Answer From Another Thread.

[toy dog]

Still - its not a situation where you need to get dogsvic standing on this because its already the law. It has been the law for ever and its just never been policed much. Regsitered breders thought environment and planning laws didn't affect them. They do.

Stand back from this and look at what is being said. Animal lib has been calling for councils to do their job and police current laws. Oscars law is calling for tougher laws .Pollies on both sides have said we will make tougher laws. Tougher laws even if they are nly about who will police current laws will impact on you more than they will commercial puppy farmers because they already have their permits and comply with the laws. Sure there are some who breed out the back of the boonies in rotten conditions but they are already breaking the current laws - they can easily shut them down - just as they can you if they wanted to.

i want to know what they are going to do about it , what are they doing exactly? have they done anything at all. i want their answer to this. and why aren't they doing anything. or if they have done something what is it they've done. this is what the members should be asking of them, afterall we pay them to stand up for us and as far as i can see here in this thread they aren't doing it.

oscarslaw are calling for a ban on sales on petshops and shut down farms, they keep on saying it i can paste from fb page if you like the oscarslaws fb page.

RSPCA are calling for tougher laws and polies are delivering as far as they are concerned. people are saying on their FB pages are you listening guys, we want to shut down farms we don't want any more laws. we want oscarslaw which says banning of sales, shut down farms. they also say starting a real campaign about pet ownership and i got into this further and it said desexing pets.

this is what im saying, farms are legal and already conform to all laws so it doesn't affect them. people are asking for these farms to close but instead polies are just putting more laws up, is it what the public want? no. is it what anyone wants no, its what RSPCA want and what by the looks of it they are going to get despite many calling for something completely different.

[Steve]

HAVE YOU GOT THE CONNECTION YET?

From the animal liberation website.

HOW YOU CAN HELP

Please help us push for a ban on puppy factories by sending a letter to Premier John Brumby via the oscarslaw.org website.

14 September 2010

ALV's openrescue team has been busy documenting horrific conditions on Victorian puppy farms over the past 18 months. From one end of the state to the other it's clear the situation is dire for dogs, who are locked up for years and used as breeding machines. Once they are no longer economically viable they get killed. One puppy farmer told us "Yeah, they get a bullet to the head!".

BAN PUPPY FARMS RALLY!

When: Sunday, Sep 19, 12pm – 2pm

Where: Steps of Parliament House, Melbourne.

Skye Brown is an animal rights activist who has been a member of ALV's Openrescue team since 2008. In the last 2 years he has recorded video footage at many Victorian puppy farms.

"Before I set foot on a puppy farm, I really didn't know where the puppies in Australian pet shops came from. It's easy to pretend that the puppies staring out through the glass originally came from caring and loving environments. Now I know first hand that these pups and their parents have experienced pure hell. These puppies are mass produced in factories right here in Victoria. You wouldn't believe how many of these puppy factories are hidden away from view, operating with the silent approval from government and local council.

What is clear throughout all of the puppy factories I have witnessed, is that these animals are treated as mere commodities. They are held in what can only be described as prisons. Puppies are taken away from their mothers when they are weeks old - never to be seen again. Meanwhile the mothers are forced to continue on as breeding machines, they are then killed when their bodies can no longer cope with the continual breeding.

ALV is currently working in conjunction with Oscar's Law to investigate the ongoing abuse of dogs in puppy farms. We all need to keep exposing these horrific puppy factories and putting pressure on the government to end this cruel profiteering."

Visit oscarslaw.org for more information.

Please contact Premier John Brumby and let him know that puppy factories must stop: [email protected]

[toy dog]

I'm confused as to what Animal Lib has to do with anything.

Goes off to look at the draft of Oscar's Law and the draft of the RSPCA solution of puppy factories.

when you find the connection let me know, im going around in circles here.

