Latest News On Syringomyelia In Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.

[asal]

Hey i found this link

https://secure.vlsstore.com/Media/Publicati...V_26_11_886.pdf

good grief n look at the list of breeds its been found in? people too

Yes, but the Article by the Researchers also said that

Almost all the Affected Dogs have been Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.

Bet Hargreaves

what you refer to quotes one study only at the beginning of the paper, using cavalier king charles figures only, read the entire thing and there is also this on page 891 to 892.

"The mean age of dogs in our caudal occipital malformation

syndrome group was 6.26 years of age (range: 4.5

months to 13 years of age). There were 17 males (two

intact) and 13 females (two intact). All were small-breed

dogs, with Yorkshire terriers (seven) and miniature or toy

poodles (six) being the most common. Other breeds

included bichon frise (two), pug (two), Chihuahua (two),

West Highland white terrier (two), cavalier King Charles

spaniel (two), shih tzu (two), Maltese (one), miniaturepinscher (one), Pomeranian (one), Pekingese (one), and

French bulldog (one). One of the cavalier King Charles

spaniels was known to have been acquired from Ireland.

As with human Chiari type 1 malformation, there was a

wide variety of neurologic presentations in the dogs

(Table 2)."

that finding by no mind streatch can u come up with "Almost all the Affected Dogs have been Cavalier King Charles Spaniels. " from that second study group surely? and surely cause for concern

if you want to stick to cavalier king charles bashing then perhaps you need to stop reports being presented that dont give only the information you belive should be available for public consumption?

[Jed]

This is research by Rodney S. Bagley DVM DipACVIM (Neurology and Internal Medicine)

Department of Clinical Sciences, Washington State University, College of Veterinary Medicine, Pullman,

WA, 99164-6610, USA.

These are some of the findings of the research

A citation search with the key word ‘syringomyelia’ in

both humans and animals yields over 2,000 citations since

the 1960s, suggesting that this is not a new disease process.

The prevalence, however, was thought to be low until very

recently. With the use of better spinal imaging modalities for

diagnosis of spinal disease, these cystic spinal cord diseases

are now identified as being surprisingly common

Syringomyelia tends to be found more often in the smaller

breed dogs such as Pomeranians, Chihuahuas, Maltese

terriers and Poodles. Cavalier King Charles Spaniels are

also commonly affected with this disease, and even Cavalier

King Charles Spaniels without clinical signs may have this

condition to some degree. Importantly, syringomyelia may

be present as a component of, or independent of, other

spinal cord diseases such as atlantoaxial subluxation and

intervertebral disk disease.Therefore, it is important to have

a high index of suspicion for this disease, even when other

spinal diseases that are more obviously apparent are present.

Clouding the issue further, some syrinxes

have spontaneously regressed, resulting in some authors

questioning the role of surgery as treatment for this problem

Congential and acquired defects of the foramen magnum are in a group

of diseases that have been described in humans

http://www.irishveterinaryjournal.com/Link...CESA_Jan_07.pdf

If 50% of Cavaliers are scanning positive, they should not be bred from. If the 50% which have scanned clear are the only ones used for breeding, it is extremely likely that MVD and other problems will become more prevalent.

This is the recommendation from Claire Rusbridge

Colour code: red = under 2.5 years blue = over 2.5 years, purple = any age

CODE AGE (yrs) Syringomyelia Breed to:

A Over 2.5 Absent or less than 2mm central canal dilatation in the C2-C4 region only. A, C, D

C Under 2.5 Absent A

Rescan after 2.5 years.

D Over 2.5 Present but asymptomatic. A

E Under 2.5 Present but asymptomatic. SHOULD NOT BE BRED FROM

F Any Present and symptomatic SHOULD NOT BE BRED FROM

These guidelines are the current recommendations of neurologists and may be amended and re-issued as further research information becomes available.

[asal]

I was wondering, would one way to help bring costs down could the mri table be set up so more than one dog could be scanned at each run?

I have never seen a dog done but i know when i was in an accident and a mri done. i was put on a table and it rolled through the machine considering the size of the table, u could do an awful lot of dogs in one run if they were all asleep?

