Baltimore Police Dog Training Video

[huski]

Has anyone else seen this vid?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-mJUSk9LUc

Edited October 16, 2010 by huski

[Kynan]

I found that hard to watch. Didn't look like the dog was learning anything from those corrections.

[Seita]

that's horrible! I can't believe they train like that!!!

[huski]

I found it hard to watch too... what is the purpose of "training" the dog in that fashion? What is it achieving? Regardless of whether it is a police office or it's a police dog or what method he is using it's clear he is correcting the dog out of anger, it doesn't look like he does anything right in the vid at all.

Edited October 16, 2010 by huski

[Donegal]

It does look pretty extreme training, but perhaps it's a pretty extreme dog that requires heavy correction and domination by the handler. It's obviously attacked trained being a police dog I would imagine, maybe it has been attacking the handler getting certain commands wrong or something like that, and the individual dog needs that type of training to straighten it out???.

I don't think all dogs are the same or have identical traits in all cases to say that because other like police dogs have been trained successfully without harsh treatment, that the dog in the video can be trained without it too. A KNPV trainer who specialises in working Malinois and Dutch Shepherds told me once that some temperaments and the level of attack training, the dog unless fearing the handler is not a safe working prospect and some will apparantly attack the handler when ramped up in aggression in some circumstances and perhaps the dog in the video is one of them???.

I don't think any of us unless knowing the circumstances with that dog and what is trying to be achieved by the training could totally say that the training is wrong, could we, I don't know???

[huski]

the dog unless fearing the handler is not a safe working prospect and some will apparantly attack the handler when ramped up in aggression in some circumstances and perhaps the dog in the video is one of them???.

I can't imagine why in any circumstance it would be desirable to have a working dog that feared the handler.

[Erny]

I don't like it either - but because I don't know the circumstances behind it, I feel I have little choice other than to reserve my judgement on it. I heard in the background the guy instructing the handler say "I don't like doing this but because ....." and then it chopped off. I would really like to know what the reasoning was behind this. Was it a serious issue one step behind euthanasia? What other methods had already been tried and failed (for what issue)? I don't know the answers to any of these questions. Doesn't make me like it any more and from only what I could see by that video clip, I felt it was wrong - I didn't see any huge crime that the dog was committing (errors, yes) but then that too is unclear from the video footage. But still leaves me with not being able to know if it was necessary and better than any remaining alternative. Also doesn't show us if there was any value gained by it.

Edited October 16, 2010 by Erny

[Cosmolo]

There is NO excuse for that. Even what he was trying to do he wasn't doing well. Huski do you think you should put a warning in the topic title- some people may not want to watch it.

[Erny]

Even what he was trying to do he wasn't doing well.

I agree.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

The only thing I could think would make that ok is if they're trying to teach the dog to deal with bad people. Because only bad people would do that.

I got to meet some local police dog handlers and they don't use methods like that anymore. It's mostly rewards based training - with toys as much as possible. And I've seen the dogs working in the field and there's no corrections given.

That dog never offered up a submit or stopped doing what it was doing except when the handler sat on it and it didn't have any choice. Given the handler was not wearing any protective gear, I think a full sized GSD could have done some serious damage if it wanted.

I think picking a dog up by the collar and throwing it on the ground is a serious risk to its spine too. Maybe the USA society for prevention of cruelty to animals would be interested? But I also can't tell how old the video was. Even with the car in the picture. Methods like that were commonplace a long time ago.

[Kavik]

I couldn't watch much of that - too sad

[SmoothieGirl]

Right, well that was fun to watch - NOT! That was sickening and I had to turn it off part way through.

You can hear the dog getting more and more agitated and concerned as he throws it around. Towards the end it sounds panicked and aggressive and bloody hell, why wouldn't it be, how can that be a good outcome? Surely his response, attitude and physicality was making it so?

IMO a dog is a partner and not just a tool in police work. If the dog isn't cut out for it then don't use it, sack it. But bullying an animal of any kind let alone one you want to work somewhat safely amongst the general population, rarely ends well in the long term.

Ok, nuff of a rant, I'm going to open a bottle of wine now to drown the yelps out of my memory.

