Baltimore Police Dog Training Video

[luvsablue]

Sick methods, hopefully outdated now.

It looked to me as though they were trying to teach the dog "respect" as in a prison, or

concentration camp.

The dog was getting worse the more they did it, and didn't know what they wanted.

A stupid way to train any type of dog activity, even police work. And very unfair to

the dog, because it was causing confusion (and fear and panic).

Probably methods like that only make the original fault that they were "working on" a hell

of a lot worse.

luvsablue

[Aidan]

It does look pretty extreme training, but perhaps it's a pretty extreme dog that requires heavy correction and domination by the handler.

Let's imagine that this is an extreme dog (it isn't, or the handler wouldn't have got away with what he was doing), and that this is his last chance to stay on earth. The simple fact is that it isn't working. Repeated punishment that doesn't work is abuse.

[sas]

It does look pretty extreme training, but perhaps it's a pretty extreme dog that requires heavy correction and domination by the handler.

Let's imagine that this is an extreme dog (it isn't, or the handler wouldn't have got away with what he was doing), and that this is his last chance to stay on earth. The simple fact is that it isn't working. Repeated punishment that doesn't work is abuse.

Nice simple response that makes the most sense in this entire thread.

[Cosmolo]

What Aidan said

[corvus]

Not to get too OT, but just following on from your post Corvus, I don't think frustration alone is a bad thing. I also think frustration can build drive if it's used properly.

Oh, I think frustration is generally at least a little bit aversive. I know it always is for me. But that doesn't make it bad or punishing. Personally, I think it's a good thing to teach a dog to cope with frustration, and if they can cope with it it does IME tend to make them more determined and gives them the ability to think through a high level of arousal. But in the video the dog looked to me frustrated with no means of alleviating that frustration and the only thing it was focussing on was the thing that was getting it alpha rolled. What's it meant to do? It's in no state to think of something new that might earn it a break. I think that's terrible training and the kind of thing that might set the trainer up to be bitten with some dogs.

[Donegal]

It does look pretty extreme training, but perhaps it's a pretty extreme dog that requires heavy correction and domination by the handler.

Let's imagine that this is an extreme dog (it isn't, or the handler wouldn't have got away with what he was doing), and that this is his last chance to stay on earth. The simple fact is that it isn't working. Repeated punishment that doesn't work is abuse.

How do you know "it's not working" when no one really knows what behavior they are trying to fix. The dog didn't attack the handler, so perhaps the next level of arousal previously was attacking the handler then in that case, it may have worked???. Although it looks bad, I would like to think that police dog training was professional enough to use those methods for a reason assuming that the trainers do the job for a living???

[aussielover]

It does look pretty extreme training, but perhaps it's a pretty extreme dog that requires heavy correction and domination by the handler.

Let's imagine that this is an extreme dog (it isn't, or the handler wouldn't have got away with what he was doing), and that this is his last chance to stay on earth. The simple fact is that it isn't working. Repeated punishment that doesn't work is abuse.

How do you know "it's not working" when no one really knows what behavior they are trying to fix. The dog didn't attack the handler, so perhaps the next level of arousal previously was attacking the handler then in that case, it may have worked???. Although it looks bad, I would like to think that police dog training was professional enough to use those methods for a reason assuming that the trainers do the job for a living???

I don't think the handler was performing the "correction" in a professional way- getting obviously frustrated with the dog and angry with it.

If a correction is necessary, it should be carried out in a calm controlled way.

[Aidan]

How do you know "it's not working" when no one really knows what behavior they are trying to fix. The dog didn't attack the handler, so perhaps the next level of arousal previously was attacking the handler then in that case, it may have worked???

If it was working he wouldn't have had to keep repeating it over and over and over and over and over until I lost count. Granted we don't know what they were trying to correct, but it happened every time the dog mouthed him, and the dog was still mouthing him at the end.

If the dog had been biting him and this stopped it, then I'd have to say OH&S laws in Baltimore must be fairly lax.

[55chevy]

I have 2 GSD's I train on an amateur basis, one is from highly driven working line ancestory who can redirect prey energy in the wrong areas in a high state of arousal and bit me on the leg once through my own errors of not providing clarity in the game and the bite he gave me wasn't the dog's fault as at that stage in training he knew no better. He was agitated in prey drive to bite the decoy's sleeve up on his back legs and I moved my knee in quickly to assume better balance, he saw my leg appear and took the bite. He outed immediately on command although gritting my teeth in pain, ended the exercise where I praised him for the out.

My dog is not handler aggressive in the slightest and he didn't bite me through aggression, but had I taken an approach to attack or dominate him with an alpha roll because he bit me through my own stupidity, he wouldn't have understood what he had done wrong only that I attacked him out of the blue which I don't consider is a good thing for the dog to experience from the person he should trust the most.

The dog in the video looked panicked, didn't know what behavior to offer or have any direction from the handler what it was supposed to be doing. If the dog had of bitten the handlers face in the alpha roll, serves him right, completely dumb training approach for my 2 cents worth.

[siks3]

from what i saw in the video the dog was over stimulated and mouthed the handler.

The lifting of the dog with a choker collar will remove drive in most cases.

But this dog appeared to be a very hard GSD and the level of correction would need to be high.

Even after being lifted and pined the dog still didn't appear to be worried so I would put this dog in the hard category.

