Help New Puppy, Dont Know What Im Doing, Advice Needed

[angelnkids]

Hi tracy crap happens in life we make mistakes we move on. you have a pup u love and thats what matters in the end. did u call rockingham dog club about there puppy preschool?

might meet you in there if you go, im starting my boy in the obedience so if you join once your little lad has had his needles we would be in the same group.

not yet, im gonna start him there when hes a bit older, if i can, only problem is with 2 children, and my partner workin long hours sometimes and no one to help with the kids, its hard to get anywhere in the evenings for any type of classes with a dog, unless i can take my kids (which is unlikely), if they at weekend thou that wont be a problem

hopefully will see u there one day

tracy

[espinay2]

Look into puppy preschool/socialisation at your local vet clinics. A lot of the time they will let you bring your children too. A lot of 'puppy kindergarten' classes will let you have your children along so they can learn too (providing you can keep control of them and the puppy as well!) so it doesn't hurt to ask when you are enquiring.

[Simply Grand]

I'm not trying to push cross breeds or bash purebreds. I own one of each and both are lovely, healthy, have beautiful temperaments and I love them dearly. I owned my cross breed first and I think I put as much time, love, effort, money and thought into looking after my crossbreed as many purebred owners.

I guess just think it's a bit unhelpful to be spouting messages that imply that it serves someone right because they got a cross breed after they've already got the dog. There are many, many people who only start learning about dogs after they get their dog - I'm one of these people. What was helpful to me was people who were willing to give me advice since I already had the mutt ...

Yes, for my second dog we opted to go for a pure bred dog whose breeder was recommended by the appropriate registration authority because there was a lot of sense in getting a dog that had a more predictable temperament but that was because there were enough owners of pure bred dogs here who were kind, helpful and instructive ...

Go KTB! Excellent post, I think you've explained really well how many of us who are new to the world of dogs but love them and want the best for them feel.

Like you, I'm so grateful for the advice and support I've received from people willing to take the time to pass on knowledge since I got my muttly... I know there are a number of passionate purebred owners/breeders/advocates on DOL who are willing to accept the value of any dog and support owners in helping their dog be the best it can be, whatever its heritage.

Like KTB, my next dog will be a purebred (or maaayybee rescue) because I have learnt the benefits of pure-breds and the disadvantages, to both dog and owner, of many cross-breeds. But this is new knowledge, I had no idea until I came across DOL, after I already had the pup.

I mean where else can i go for advice, back to the pet shop eh ? i dont think so, thats why i am comin on here to get good advce

thank

tracy

Tracy, don't give up on DOL. You're right, it really is a fantastic source of information. I've not come across another forum that gives such excellent advice from such experienced dog-lovers. Many, many members will be happy to give their time to help you out with your new family member! Take on all the advice you get and figure out what works for you, your family and your pup.

[Lollipup]

maxnkids: you've got a lot of very useful advice in this post and I hope that it's helpful to you and that you continue to ask for advice when you need it and aren't deterred ...

Once upon a time there was a site for cross breed owners....unfortunately decent advice was not very forthcoming...reason being - pure breed breeders are the ones doing all the work, spending all the money and paying for the research that tells everyone else that cross bred dogs ARE NOT as fit, healthy and functional as pure breeds...Sorry I'll get off my soap box now...

This is a a rather sweeping blanket statement ... also somewhat unhelpful given the OP's original request for advice ...

1. DOL is set up as a forum for owners of pure bred dogs (as recognised by the ANKC), but discussion of non-ANKC recognised dogs is permitted so long as posters do not breach forum rules. I note that in your comment you've referred to a forum for cross-breed owners and then you've said that decent advice wasn't forthcoming because pure breed breeders are the ones putting in the hard yards. While a lot of valuable information here comes from conscientious and reputable breeders - a lot of good advice on this forum also comes from conscientious and responsible owners and in those circumstances, the dog's pedigree (or lack thereof) shouldn't really be a factor.