Edited because in my huff I forgot how to type.

Edited October 16, 2010 by SmoothieGirl

[moosmum]

I didn't watch it through either,too much for me but IMO no excuses.Hope it was a very old vid.

I do think some times the drives being bred for the work are too extreme,and don't see the benefit if they have to be curbed in such a way.

[Donegal]

the dog unless fearing the handler is not a safe working prospect and some will apparantly attack the handler when ramped up in aggression in some circumstances and perhaps the dog in the video is one of them???.

I can't imagine why in any circumstance it would be desirable to have a working dog that feared the handler.

It may be desirable if the dog has a record of attacking the handler perhaps. What was explained to me once, is that attack trained dogs are taught to fear nothing and react aggressively to physical challenge, but it's not desirable obviously if the dog can go into a full on handler attack for some reason??? I was told that sometimes when a dog doesn't mind having a go at the handler, teaching the dog that if attacking the handler it comes off second best is necessary in some circumstances.

I don't know what the accepted practice is to treat handler aggression, but teaching the dog it can't beat the handler in a fight makes sense I guess???

[Donegal]

I didn't watch it through either,too much for me but IMO no excuses.Hope it was a very old vid.

I do think some times the drives being bred for the work are too extreme,and don't see the benefit if they have to be curbed in such a way.

I don't know why the police would need a dog to be overly violent considering they have a gun on their hips to protect themselves, It's not that the dog should be their ultimate weapon of defence.

[lovemesideways]

Thats horrifying. What the hell is the point behind what he is doing?

[OSoSwift]

I am still trying to figure out what he actually wanted the dog to do?????

I heard a dog that was fearful, agitated and frightened.

I am AMAZED that he was not bitten. If the dog was aggressive then I would imagine that if they did that and it was not muzzled the dog would have attacked/bitten.

I spent most of my time trying to figure out what the dog was actually doing wrong and I still cannot figure it out.

No I do not know the reason why he was doing that to the dog, however I cannot imagine a reason why that sort of non-training would be recommended or acceptable. If that is how they train their dogs I hope I am never around when one is off lead working as I imagine that that sort of "training"(used very loosely) would produce a rather random dog.

I am shaking my head in disbelief!

[Leema]

Even supporters of positive punishment can observe that the methods used in this video were not adversive to the dog. For the first half of the video, the dog seems pretty confident despite the actions of the cop.

I don't think this dog learnt anything from this experience that would be benefical to a working dog.

As such, this video is objectionable to me.

(That being said, I do not believe there would be a case where I would not object to a dog being lifted by a collar or device around its neck.)

[sas]

I don't like it either - but because I don't know the circumstances behind it, I feel I have little choice other than to reserve my judgement on it. I heard in the background the guy instructing the handler say "I don't like doing this but because ....." and then it chopped off. I would really like to know what the reasoning was behind this. Was it a serious issue one step behind euthanasia? What other methods had already been tried and failed (for what issue)? I don't know the answers to any of these questions. Doesn't make me like it any more and from only what I could see by that video clip, I felt it was wrong - I didn't see any huge crime that the dog was committing (errors, yes) but then that too is unclear from the video footage. But still leaves me with not being able to know if it was necessary and better than any remaining alternative. Also doesn't show us if there was any value gained by it.

:D I disagree....there is no reasonable reason for that kind of treatment of a dog in training, the guy wasn't achieving anything, looked like he was making the situation worse.

Edited October 16, 2010 by sas

[Jeff Jones]

I don't think any of us unless knowing the circumstances with that dog and what is trying to be achieved by the training could totally say that the training is wrong, could we, I don't know???

I do not care what the circumstances are regarding the dog, what the handler is doing is wrong.

I am assuming from watching the video that the handler is trying to correct the dog for mouthing his arm. The handler is an idiot and is obviously trying a new technique for correcting the dog to break this behaviour, the handler is listening to and following instructions from someone else, you can hear someone telling the handler what to do during the course of the video.

I may be completely wrong but I guess the handler was attempting to complete firearms training / tactical handling scenarios with the dog. The video starts with the handler in a tactical shooting position when the dog begins to mouth his arm.