O.K, Go here - animal liberation website. Thats a start.

http://www.alv.org.au/issues/puppyfactories.php

21 September 2010

7PM Project on Channel 10 ran a great story tonight about puppy factories featuring an interview with Debra Tranter (oscarslaw.org) and showing footage from ALV's recent investigation at a Victorian puppy factory.

yeah? and that is talking about puppy factories?

[Steve]

Still - its not a situation where you need to get dogsvic standing on this because its already the law. It has been the law for ever and its just never been policed much. Regsitered breders thought environment and planning laws didn't affect them. They do.

Stand back from this and look at what is being said. Animal lib has been calling for councils to do their job and police current laws. Oscars law is calling for tougher laws .Pollies on both sides have said we will make tougher laws. Tougher laws even if they are nly about who will police current laws will impact on you more than they will commercial puppy farmers because they already have their permits and comply with the laws. Sure there are some who breed out the back of the boonies in rotten conditions but they are already breaking the current laws - they can easily shut them down - just as they can you if they wanted to.

i want to know what they are going to do about it , what are they doing exactly? have they done anything at all. i want their answer to this. and why aren't they doing anything. or if they have done something what is it they've done. this is what the members should be asking of them, afterall we pay them to stand up for us and as far as i can see here in this thread they aren't doing it.

oscarslaw are calling for a ban on sales on petshops and shut down farms, they keep on saying it i can paste from fb page if you like the oscarslaws fb page.

RSPCA are calling for tougher laws and polies are delivering as far as they are concerned. people are saying on their FB pages are you listening guys, we want to shut down farms we don't want any more laws. we want oscarslaw which says banning of sales, shut down farms. they also say starting a real campaign about pet ownership and i got into this further and it said desexing pets.

this is what im saying, farms are legal and already conform to all laws so it doesn't affect them. people are asking for these farms to close but instead polies are just putting more laws up, is it what the public want? no. is it what anyone wants no, its what RSPCA want and what by the looks of it they are going to get despite many calling for something completely different.

Perhaps a better question is what should we be doing about it. Not pushing for new laws which will expose the fact that most registered breeders are in breach of local laws ?

they are calling for tougher laws and any new laws affect any one who breeds not just one tiny group and thats what we have been trying to say.

I sat at the roundatable conference and Im promising you they are after anyone who breeds dogs in sub standard conditions. What is sub standard conditions? Conditions which don't comply with local environment laws and mandatory codes. That's you. Oscar law may say only commercial breeders but this is Australia and you cant make laws for them and not us.

[toy dog]

HAVE YOU GOT THE CONNECTION YET?

From the animal liberation website.

HOW YOU CAN HELP

Please help us push for a ban on puppy factories by sending a letter to Premier John Brumby via the oscarslaw.org website.

14 September 2010

ALV's openrescue team has been busy documenting horrific conditions on Victorian puppy farms over the past 18 months. From one end of the state to the other it's clear the situation is dire for dogs, who are locked up for years and used as breeding machines. Once they are no longer economically viable they get killed. One puppy farmer told us "Yeah, they get a bullet to the head!".

BAN PUPPY FARMS RALLY!

When: Sunday, Sep 19, 12pm – 2pm

Where: Steps of Parliament House, Melbourne.

Skye Brown is an animal rights activist who has been a member of ALV's Openrescue team since 2008. In the last 2 years he has recorded video footage at many Victorian puppy farms.

"Before I set foot on a puppy farm, I really didn't know where the puppies in Australian pet shops came from. It's easy to pretend that the puppies staring out through the glass originally came from caring and loving environments. Now I know first hand that these pups and their parents have experienced pure hell. These puppies are mass produced in factories right here in Victoria. You wouldn't believe how many of these puppy factories are hidden away from view, operating with the silent approval from government and local council.

What is clear throughout all of the puppy factories I have witnessed, is that these animals are treated as mere commodities. They are held in what can only be described as prisons. Puppies are taken away from their mothers when they are weeks old - never to be seen again. Meanwhile the mothers are forced to continue on as breeding machines, they are then killed when their bodies can no longer cope with the continual breeding.