[asal]

being the nosey type i googled to see what places have mri scanners n came up with this page

http://www.vetinfo.com/dmri.html

it says click here and u can ask a vet. just rechecked the ask a question page that comes up if u click, theres nothing to warn u if u do its a 22 charge.

dont do it. well unless u want to spend $22 dollars. and once u click on the ask a question after typing in the question your locked into the page to pay.

i cant X it.

every time i try to go back or delete the page a box comes up with

"Are you sure you want to navigate away from this page?

WAIT! Dog Veterinary Experts are online and are waiting to answer your question!

Please let us know what you are willing to pay the Expert IF you are satisfied with the answer.

Remember, satisfaction is fully guaranteed and your money remains in your account until you decide that the answer works for you!

Thank you

JustAnswer

Press OK to continue, or Cancel to stay on the current page."

u either pay up or your stuck "on the current page."

sheesh. i could ring em n ask that without having to pay 22 for the answer? well now i have their phone number.

I asked how much is an mri, and im stuck with the page on my computer now, it wont close.

Edited October 25, 2010 by asal

[Moselle]

I cannot believe that breeders KNOWINGLY breed and show their syringomyelia-affected dog and are so bare faced about it all and STILL allowed to continue to breed, so much for these dog associations sprouting that breeding should be done to better the breed, pfffft !!!!! I was disgusted after listening to the following video, that a breeder with a cavalier affected by syringomyelia went on to show him KNOWING that he had this problem and is callous enough to continue breeding him.....how on earth did he go to win a show ??????? I am absolutely appalled, to say the least !!!!

[WreckitWhippet]

Turn the volume down on that youtube video and what you see in that ring are typically active and tail wagging Cav's ( I'll make no judgement on the finer points of movement and conformation ). There was nothing in that movie to indicate to me that those dogs should not have been shown. You can show any dog you like, being affected or a carrier of a disease does not exclude you from a show ring, unless the dog is in a state of ill health where the symptoms prevent it from being exhibited.

There is a big jump from showing a dog, to breeding a dog. If you knowingly breed a dog with problems, then that's a whole other ball game, from simply exhibiting it.

A judge is judging the dog as it's presented to him or her on the day and that's it

[Moselle]

Turn the volume down on that youtube video and what you see in that ring are typically active and tail wagging Cav's ( I'll make no judgement on the finer points of movement and conformation ). There was nothing in that movie to indicate to me that those dogs should not have been shown. You can show any dog you like, being affected or a carrier of a disease does not exclude you from a show ring, unless the dog is in a state of ill health where the symptoms prevent it from being exhibited.

There is a big jump from showing a dog, to breeding a dog. If you knowingly breed a dog with problems, then that's a whole other ball game, from simply exhibiting it.

A judge is judging the dog as it's presented to him or her on the day and that's it

It's a fine line between showing a dog and breeding from it....and inevitably greed sets in and dogs that go on to win multiple shows end up being bred. I think that the volume on this video needs to be turned on given the claims that are made.....me thinks that if there was no truth to such claims the blonde lady would be suing for slander !!!! If you are of the belief that dogs with potential health problems should be shown then perhaps it is time for dog associations to allow DESEXED dogs to be shown and, as you know, this is forbidden besides which.....most people that opt to show their dog are breeders, not too many "pet owners" making a point of showing their beloved pet! The reason most breeders show is in the hope of winning coveted ribbons (and in some cases - deservedly) for its prestige and the reputation of being regarded as breeders of "QUALITY" puppies.

Edited October 26, 2010 by Moselle

[Sunnyflower]

My boy was 2 in July and I will saddly raise my hand in the air and say that his breeder has done no benefit to the breed and my poor boy is a very poorly built Cav.

He has a heart murmur already and a respiratory problem.

I am wondering if he has this! I have just read the sypmtoms and Oscar is ALWAYS scratching around his neck and shoulder area but he has no fleas, when I walk him he does this funny little dance because he HAS to scratch around his shoulders, I always thought it was because of the harness and over the past 12 months I have noticed if he gets picked up he yelps. There is no damage or pain to that area if you feel it he just yelps for what we thought was no apparent reason despite the vet feeling him over. Do you think he could possibly have this disease?