When the dog was lifted by the collar it still turned on the handler so the next level of correction wold have to be higher so the dog would learn that the behavior is unacceptable.

But this sort of problem should have been avoided in the first place. I have raised a few hard GSD and I put them on prong collars from a very young age and the word "no" has to be taught as soon as possible. The correction needs to be hard enough to startle the dog and cause it mild pain but as soon as it stops the behavior praise follows and lots of it.

It seems that dog had incorrect training to begin with.

[Nekhbet]

It's not a german shepherd it's a malinois. Too much prey drive, no control and hence he's wrestling with a dog that is in an over excited state. Considering these dogs are bred to take a lot of physical punishment and not come out of drive he's being a complete dick about the whole thing.

how about remove stimulus, settle dog down and do some control work ... too hard for some people.

[Erny]

It's not a german shepherd it's a malinois. Too much prey drive, no control and hence he's wrestling with a dog that is in an over excited state. Considering these dogs are bred to take a lot of physical punishment and not come out of drive he's being a complete dick about the whole thing.

how about remove stimulus, settle dog down and do some control work ... too hard for some people.

Agree.

[Akayla]

Ive seen hard corrections given in the armed forces so I get what this guy was trying to do but he sure was crap at it if you ask me.

They have a saying. If you have to do it, then do it, but do it once hard - any more than that and you have made a mistake. Ive seen an officer do this with a dog. Its done once. The dog isnt allowed up untill its calm. This guy was making it worse and worse! I cant believe how bad that was.

People like that give people who do use corrections a bad name.

I can see no reason that that would be helpful. Further more frankly if the dog was that over the top in drive its returned to the breeder or PTS'd.

What I saw was a dog that became over stimulated. Then the trainer pushed it past that. Then the dog would have been no good that day.

Police/armed forces do have to control their dogs but i think this was clearly over the top and the handler was new, it would have been better for someone more seasoned to have stepped in just to settle the situation and show the guy how to do it. Clearly getting off the animal when its scratching you taught it only to fight harder. Once. Hard. finish. If you cant do that then dont do it at ALL!

[Jeff Jones]

from what i saw in the video the dog was over stimulated and mouthed the handler.

The lifting of the dog with a choker collar will remove drive in most cases.

but this dog appeared to be a very hard GSD and the level of correction would need to be high.

Even after being lifted and pined the dog still didn't appear to be worried so I would put this dog in the hard category.

When the dog was lifted by the collar it still turned on the handler so the next level of correction wold have to be higher so the dog would learn that the behavior is unacceptable.

But this sort of problem should have been avoided in the first place. I have raised a few hard GSD and I put them on prong collars from a very young age and the word "no" has to be taught as soon as possible. The correction needs to be hard enough to startle the dog and cause it mild pain but as soon as it stops the behavior praise follows and lots of it.

It seems that dog had incorrect training to begin with.

Were you watching the same video as everyone else?

As has been said several times before that is not a "hard" dog by any stretch of the imagination. I have a dog in my lounge room that would be considered a "hard" dog, he has sent several dog handlers to hospital and has been passed around between different government departments. I am fairly confident in saying you would be seriously hurt if you attempted to correct this dog in such a manner.

Edited October 21, 2010 by Jeff Jones

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: we cant really see what the decoy is doing, bad decoy work that adds frustration with no vent produces this type of behaviour in a high drive dog. There may not have been a decoy either as they hand what looks like a side arm back to the handler and I think I heard him say something about dry firing it, perhaps the dog ramps up under gun fire, even so this is far from anything close to what should be done...

The dog looks like a young dog with little training, lucky though because a serious dog would have crunched that fool who keeps climbing on top of it. I heard him getting instructions from somebody who was brave enough to tell him what to do rather than do it...

This looks like training from 20 years ago but looking at the Patrol car its recent. It is a very poor training session by some very lucky people, a seasoned civil dog would really have a ball with this type of treatment.

[Erny]

It is a very poor training session by some very lucky people, a seasoned civil dog would really have a ball with this type of treatment.

Literally.

[Steve K9Pro]

It is a very poor training session by some very lucky people, a seasoned civil dog would really have a ball with this type of treatment.

Literally.

K9: lol or two...

This is usually the sort of training you see when the trainer and decoy have matching white singlets, shorts and thongs on...

[PAX]

From what I could work out of the training it looks sad, poor dog.

IMO it looks like they are trying to get the dog to lose focus on the attacker...(but who knows) it's very sad, and god bless Malinois drive, looks like really bad training/handling and I don't imagine the poor dog learnt anything that helps the handler.

Wonder how anyone could think slamming a dog on it's back that many times would make training better, no matter what the drive.

[Nekhbet]

As has been said several times before that is not a "hard" dog by any stretch of the imagination. I have a dog in my lounge room that would be considered a "hard" dog, he has sent several dog handlers to hospital and has been passed around between different government departments. I am fairly confident in saying you would be seriously hurt if you attempted to correct this dog in such a manner.

nawwwwww if you get sick of him send him here need a holiday project

the dog was overstimulated due to the handgun, hence everytime he went to touch it and the dog arced up he threw it to the ground screaming LEAVE and PHOOEY some decent drive training could have fixed that

[Aidan]

This is usually the sort of training you see when the trainer and decoy have matching white singlets, shorts and thongs on...

Hey! I've never done that to a dog...