ALV is currently working in conjunction with Oscar's Law to investigate the ongoing abuse of dogs in puppy farms. We all need to keep exposing these horrific puppy factories and putting pressure on the government to end this cruel profiteering."

Visit oscarslaw.org for more information.

Please contact Premier John Brumby and let him know that puppy factories must stop: [email protected]

so wheres the bit that says we are going to be treated the same as a puppy factory under the same laws, this is the connection im looking for. not bits about puppy farms. :p

so are you saying that we shouldn't say anything about this movement to rat out puppy farms because this is directly related to us? or will be down the track, tht is just so crap, where is the justice in this?

so we should turn a blind eye to these puppy factories in our backyards. even though i've been told numerous times that reg breeders aren't being targetted are these people lying?

who is lying who is tellng the truth. meanwhile these factories with these arseholes (sorry but thats what they are are allowed to continue) continue to churn out these pups.

i will never turn a blind eye to that. the wellington shire are getting flooded with letters because of oscarslaw people and i can't say i feel sorry for them, as a response they have taken a few to court over the years. each time they have been thrown out of court in the farmers favour. because they say of inadequate laws.

Edited October 15, 2010 by toy dog

[Steve]

Still - its not a situation where you need to get dogsvic standing on this because its already the law. It has been the law for ever and its just never been policed much. Regsitered breders thought environment and planning laws didn't affect them. They do.

Stand back from this and look at what is being said. Animal lib has been calling for councils to do their job and police current laws. Oscars law is calling for tougher laws .Pollies on both sides have said we will make tougher laws. Tougher laws even if they are nly about who will police current laws will impact on you more than they will commercial puppy farmers because they already have their permits and comply with the laws. Sure there are some who breed out the back of the boonies in rotten conditions but they are already breaking the current laws - they can easily shut them down - just as they can you if they wanted to.

i want to know what they are going to do about it , what are they doing exactly? have they done anything at all. i want their answer to this. and why aren't they doing anything. or if they have done something what is it they've done. this is what the members should be asking of them, afterall we pay them to stand up for us and as far as i can see here in this thread they aren't doing it.

oscarslaw are calling for a ban on sales on petshops and shut down farms, they keep on saying it i can paste from fb page if you like the oscarslaws fb page.

RSPCA are calling for tougher laws and polies are delivering as far as they are concerned. people are saying on their FB pages are you listening guys, we want to shut down farms we don't want any more laws. we want oscarslaw which says banning of sales, shut down farms. they also say starting a real campaign about pet ownership and i got into this further and it said desexing pets.

this is what im saying, farms are legal and already conform to all laws so it doesn't affect them. people are asking for these farms to close but instead polies are just putting more laws up, is it what the public want? no. is it what anyone wants no, its what RSPCA want and what by the looks of it they are going to get despite many calling for something completely different.

Perhaps a better question is what should we be doing about it. Not pushing for new laws which will expose the fact that most registered breeders are in breach of local laws ?

they are calling for tougher laws and any new laws affect any one who breeds not just one tiny group and thats what we have been trying to say.

I sat at the roundatable conference and Im promising you they are after anyone who breeds dogs in sub standard conditions. What is sub standard conditions? Conditions which don't comply with local environment laws and mandatory codes. That's you. Oscar law may say only commercial breeders but this is Australia and you cant make laws for them and not us.

Ive no doubt that most in Oscars law have only good intentions in shutting down puppy farmers and so do you but you may think that a puppy farmer is someone who breeds dogs commercially - its not but even if that was the definition they used you cant make laws for one group without making the same laws for the other.

Animal liberation backs Oscars law and that is screaming headlines and a clear and desperate warning for anyone who loves owning an animal to get the hell away from it.