[WreckitWhippet]

Turn the volume down on that youtube video and what you see in that ring are typically active and tail wagging Cav's ( I'll make no judgement on the finer points of movement and conformation ). There was nothing in that movie to indicate to me that those dogs should not have been shown. You can show any dog you like, being affected or a carrier of a disease does not exclude you from a show ring, unless the dog is in a state of ill health where the symptoms prevent it from being exhibited.

There is a big jump from showing a dog, to breeding a dog. If you knowingly breed a dog with problems, then that's a whole other ball game, from simply exhibiting it.

A judge is judging the dog as it's presented to him or her on the day and that's it

It's a fine line between showing a dog and breeding from it....and inevitably greed sets in and dogs that go on to win multiple shows end up being bred. I think that the volume on this video needs to be turned on given the claims that are made.....me thinks that if there was no truth to such claims the blonde lady would be suing for slander !!!! If you are of the belief that dogs with potential health problems should be shown then perhaps it is time for dog associations to allow DESEXED dogs to be shown and, as you know, this is forbidden besides which.....most people that opt to show their dog are breeders, not too many "pet owners" making a point of showing their beloved pet! The reason most breeders show is in the hope of winning coveted ribbons (and in some cases - deservedly) for its prestige and the reputation of being regarded as breeders of "QUALITY" puppies.

Moselle, you are really out of touch or have nothing to do with the exhibition of dogs , as neuters can be shown, as of this year they can now start earning points towards their neuter titles.

Plenty of dogs and bitches are exhibited, some with BIS wins and they may never be bred from, for whatever reason. Just because you show it, doesn't mean you should or have to breed from it.

Recognition as a breeder of "quality" puppies, can come partly from what is seen in the ring, but the true test is the majority that go as pets.

I give little or no cred to PDE and it's wise to take it with a grain of salt .

[sandgrubber]

I can't tell you how to get rid of the offending page. But Google on veterinary MRI cost came up with a range of prices from $600 to $1400 . . . all at US vet surgeries. Oops. Found another at $3675. Just guessing, but I'd say most of the results we're seeing are from research laboratories who are doing the procedure for no cost in order to get a good sample. May be awhile before the price comes down enough and the availability increases to the point where screening gets done by any but the elite breeders or people with very sick and much beloved pets.

being the nosey type i googled to see what places have mri scanners n came up with this page

http://www.vetinfo.com/dmri.html

it says click here and u can ask a vet. just rechecked the ask a question page that comes up if u click, theres nothing to warn u if u do its a 22 charge.

dont do it. well unless u want to spend $22 dollars. and once u click on the ask a question after typing in the question your locked into the page to pay.

i cant X it.

every time i try to go back or delete the page a box comes up with

"Are you sure you want to navigate away from this page?

WAIT! Dog Veterinary Experts are online and are waiting to answer your question!

Please let us know what you are willing to pay the Expert IF you are satisfied with the answer.

Remember, satisfaction is fully guaranteed and your money remains in your account until you decide that the answer works for you!

Thank you

JustAnswer

Press OK to continue, or Cancel to stay on the current page."

u either pay up or your stuck "on the current page."

sheesh. i could ring em n ask that without having to pay 22 for the answer? well now i have their phone number.

I asked how much is an mri, and im stuck with the page on my computer now, it wont close.

[Sunnyflower]

The more I read of the symptoms to more I realise my boy is ticking almost every single box.

Now that I know he is ticking just about 100% of the symptoms boxes whats next? Off to the vet and what tests will they run? Is there a preventative measure in terms of prolonging or pain relief for when it gets to that stage?

