Hounded By The Law

[raz]

They have every right to fight the fine in court - its part of our great democracy Raz....and what about the people who really waste police and court time, I seem to remember just recently a young muslim woman claimed the police pulled her headscarf off, and after a significant waste of police time and public money, it was proved she was lying through her teeth. Can't seem to remember your post complaining about that....

Hi tracie I always wonder when you'll pop up and start Muslim bashing. Good to see you, lovey.

Yes I did comment, infact. Nothing to do with this thread, though. Maybe read the forum rules about hijacking threads.

Edited October 30, 2010 by raz

[schnauzer]

I bet his dog was off leash too.

He was breaking the law. It is illegal to have dogs on eastern suburbs beaches, whether it be on the rocks or the sand. Gordons Bay is a tiny bay and beach on the ocean walk.

[Tim'sMum]

Yes, this is why I'd have thought I wasn't contravening the law, carrying the tiny-sized dog in the same circumstances (& being on the move!).

So I'd have found myself in the same position as the dog's owners.

But seems like the ranger thought otherwise & interpreted the law as a dog, any dog, having a presence on the beach (carried or not).

Which would have copped me a fine, too.

My only difference is that I wouldn't have fought the case in court, knowing how literally the law is interpreted by authority. So I'd have thought it too much of a risk of costing me more money, by challenging it.

I'd have just paid the original fine, putting it down to another situation where the letter of the law (the little dog was present on the beach) outclasses the spirit of the law (my little dog was not physically touching the beach!).

I'm sorry you had to cop a fine for what is really such a trivial reason Mita.

[WreckitWhippet]

Well, I am not allowed to take my dog to work with me, but if I use your logic and carry it around all day, it won't be at work will it?

They didn't carry it around all day on the beach. It was outside, not inside a building. You can't use that as a logical argument.

Of course, she can.

Scratching my head here. What's so hard about grasping the concept? The dog was on the beach.

Even worse - the owner clogged up the court list with garbage. I'm convinced it's Barking Mad loonies.

You're right Razzle, it smells like barking mad and their idiocy. If they aren't fully paid up members, they should think about joining.

[raz]

The style reads the same as the woman who started BM, doesnt it.

I'm still laughing at the comment that they had to be in court by 10am and were then made to sit around all day with criminals

[WreckitWhippet]

I find the 73 bags of poo comment rather ironic. Do you think that was a message to those who think the litter laws don't apply to them and their dog. Much like no dogs on the beach.

[raz]

I find the 73 bags of poo comment rather ironic. Do you think that was a message to those who think the litter laws don't apply to them and their dog. Much like no dogs on the beach.

Yep! As well as - hey look at me I'm a responsible dog owner who didnt have my dog on the beach because she was in my arms

The sign doesnt say - No dogs on Sand. I might have to test this out. Next time I see a sign saying - No Dogs in Food Preparation Areas - I might just pick up Pancake and walk in to a cafe kitchen and see if I get forced to sit in court all day with criminal flotsam and jetsam

[lucylotto]

Good on em for fighting it. Too many stupid revenue raising laws, too many bone head council rangers who are just frustrated cops, far too many anti dog laws. Too many people who one assumes are pro dog who make fun of people like this and who just roll over when more and more anti dog laws are introduced.

Thank you Tracie.

I find it hard to understand why so many dog owners are paying out on people who attempted to NOT break the law. They saw a sign saying 'No dogs on the Beach"...obviously designed to stop dogs pooping and peeing on the beach and keep them away from kids, swimmers, picnickers etc. which is fair enough...so they carried their dog across the beach (for less than a minute probably) to an area of common land (being the foreshore) where presumably dogs are allowed, because there were no signs saying....'No dogs on the rocks or the foreshore'. A dog is ON the beach when it's paws are touching the sand. It can't be ON a beach if it is carried, it can't poop or pee or annoy people on the beach...which is what the 'law' is trying to prevent.

Just how anal are we as a society going to get?

