/2yo now so definitely middle aged. I agree he doesn't have enough (if any) symptoms of SM. Many dogs, irrespective of breed are unfortunate enough to rupture a disk in their spine without SM being the cause. I was lucky we got him into surgery right away so full function was restored.

His scans were read by a specialist and surgery performed by a specialist. The imaging was clear and easy to read. I clearly understood what was going on when I saw the imaging and all was explained to me in detail. No mention was made of SM but I guess that's what all that initial neck manipulation was about.

I got antsy about intervertebral disk disease when I saw that video a couple of days ago. Bit of an overreaction on my part.

I haven't seen either of my Cavs rub their faces on furniture. If they ski, which doesn't happen often, they make sure there are visitors here to witness their delightful display.

I wouldn't MRI the Cavs unless there were obvious symptoms but I will find out if the specialsts there are up to date with current SM research and surgical procedures.