2. I'd agree that cross bred dogs raised in puppy farms in appalling conditions can be health-compromised (but that goes for any dog raised in a puppy farm). I'd also agree that indiscriminate backyard breeding can also lead to sub-optimal health in dogs but I don't think it's necessarily the case that cross-bred dogs are always or even mostly less healthy than their pedigree counterparts. A conversation with the various people working at my local veterinary office (all of whom are very experienced) has confirmed that while there is no 100% rule - there are many healthy cross breeds out there. I'm not going to talk about statistics comparing pure to non-pure, I just want to say that there are a lot of healthy cross breeds out there who are functional, fit and healthy. When I was having a discussion with the Working Kelpie Council, they mentioned that the border collie/Kelpie cross was a relatively popular cross that was quite successful for the function for which it was crossbred. I'm not endorsing the crossbreeding, I'm just disputing that crossbreeds are necessarily not as fit, healthy and "functional".

3. A "purebred" label alone does not equal quality of dog. You've just referred to a "pure bred breeder" and all this means is that the breeder breeds pure breeds purebred dogs, not that they are an ethical and conscientious and carry out basic testing. I'm not even going to say 'registered' because in my view, registration doesn't mean anything except that the breeder satisfied registration requirements. A purebred breeder could be a puppy farmer or a BYB so long as they're breeding purebred dogs. Nonetheless, I'm assuming by the context of your remark that you are referring to a reputable and ethical breeder. Even in those cases, while the likelihood of the dog being "fit, healthy and functional" should be higher, there can be no guarantees. Just look at this forum - the majority of dogs here will be pure bred dogs but there are the full range of health/temperament issues. Some of these can be chalked up to environment or owner, but some of these come down to the dogs themselves. At the end of the day, dogs are animals and not robots or clones so there is still an element of chance even though the odds should be slightly better if the breeder is ethical and conscientious.

I'm not trying to push cross breeds or bash purebreds. I own one of each and both are lovely, healthy, have beautiful temperaments and I love them dearly. I owned my cross breed first and I think I put as much time, love, effort, money and thought into looking after my crossbreed as many purebred owners.

I guess just think it's a bit unhelpful to be spouting messages that imply that it serves someone right because they got a cross breed after they've already got the dog. There are many, many people who only start learning about dogs after they get their dog - I'm one of these people. What was helpful to me was people who were willing to give me advice since I already had the mutt ...

Yes, for my second dog we opted to go for a pure bred dog whose breeder was recommended by the appropriate registration authority because there was a lot of sense in getting a dog that had a more predictable temperament but that was because there were enough owners of pure bred dogs here who were kind, helpful and instructive ...

Also, I know that this is the internet, this is a public form and I'm not the DOL police and that people can say whatever they like and people can be as rude as they like (given the faux-bravery given by Net Anonymity) and that people should consider themselves fair game when they post here BUT as this is an internet forum and I'm also entitled to express my view, I will say that I just wish (and yes this is just a vain wish with no mandatory force behind it) that people could be nicer and kinder when people are genuinely looking for advice ...

Some threads are fair game for debate but other threads are a genuine plea for help. If you're not feeling helpful and you think that the person is unworthy of your time and knowledge because of the sort of dog they own, then it's just as easy to skip the thread and spend your time elsewhere rather than getting a kick in... Leave others to at least try to be helpful.

:D well said! I feel the same! At the end of the day we should remember we are all here for the love of dogs

[sheena]

maxnkids: you've got a lot of very useful advice in this post and I hope that it's helpful to you and that you continue to ask for advice when you need it and aren't deterred ...

Once upon a time there was a site for cross breed owners....unfortunately decent advice was not very forthcoming...reason being - pure breed breeders are the ones doing all the work, spending all the money and paying for the research that tells everyone else that cross bred dogs ARE NOT as fit, healthy and functional as pure breeds...Sorry I'll get off my soap box now...

This is a a rather sweeping blanket statement ... also somewhat unhelpful given the OP's original request for advice ...

1. DOL is set up as a forum for owners of pure bred dogs (as recognised by the ANKC), but discussion of non-ANKC recognised dogs is permitted so long as posters do not breach forum rules. I note that in your comment you've referred to a forum for cross-breed owners and then you've said that decent advice wasn't forthcoming because pure breed breeders are the ones putting in the hard yards. While a lot of valuable information here comes from conscientious and reputable breeders - a lot of good advice on this forum also comes from conscientious and responsible owners and in those circumstances, the dog's pedigree (or lack thereof) shouldn't really be a factor.