[Steve]

Again

I sat at the roundatable conference and Im promising you they are after anyone who breeds dogs in sub standard conditions. What is sub standard conditions? Conditions which don't comply with local environment laws and mandatory codes.

This is the exact wording.

1.1 A puppy farm (also known as a puppy factory or puppy mill) is defined as an intensive dog breeding facility that is operated under inadequate conditions that fail to meet the dogs’ psychological, behavioural, social and/or physiological needs. Puppy farms are usually large-scale commercial operations, but inadequate conditions may also exist in small volume breeding establishments which may or may not be run for profit.

Do you really think that any laws will only apply to large scale puppy farmers? Where's the magic number ? At what point do you become large scale? How many and is it O.K. to breed in substandard conditions if you only own a couple?

[Steve]

Again

I sat at the roundatable conference and Im promising you they are after anyone who breeds dogs in sub standard conditions. What is sub standard conditions? Conditions which don't comply with local environment laws and mandatory codes.

This is the exact wording.

1.1 A puppy farm (also known as a puppy factory or puppy mill) is defined as an intensive dog breeding facility that is operated under inadequate conditions that fail to meet the dogs’ psychological, behavioural, social and/or physiological needs. Puppy farms are usually large-scale commercial operations, but inadequate conditions may also exist in small volume breeding establishments which may or may not be run for profit.

Do you really think that any laws will only apply to large scale puppy farmers? Where's the magic number ? At what point do you become large scale? How many and is it O.K. to breed in substandard conditions if you only own a couple?

The whole point to this thread was to show you that you are already treated at law the same way a puppy framer is the minute you own more than 2 dogs because of environment and planning laws.

they are already there - they already treat you the same way they just haven't enforced it so for decades you have been able to do what you do without needing all the same things they do to breed a dog. You have had it easy yet you call for laws to make it easier to find out you are not doing the right thing and be policed by those who see you as just as much of a problem as a commercial breeder.

You are a dog breeder just as they are and that means you come under the same laws whether you think you should or not. Your shire says that happens when you own more than 2 dogs.

[~Anne~]

so wheres the bit that says we are going to be treated the same as a puppy factory under the same laws, this is the connection im looking for. not bits about puppy farms. :p

It is the definition that is the crux. The definition of a puppy farm could be any breeding establishment.

[toy dog]

Still - its not a situation where you need to get dogsvic standing on this because its already the law. It has been the law for ever and its just never been policed much. Regsitered breders thought environment and planning laws didn't affect them. They do.

Stand back from this and look at what is being said. Animal lib has been calling for councils to do their job and police current laws. Oscars law is calling for tougher laws .Pollies on both sides have said we will make tougher laws. Tougher laws even if they are nly about who will police current laws will impact on you more than they will commercial puppy farmers because they already have their permits and comply with the laws. Sure there are some who breed out the back of the boonies in rotten conditions but they are already breaking the current laws - they can easily shut them down - just as they can you if they wanted to.

i want to know what they are going to do about it , what are they doing exactly? have they done anything at all. i want their answer to this. and why aren't they doing anything. or if they have done something what is it they've done. this is what the members should be asking of them, afterall we pay them to stand up for us and as far as i can see here in this thread they aren't doing it.

oscarslaw are calling for a ban on sales on petshops and shut down farms, they keep on saying it i can paste from fb page if you like the oscarslaws fb page.

RSPCA are calling for tougher laws and polies are delivering as far as they are concerned. people are saying on their FB pages are you listening guys, we want to shut down farms we don't want any more laws. we want oscarslaw which says banning of sales, shut down farms. they also say starting a real campaign about pet ownership and i got into this further and it said desexing pets.

this is what im saying, farms are legal and already conform to all laws so it doesn't affect them. people are asking for these farms to close but instead polies are just putting more laws up, is it what the public want? no. is it what anyone wants no, its what RSPCA want and what by the looks of it they are going to get despite many calling for something completely different.