[Sheridan]

frankly i think its a load of bull#*+#

my first bitch had 7 in her first litter and 8 in her second. they are 12 and 11 now n not a sm in the lot thats 15 pups if you cant add.

n they would have shown by now.

counting my own and those belonging to friends probably think ive known nearly 100 cavs over the past decades n never seen it in save one who certantly began to show the symptoms at age 6.

n luckily desexed n never bred from, it came from a kennel thats ho so ethical n never sells any on main register so anyone who has one descended from their progeny would have not had their LR pup desexed as per contact anyway.

as well seen many others same kennel same breeding and no sign of it as they aged n many have made it to 13 n 16 years old. so i find it hard to believe the figures stated at all. should i add, that affected dog came from a litter of 8 and never heard of any siblings developing any problems?

Ah, the 'I've never had it' excuse. You know, I was told that no wheaten terrier in Australia had ever been diagnosed with the protein wasting disease they can get. And this was right - until one was diagnosed. Just because you've never had it, doesn't mean you won't ever have a case in the future. Just because you don't know anyone whose had a case, doesn't mean you won't in the future. Only the blind dismiss the research.

[Moselle]

Turn the volume down on that youtube video and what you see in that ring are typically active and tail wagging Cav's ( I'll make no judgement on the finer points of movement and conformation ). There was nothing in that movie to indicate to me that those dogs should not have been shown. You can show any dog you like, being affected or a carrier of a disease does not exclude you from a show ring, unless the dog is in a state of ill health where the symptoms prevent it from being exhibited.

There is a big jump from showing a dog, to breeding a dog. If you knowingly breed a dog with problems, then that's a whole other ball game, from simply exhibiting it.

A judge is judging the dog as it's presented to him or her on the day and that's it

It's a fine line between showing a dog and breeding from it....and inevitably greed sets in and dogs that go on to win multiple shows end up being bred. I think that the volume on this video needs to be turned on given the claims that are made.....me thinks that if there was no truth to such claims the blonde lady would be suing for slander !!!! If you are of the belief that dogs with potential health problems should be shown then perhaps it is time for dog associations to allow DESEXED dogs to be shown and, as you know, this is forbidden besides which.....most people that opt to show their dog are breeders, not too many "pet owners" making a point of showing their beloved pet! The reason most breeders show is in the hope of winning coveted ribbons (and in some cases - deservedly) for its prestige and the reputation of being regarded as breeders of "QUALITY" puppies.

Moselle, you are really out of touch or have nothing to do with the exhibition of dogs , as neuters can be shown, as of this year they can now start earning points towards their neuter titles.

Plenty of dogs and bitches are exhibited, some with BIS wins and they may never be bred from, for whatever reason. Just because you show it, doesn't mean you should or have to breed from it.

Recognition as a breeder of "quality" puppies, can come partly from what is seen in the ring, but the true test is the majority that go as pets.

I give little or no cred to PDE and it's wise to take it with a grain of salt .

I was a reg. breeder not all that long ago and desexed dogs were not shown then, I just assumed that this still applied but as you said....the showing of neutered dogs started this year....by "neutered"....does that apply to male dogs or are speyed females allowed to be shown also? At the time when I was breeding I had contact with quite a fair few reg. breeders of a few different breed of dogs and I never encountered a single one that was showing without breeding.....if times have changed since then.....all the better but I would think that those that show and don't breed would be few and far between.

[WreckitWhippet]

Turn the volume down on that youtube video and what you see in that ring are typically active and tail wagging Cav's ( I'll make no judgement on the finer points of movement and conformation ). There was nothing in that movie to indicate to me that those dogs should not have been shown. You can show any dog you like, being affected or a carrier of a disease does not exclude you from a show ring, unless the dog is in a state of ill health where the symptoms prevent it from being exhibited.

There is a big jump from showing a dog, to breeding a dog. If you knowingly breed a dog with problems, then that's a whole other ball game, from simply exhibiting it.

A judge is judging the dog as it's presented to him or her on the day and that's it

It's a fine line between showing a dog and breeding from it....and inevitably greed sets in and dogs that go on to win multiple shows end up being bred. I think that the volume on this video needs to be turned on given the claims that are made.....me thinks that if there was no truth to such claims the blonde lady would be suing for slander !!!! If you are of the belief that dogs with potential health problems should be shown then perhaps it is time for dog associations to allow DESEXED dogs to be shown and, as you know, this is forbidden besides which.....most people that opt to show their dog are breeders, not too many "pet owners" making a point of showing their beloved pet! The reason most breeders show is in the hope of winning coveted ribbons (and in some cases - deservedly) for its prestige and the reputation of being regarded as breeders of "QUALITY" puppies.