I wish Council Rangers were as quick to fine every perfectly healthy bastard that parks in Disabled Parking. Our local shopping centre has very limited disabled spaces, and I think people would be surprised at just how often people park in these spots, without a legitimate Disabled Parking Permit. I actually rang the Centre Office to complain about how often I see it happen (and how often I end up parking at the far end of the car park and then have to push a wheelchair with my 60kg mum on board much further than I should). The shopping centre have said it happens often.......but only Council Rangers can fine them...yet they rarely ever bother to visit the car park. Why....???? They are probably too busy fining people who have carried a tiny dog across a beach.

Incredibly anal. No one allowed to make a judgement call or use their own brains anymore. Not just in a case like this but in every single walk and act of life these days so it seems. It drives me ....173657826 nuts!

Its all to do with the dumb asses out there who have only half a brain and do the wrong thing time and again (they are raised poorly and unable to make good judgement calls as they have never been raised to consider anybody but themselves first) so we then have the people with more than half a brain hellbent (who lobbying anything excites them) on trying to purify and sanitise our entire society so they can peacefully live within the order and structure they so crave. Time to go bush I think. Sorry..... rant over.

I would have paid up and shut up cos its all too tiring.

I have taken cityrail to court over my son not having his train pass on him (in yr 8 and typical disorganised young immature (which you are allowed to be when you are only 13, boy on occasions) so was a minor in complete college uniform. He didn't have the $ to pay a fine but when I tried to intervene was told they would only deal with him directly. Similar context - situation is obvious (young boy, going to school, in uniform) but official not allowed, capable or willing to use the brain to evaluate.

The judge thought it ridiculous (and the train official a power hungry dhead), we won.

[raz]

I have taken cityrail to court over my son not having his train pass on him (in yr 8 and typical disorganised young immature (which you are allowed to be when you are only 13, boy on occasions) so was a minor in complete college uniform. He didn't have the $ to pay a fine but when I tried to intervene was told they would only deal with him directly. Similar context - situation is obvious (young boy, going to school, in uniform) but official not allowed, capable or willing to use the brain to evaluate.

The judge thought it ridiculous (and the train official a power hungry dhead), we won.

Now THAT was worth fighting. Good for you and I'm glad you won. What a waste of time for you, though. Poor kid. Utterly bloody ridiculous.

[Sheridan]

I was actually having a really funny discussion (albeit quite frightening) with someone yesterday who said she has 'the right to take my dog on the beach'. I said - errrr no you dont if the Council prohibits dogs on the beach. I dont know why they just dont get it. Are people really that incredibly stupid?

Kinda reminds me of the people who think they have the right to send their kids to school with peanut butter and other nutty foods when there is a clear policy of no nuts.

My kids like peanut butter but no way would i endanger someone elses child by letting them take it to school.

And yet there have been previous discussions on DOL where people have said that they don't think they should be told what they can and can't put in a kid's lunchbox even if what they put in endangers another kid's life.

[hoffpig]

I sympathise entirely with these people, having had council rangers descend on our community and start writing fines with disgusting zeal. What possible harm was done? Isn't $300 just the most ridiculous amount of money, and isn't this rapacious revenue raising getting completely out of hand? It astonishes me that there is such a vitriolic response to an article which made me shake my head and despair of the nanny/police state this place is becoming.

[hoffpig]

Or has become, rather.

[raz]

It astonishes me that there is such a vitriolic response to an article which made me shake my head and despair of the nanny/police state this place is becoming.

Because it's precisely the attitude that 'my Fluffy has rights' that brings in more legislation. What harm was done? One twit makes all dog owners look like irresponsible dickheads.

[hoffpig]

Well, I disagree with you but I'm pretty sure you're not Hitler. A person carrying a dog to a place she regarded as legal and defending her case in court is hardly an irresponsible dickhead. We're not all 100pc law-abiding, card-carrying little party robots, you know. I jay-walk sometimes and have parked in a loading zone at least once.

(The poo bags had probably been emptied out of a bin at Centennial Park, I imagine. I wonder what the fine for that would have been?)