Perhaps a better question is what should we be doing about it. Not pushing for new laws which will expose the fact that most registered breeders are in breach of local laws ?

they are calling for tougher laws and any new laws affect any one who breeds not just one tiny group and thats what we have been trying to say.

I sat at the roundatable conference and Im promising you they are after anyone who breeds dogs in sub standard conditions. What is sub standard conditions? Conditions which don't comply with local environment laws and mandatory codes. That's you. Oscar law may say only commercial breeders but this is Australia and you cant make laws for them and not us.

Ive no doubt that most in Oscars law have only good intentions in shutting down puppy farmers and so do you but you may think that a puppy farmer is someone who breeds dogs commercially - its not but even if that was the definition they used you cant make laws for one group without making the same laws for the other.

Animal liberation backs Oscars law and that is screaming headlines and a clear and desperate warning for anyone who loves owning an animal to get the hell away from it.

sounds like you are talking about PETA

[Steve]

HAVE YOU GOT THE CONNECTION YET?

From the animal liberation website.

HOW YOU CAN HELP

Please help us push for a ban on puppy factories by sending a letter to Premier John Brumby via the oscarslaw.org website.

14 September 2010

ALV's openrescue team has been busy documenting horrific conditions on Victorian puppy farms over the past 18 months. From one end of the state to the other it's clear the situation is dire for dogs, who are locked up for years and used as breeding machines. Once they are no longer economically viable they get killed. One puppy farmer told us "Yeah, they get a bullet to the head!".

BAN PUPPY FARMS RALLY!

When: Sunday, Sep 19, 12pm – 2pm

Where: Steps of Parliament House, Melbourne.

Skye Brown is an animal rights activist who has been a member of ALV's Openrescue team since 2008. In the last 2 years he has recorded video footage at many Victorian puppy farms.

"Before I set foot on a puppy farm, I really didn't know where the puppies in Australian pet shops came from. It's easy to pretend that the puppies staring out through the glass originally came from caring and loving environments. Now I know first hand that these pups and their parents have experienced pure hell. These puppies are mass produced in factories right here in Victoria. You wouldn't believe how many of these puppy factories are hidden away from view, operating with the silent approval from government and local council.

What is clear throughout all of the puppy factories I have witnessed, is that these animals are treated as mere commodities. They are held in what can only be described as prisons. Puppies are taken away from their mothers when they are weeks old - never to be seen again. Meanwhile the mothers are forced to continue on as breeding machines, they are then killed when their bodies can no longer cope with the continual breeding.

ALV is currently working in conjunction with Oscar's Law to investigate the ongoing abuse of dogs in puppy farms. We all need to keep exposing these horrific puppy factories and putting pressure on the government to end this cruel profiteering."

Visit oscarslaw.org for more information.

Please contact Premier John Brumby and let him know that puppy factories must stop: [email protected]

so wheres the bit that says we are going to be treated the same as a puppy factory under the same laws, this is the connection im looking for. not bits about puppy farms. :p

so are you saying that we shouldn't say anything about this movement to rat out puppy farms because this is directly related to us? or will be down the track, tht is just so crap, where is the justice in this?

so we should turn a blind eye to these puppy factories in our backyards. even though i've been told numerous times that reg breeders aren't being targetted are these people lying?

who is lying who is tellng the truth. meanwhile these factories with these arseholes (sorry but thats what they are are allowed to continue) continue to churn out these pups.

i will never turn a blind eye to that. the wellington shire are getting flooded with letters because of oscarslaw people and i can't say i feel sorry for them, as a response they have taken a few to court over the years. each time they have been thrown out of court in the farmers favour. because they say of inadequate laws.

Toy dogs part of the problem is that I don't think anyone is lying. I think everyone does really think they are telling the truth.Oscars law really isn't targeting ethical responsible breeders but over and over again you are told that just because that isn't the intention that doesn't mean that it wont happen and how much more do you need to see there is a real danger for us in all of this?