Moselle, you are really out of touch or have nothing to do with the exhibition of dogs , as neuters can be shown, as of this year they can now start earning points towards their neuter titles.

Plenty of dogs and bitches are exhibited, some with BIS wins and they may never be bred from, for whatever reason. Just because you show it, doesn't mean you should or have to breed from it.

Recognition as a breeder of "quality" puppies, can come partly from what is seen in the ring, but the true test is the majority that go as pets.

I give little or no cred to PDE and it's wise to take it with a grain of salt .

I was a reg. breeder not all that long ago and desexed dogs were not shown then, I just assumed that this still applied but as you said....the showing of neutered dogs started this year....by "neutered"....does that apply to male dogs or are speyed females allowed to be shown also? At the time when I was breeding I had contact with quite a fair few reg. breeders of a few different breed of dogs and I never encountered a single one that was showing without breeding.....if times have changed since then.....all the better but I would think that those that show and don't breed would be few and far between.

Desexed is the same as "neutered" when it comes to exhibition and it's by no means a new thing. The ability to earn points towards a neuter title is but not the neuter classes themselves.

You need to get out a bit more, many people start exhibiting before they consider breeding.

Going back to that youtube clip, turn the sound down and those Cavs look just like any other Cav's you see being exhibited and unless the handler pulled the MRI results out of their back pocket and showed the judge, the judge would be none the wiser. The issue is not the exhibition of an animal, but the one's breeding choices and ethics.

[Rayvale]

I was a reg. breeder not all that long ago and desexed dogs were not shown then, I just assumed that this still applied but as you said....the showing of neutered dogs started this year....by "neutered"....does that apply to male dogs or are speyed females allowed to be shown also? At the time when I was breeding I had contact with quite a fair few reg. breeders of a few different breed of dogs and I never encountered a single one that was showing without breeding.....if times have changed since then.....all the better but I would think that those that show and don't breed would be few and far between.

In my breed there are quite a lot of people who have absolutely NO intention of breeding - they just love to show! One particular exhibitor is just about to start entering her newly neutered boy over the next couple of weeks. I am guessing that there are just as many show folk who just exhibit (and dont breed) as there are people who just breed (and dont show)!

[asal]

frankly i think its a load of bull#*+#

my first bitch had 7 in her first litter and 8 in her second. they are 12 and 11 now n not a sm in the lot thats 15 pups if you cant add.

n they would have shown by now.

counting my own and those belonging to friends probably think ive known nearly 100 cavs over the past decades n never seen it in save one who certantly began to show the symptoms at age 6.

n luckily desexed n never bred from, it came from a kennel thats ho so ethical n never sells any on main register so anyone who has one descended from their progeny would have not had their LR pup desexed as per contact anyway.

as well seen many others same kennel same breeding and no sign of it as they aged n many have made it to 13 n 16 years old. so i find it hard to believe the figures stated at all. should i add, that affected dog came from a litter of 8 and never heard of any siblings developing any problems?

Ah, the 'I've never had it' excuse. You know, I was told that no wheaten terrier in Australia had ever been diagnosed with the protein wasting disease they can get. And this was right - until one was diagnosed. Just because you've never had it, doesn't mean you won't ever have a case in the future. Just because you don't know anyone whose had a case, doesn't mean you won't in the future. Only the blind dismiss the research.

i didnt mean the literal as you seem to think i did.

according to the poster i was commenting on the charge was that all the breed have it.

even more disturbing was the literature i discovered naming so many other breeds as well not mentioned anywhere previously, well not that i noticed. very worrying i would think

[Moselle]

I was a reg. breeder not all that long ago and desexed dogs were not shown then, I just assumed that this still applied but as you said....the showing of neutered dogs started this year....by "neutered"....does that apply to male dogs or are speyed females allowed to be shown also? At the time when I was breeding I had contact with quite a fair few reg. breeders of a few different breed of dogs and I never encountered a single one that was showing without breeding.....if times have changed since then.....all the better but I would think that those that show and don't breed would be few and far between.