[raz]

Well, I disagree with you but I'm pretty sure you're not Hitler. A person carrying a dog to a place she regarded as legal and defending her case in court is hardly an irresponsible dickhead. We're not all 100pc law-abiding, card-carrying little party robots, you know.

Sure that's fine. I'm not a card carrying robot either but if I see a sign saying no dogs, I dont go in there with my dogs - either on the ground or up in the air. It's irresponsible.

[Mum to Emma]

Well, I disagree with you but I'm pretty sure you're not Hitler. A person carrying a dog to a place she regarded as legal and defending her case in court is hardly an irresponsible dickhead. We're not all 100pc law-abiding, card-carrying little party robots, you know.

Sure that's fine. I'm not a card carrying robot either but if I see a sign saying no dogs, I dont go in there with my dogs - either on the ground or up in the air. It's irresponsible.

Good for you! I'm sick of people who ignore 'dogs must be on leash' signs. Who will literally stand next to such a sign and take OFF their dog's leash so that it can run free in an ON LEASH park. I have as much right to be able to walk my dogs in an area where I'm guaranteed not to be harassed by other dogs as they have to let their precious pooches charge, chase, and poop anywhere and everywhere. There are plenty of leash free parks, but these selfish a*seholes are just too lazy to walk the extra 100m to find one.

In this case the council officer was being over zealous and the fine was ludicrous but they are no doubt responding to complaints about the huge number of dogs owners who think dog control signs don't apply to them.

[raz]

In this case the council officer was being over zealous and the fine was ludicrous but they are no doubt responding to complaints about the huge number of dogs owners who think dog control signs don't apply to them.

YES!!! It's crazy, isnt it. People think they're standing up for their 'rights' by flaunting laws. It's exactly why they're there to start with. 40 k school zones are pretty stupid but they're not going to be overturned because some idiot thinks they can speed through at 80 clicks just to thumb their nose.

[spyda62]

Just because the dog was 4.8kg is no defence anyway. If I carry my 30kg dog in my arms across the beach does that make it okay too?

[raz]

Just because the dog was 4.8kg is no defence anyway. If I carry my 30kg dog in my arms across the beach does that make it okay too?

Isnt it funny. Just because a dog is small does not mean the owner can get away with it. My dogs are small but shit. It doesnt mean I am above the law...or that I can clog up the List just because I'm an asshole with too much time and money on my hands.

Do the right bloody thing and you wont get fined - or treated like an idiot and get done for costs. Simple.

[hoffpig]

Should people be able to walk down a country lane with an off-leash dog? Or should the fines still apply? For e.g. if I am visiting my friends in Cobbora, is it irresponsible to walk my three 12-year-old, small to middling, well-mannered dogs off-leash down the dirt road outside their house (and 100+ hectares) and if I am fined $330x3 should I defend the case?

If a responsible dog owner deems that no possible harm can be done by, or to, their very small dog on the rocks out of reach of any bather or anyone else on a beach ...

... we have such a different idea of dickhead it is quite amazing that we are even of the same species. We also have very different ideas about freedoms that are worth defending.

We also clearly have a very different notion of what enjoying dogs is all about - and here where I live, when beaches are E-M-P-T-Y, as they will be for hours on any weekday (and for days in winter), my boys and I will frolic and rejoice with any other of the many dog owners who also think stupid, stifling, ghastly laws that do no one but revenue any good should be shoved where the sun don't shine. And, yes, if I cop a fine I will fight it in court.

If rights aren't worth defending, some simple pleasures surely are.

Also, I despair of people blaming "irresponsible dog owners" all the time even when nothing has happened and less than bugger all (as in this instance) harm has been done. This person copped court costs that might have bought four rescues from Monika's. They think it's absurd, and so do I. But even more ridiculous is how Good dog owners are tails down, back in their box, whimpering and yelping "bad dog owner" and having their animals' liberties curtailed at every juncture - banned from beaches, parks, playgrounds, cafes and all the rest. Muzzles on. Jackboots on ... and down this road we go. But maybe leave the dog at home, just to be safe.

Edited November 7, 2010 by hoffpig