The answer doesn't lie in pushing for new laws but its too late in Victoria because there is already a promise of new harder laws and what ever the consequences for registered breeders those who have backed a call for harder tougher laws will have to account for the role they played in their own demise. Time will tell but there is nothing in history or in any other country of the world which would make a case to say introducing more laws is going to solve the problem.

[Steve]

so wheres the bit that says we are going to be treated the same as a puppy factory under the same laws, this is the connection im looking for. not bits about puppy farms. :p

It is the definition that is the crux. The definition of a puppy farm could be any breeding establishment.

Maybe you are saying it more clearly than me - But how come they don't get it?

Is it the way I hold my mouth?

[~Anne~]

so wheres the bit that says we are going to be treated the same as a puppy factory under the same laws, this is the connection im looking for. not bits about puppy farms. :p

It is the definition that is the crux. The definition of a puppy farm could be any breeding establishment.

Maybe you are saying it more clearly than me - But how come they don't get it?

Is it the way I hold my mouth?

[oakway]

Toydog it doesn't matter what they call themselves they have one objective and that is to get rid of dog breeders . Full Stop

[HugUrPup]

:p Anne is my forum interpreter too.

[toy dog]

Again

I sat at the roundatable conference and Im promising you they are after anyone who breeds dogs in sub standard conditions. What is sub standard conditions? Conditions which don't comply with local environment laws and mandatory codes.

This is the exact wording.

1.1 A puppy farm (also known as a puppy factory or puppy mill) is defined as an intensive dog breeding facility that is operated under inadequate conditions that fail to meet the dogs’ psychological, behavioural, social and/or physiological needs. Puppy farms are usually large-scale commercial operations, but inadequate conditions may also exist in small volume breeding establishments which may or may not be run for profit.

Do you really think that any laws will only apply to large scale puppy farmers? Where's the magic number ? At what point do you become large scale? How many and is it O.K. to breed in substandard conditions if you only own a couple?

The whole point to this thread was to show you that you are already treated at law the same way a puppy framer is the minute you own more than 2 dogs because of environment and planning laws.

they are already there - they already treat you the same way they just haven't enforced it so for decades you have been able to do what you do without needing all the same things they do to breed a dog. You have had it easy yet you call for laws to make it easier to find out you are not doing the right thing and be policed by those who see you as just as much of a problem as a commercial breeder.

You are a dog breeder just as they are and that means you come under the same laws whether you think you should or not. Your shire says that happens when you own more than 2 dogs.

i spose when you really look at it if you say you are ethical and responsible how does anyone know you are? what determines this, anyone can say this adn make it seem true huh. so because a registered breeder has dogs and is not motivated by profit like a farm is, they are not going to survive and the only ones that can comply to all this are the large farms there for money - tehy have the money to comply, so they are going to be the winners in all this in the end.

what my mum is worried about is, soon you will not see a single pedigree dog all you will see are these i am sorry MONGREL dogs.

talked to a guy in DPI we had a long conversation about these puppy farms i think DPI HQ is in Wellington shire - pretty sure it is. they told me they could write laws to give councils more power to charge what they want to these farms for their permit, like say 30,000 and upwards, but from what i heard that wouldn't even make a dent in their profit margins anyway they will still be laughing all the way to the bank. he said they could make them comply with so much stuff (large breeding establishments) that a few will give up like animal welfare stuff about coats and genetics and what i talked to him about, he goes any solutions and i said i got plenty, he goes well write to us and we'll take a look, i dont' know if he was genuine or not. but i certainly will when i get a chance. also to the premier and opposition about the genetic side and a different approach to welfare issues that the ALV and oscarlaw people are saying i have my own take.

i got told that DPI has alot of power over councils as to how they apply the law and how councils respond and give alot of direction to councils in Victoria. he said that animal groups have had alot of input into the welfare issues in the new laws of how we should keep these breeding establishments. i said we do'nt need them to keep them nice and make sure thousands of dogs are kept nice we have enough dogs in shelters looking for homes, all that we need is for these large farms to go away and stop overbreeding thousands of pups. he goes soem of them get exported some of them go to petshops i said yeah.