In my breed there are quite a lot of people who have absolutely NO intention of breeding - they just love to show! One particular exhibitor is just about to start entering her newly neutered boy over the next couple of weeks. I am guessing that there are just as many show folk who just exhibit (and dont breed) as there are people who just breed (and dont show)!

As I said.....at the time when I was breeding, exhibiting without breeding was scarce.....times may have changed recently and if so I am all for it.

[D & D]

It's a fine line between showing a dog and breeding from it....and inevitably greed sets in and dogs that go on to win multiple shows end up being bred. I think that the volume on this video needs to be turned on given the claims that are made.....me thinks that if there was no truth to such claims the blonde lady would be suing for slander !!!! If you are of the belief that dogs with potential health problems should be shown then perhaps it is time for dog associations to allow DESEXED dogs to be shown and, as you know, this is forbidden besides which.....most people that opt to show their dog are breeders, not too many "pet owners" making a point of showing their beloved pet! The reason most breeders show is in the hope of winning coveted ribbons (and in some cases - deservedly) for its prestige and the reputation of being regarded as breeders of "QUALITY" puppies.

Er, I'm one of those people who show my dogs without breeding them. We do exist.

I titled my girl and had her desexed about a month later. She is now back in the show ring and has her first challenge certificate toward her neuter title.

As I said.....at the time when I was breeding, exhibiting without breeding was scarce.....times may have changed recently and if so I am all for it.

Times have changed!

I'm still new to showing (2 years), but there has always been a neuter class at Darwin shows (since I started). My dogs are in Group 7 and our biggest class is now neuter.

[Jed]

being the nosey type i googled to see what places have mri scanners n came up with this page

http://www.vetinfo.com/dmri.html

it says click here and u can ask a vet. just rechecked the ask a question page that comes up if u click, theres nothing to warn u if u do its a 22 charge.

dont do it. well unless u want to spend $22 dollars. and once u click on the ask a question after typing in the question your locked into the page to pay.

i cant X it.

every time i try to go back or delete the page a box comes up with

"Are you sure you want to navigate away from this page?

WAIT! Dog Veterinary Experts are online and are waiting to answer your question!

Please let us know what you are willing to pay the Expert IF you are satisfied with the answer.

Remember, satisfaction is fully guaranteed and your money remains in your account until you decide that the answer works for you!

Thank you

JustAnswer

Press OK to continue, or Cancel to stay on the current page."

u either pay up or your stuck "on the current page."

sheesh. i could ring em n ask that without having to pay 22 for the answer? well now i have their phone number.

I asked how much is an mri, and im stuck with the page on my computer now, it wont close.

There are a few sites like that - try control/alt/delete to close your computer. Don't know any other way to get rid of it. :D

[asal]

being the nosey type i googled to see what places have mri scanners n came up with this page

http://www.vetinfo.com/dmri.html

it says click here and u can ask a vet. just rechecked the ask a question page that comes up if u click, theres nothing to warn u if u do its a 22 charge.

dont do it. well unless u want to spend $22 dollars. and once u click on the ask a question after typing in the question your locked into the page to pay.

i cant X it.

every time i try to go back or delete the page a box comes up with

"Are you sure you want to navigate away from this page?

WAIT! Dog Veterinary Experts are online and are waiting to answer your question!

Please let us know what you are willing to pay the Expert IF you are satisfied with the answer.

Remember, satisfaction is fully guaranteed and your money remains in your account until you decide that the answer works for you!

Thank you

JustAnswer

Press OK to continue, or Cancel to stay on the current page."

u either pay up or your stuck "on the current page."

sheesh. i could ring em n ask that without having to pay 22 for the answer? well now i have their phone number.

I asked how much is an mri, and im stuck with the page on my computer now, it wont close.

There are a few sites like that - try control/alt/delete to close your computer. Don't know any other way to get rid of it. :D

interesting, yes had to shut down the computer to get rid of it.