he said i only get a dog from a breeder, i thought here we go, i was ready for him to say a puppy farm from this region, what sort of breeder i asked, a dogsvic breeder. i was pleasantly surprised. so he is well aware of us also as is all of them but i dont' think they understand the reasons why some reg breeders do have dogs and own and breed them and show them they jsut don't understand that side of it. you are right.

what happens if these breeders are allowed to go ahead and people jsut can't get a pedigree dog anymore becaues they've eliminated us all with legislation, what will happen then? will they then go ooops or would they care? there are followers of certain pedigree breeds some people don't want to get a cross. what would happen then i wonder?

ithink yeah as mortonplace said, stick together, in one place, tackle all this together thats the best chance we got. i love reading legislation, love writing and i'd love to do something, tell us what we need to do and we will do it. write to government yep will do it. but it needs to come from a whole heap of us, not just one sole person.

Edited October 15, 2010 by toy dog

[~Anne~]

Toydog it doesn't matter what they call themselves they have one objective and that is to get rid of dog breeders . Full Stop

Who is 'they'? I don't beleive this theory at nay rate, regardless of who 'they' are... unless 'they' are radical extremists in general.

I find it more plausible to believe that when people call for change, they don't think it through and look ahead. They only see their small parametre of what they feel needs changing. The impact of this shortsightedness and blinkered view is that the net is cast far wider than intended.

I also feel it is our gross entanglement of legislation, and those that create and manage it, and laws that compunds the issues.

[toy dog]

HAVE YOU GOT THE CONNECTION YET?

From the animal liberation website.

HOW YOU CAN HELP

Please help us push for a ban on puppy factories by sending a letter to Premier John Brumby via the oscarslaw.org website.

14 September 2010

ALV's openrescue team has been busy documenting horrific conditions on Victorian puppy farms over the past 18 months. From one end of the state to the other it's clear the situation is dire for dogs, who are locked up for years and used as breeding machines. Once they are no longer economically viable they get killed. One puppy farmer told us "Yeah, they get a bullet to the head!".

BAN PUPPY FARMS RALLY!

When: Sunday, Sep 19, 12pm – 2pm

Where: Steps of Parliament House, Melbourne.

Skye Brown is an animal rights activist who has been a member of ALV's Openrescue team since 2008. In the last 2 years he has recorded video footage at many Victorian puppy farms.

"Before I set foot on a puppy farm, I really didn't know where the puppies in Australian pet shops came from. It's easy to pretend that the puppies staring out through the glass originally came from caring and loving environments. Now I know first hand that these pups and their parents have experienced pure hell. These puppies are mass produced in factories right here in Victoria. You wouldn't believe how many of these puppy factories are hidden away from view, operating with the silent approval from government and local council.

What is clear throughout all of the puppy factories I have witnessed, is that these animals are treated as mere commodities. They are held in what can only be described as prisons. Puppies are taken away from their mothers when they are weeks old - never to be seen again. Meanwhile the mothers are forced to continue on as breeding machines, they are then killed when their bodies can no longer cope with the continual breeding.

ALV is currently working in conjunction with Oscar's Law to investigate the ongoing abuse of dogs in puppy farms. We all need to keep exposing these horrific puppy factories and putting pressure on the government to end this cruel profiteering."

Visit oscarslaw.org for more information.

Please contact Premier John Brumby and let him know that puppy factories must stop: [email protected]

so wheres the bit that says we are going to be treated the same as a puppy factory under the same laws, this is the connection im looking for. not bits about puppy farms. :p

so are you saying that we shouldn't say anything about this movement to rat out puppy farms because this is directly related to us? or will be down the track, tht is just so crap, where is the justice in this?

so we should turn a blind eye to these puppy factories in our backyards. even though i've been told numerous times that reg breeders aren't being targetted are these people lying?

who is lying who is tellng the truth. meanwhile these factories with these arseholes (sorry but thats what they are are allowed to continue) continue to churn out these pups.

i will never turn a blind eye to that. the wellington shire are getting flooded with letters because of oscarslaw people and i can't say i feel sorry for them, as a response they have taken a few to court over the years. each time they have been thrown out of court in the farmers favour. because they say of inadequate laws.

Toy dogs part of the problem is that I don't think anyone is lying. I think everyone does really think they are telling the truth.Oscars law really isn't targeting ethical responsible breeders but over and over again you are told that just because that isn't the intention that doesn't mean that it wont happen and how much more do you need to see there is a real danger for us in all of this?

The answer doesn't lie in pushing for new laws but its too late in Victoria because there is already a promise of new harder laws and what ever the consequences for registered breeders those who have backed a call for harder tougher laws will have to account for the role they played in their own demise. Time will tell but there is nothing in history or in any other country of the world which would make a case to say introducing more laws is going to solve the problem.

you are preaching to the already converted! i know that we don't need any more stupid laws to the point where we will be saying we aren't a free country anymore, i agree with this 100% so then how does banning petshop sales of cats and dogs relate to us then? a pure ban i am talking about not with anything tacked on.

you are right you said so far no one is moving to do this because you know why, there is great pressure from a multi-million dollar industry not to ban it , money speaks louder than common sense and thats all they will listen to, money talks. if this happened at least it would curb some farms who rely on petshop sales to survive, it was estimated that 95% of their income comes from petshop sales. i have also heard this on the grape vine many times over the years as i say i grew up in the area with the most farms. because of all this bad publicity lately sales have actually plumuted in puppy farms.

[toy dog]

Toydog it doesn't matter what they call themselves they have one objective and that is to get rid of dog breeders . Full Stop

Who is 'they'? I don't beleive this theory at nay rate, regardless of who 'they' are... unless 'they' are radical extremists in general.

I find it more plausible to believe that when people call for change, they don't think it through and look ahead. They only see their small parametre of what they feel needs changing. The impact of this shortsightedness and blinkered view is that the net is cast far wider than intended.

I also feel it is our gross entanglement of legislation, and those that create and manage it, and laws that compunds the issues.

i think it means "they" the animal groups calling for bans. or they could mean RSPCA, the stuff they have on their website about pedigree dogs i could very well believe it too. its just total crap i still think that half of what RSPCA are saying in their website is from no one ever stepping into the dogworld adn taking a look around and see what goes on. it sounds like RSPCA are quoting direct from PDE.

[Steve]

Toydog it doesn't matter what they call themselves they have one objective and that is to get rid of dog breeders . Full Stop

Who is 'they'? I don't beleive this theory at nay rate, regardless of who 'they' are... unless 'they' are radical extremists in general.

I find it more plausible to believe that when people call for change, they don't think it through and look ahead. They only see their small parametre of what they feel needs changing. The impact of this shortsightedness and blinkered view is that the net is cast far wider than intended.

I also feel it is our gross entanglement of legislation, and those that create and manage it, and laws that compunds the issues.

In the main I agree with you and I think mostly thats what is going on. However, SOME such as animal lib and PETA most definitely have an agenda to stop all breeding. Its a bit silly to assume that some "theys" are not pulling some strings in this lot.

Just as some also have an agenda to stop people from breeding first cross designer dogs so too do some have a desire to stop purebred breeders from breeding.

Problem among breeders is that everyone thinks they are the best and they are special and that anything that may happen to them [ anyone other than them] is a good thing and because they are so much more ethical and fan bloody tastic they can afford to demand higher permit prices, laws regarding genetic conditions blah blah blah and anything else they can think of to stick it to them and shut them down. In fact they end up just sticking it to themselves. :p