2. I'd agree that cross bred dogs raised in puppy farms in appalling conditions can be health-compromised (but that goes for any dog raised in a puppy farm). I'd also agree that indiscriminate backyard breeding can also lead to sub-optimal health in dogs but I don't think it's necessarily the case that cross-bred dogs are always or even mostly less healthy than their pedigree counterparts. A conversation with the various people working at my local veterinary office (all of whom are very experienced) has confirmed that while there is no 100% rule - there are many healthy cross breeds out there. I'm not going to talk about statistics comparing pure to non-pure, I just want to say that there are a lot of healthy cross breeds out there who are functional, fit and healthy. When I was having a discussion with the Working Kelpie Council, they mentioned that the border collie/Kelpie cross was a relatively popular cross that was quite successful for the function for which it was crossbred. I'm not endorsing the crossbreeding, I'm just disputing that crossbreeds are necessarily not as fit, healthy and "functional".

3. A "purebred" label alone does not equal quality of dog. You've just referred to a "pure bred breeder" and all this means is that the breeder breeds pure breeds purebred dogs, not that they are an ethical and conscientious and carry out basic testing. I'm not even going to say 'registered' because in my view, registration doesn't mean anything except that the breeder satisfied registration requirements. A purebred breeder could be a puppy farmer or a BYB so long as they're breeding purebred dogs. Nonetheless, I'm assuming by the context of your remark that you are referring to a reputable and ethical breeder. Even in those cases, while the likelihood of the dog being "fit, healthy and functional" should be higher, there can be no guarantees. Just look at this forum - the majority of dogs here will be pure bred dogs but there are the full range of health/temperament issues. Some of these can be chalked up to environment or owner, but some of these come down to the dogs themselves. At the end of the day, dogs are animals and not robots or clones so there is still an element of chance even though the odds should be slightly better if the breeder is ethical and conscientious.

I'm not trying to push cross breeds or bash purebreds. I own one of each and both are lovely, healthy, have beautiful temperaments and I love them dearly. I owned my cross breed first and I think I put as much time, love, effort, money and thought into looking after my crossbreed as many purebred owners.

I guess just think it's a bit unhelpful to be spouting messages that imply that it serves someone right because they got a cross breed after they've already got the dog. There are many, many people who only start learning about dogs after they get their dog - I'm one of these people. What was helpful to me was people who were willing to give me advice since I already had the mutt ...

Yes, for my second dog we opted to go for a pure bred dog whose breeder was recommended by the appropriate registration authority because there was a lot of sense in getting a dog that had a more predictable temperament but that was because there were enough owners of pure bred dogs here who were kind, helpful and instructive ...

Also, I know that this is the internet, this is a public form and I'm not the DOL police and that people can say whatever they like and people can be as rude as they like (given the faux-bravery given by Net Anonymity) and that people should consider themselves fair game when they post here BUT as this is an internet forum and I'm also entitled to express my view, I will say that I just wish (and yes this is just a vain wish with no mandatory force behind it) that people could be nicer and kinder when people are genuinely looking for advice ...

Some threads are fair game for debate but other threads are a genuine plea for help. If you're not feeling helpful and you think that the person is unworthy of your time and knowledge because of the sort of dog they own, then it's just as easy to skip the thread and spend your time elsewhere rather than getting a kick in... Leave others to at least try to be helpful.

:D well said! I feel the same! At the end of the day we should remember we are all here for the love of dogs

That goes for me too.....well said Dogs are dogs & we love them all. I do wish though that somehow we could put an end to indiscriminate breeding of any dogs be they pures or crosses, then we wouldn't have so many of them ending up in shelters & having to be put to sleep, not to mention all those born withhereditary problems which will make the rest of their life a misery, not just for the dog but for the owner too.

[poodlefan]

TenilleW:

well said! I feel the same! At the end of the day we should remember we are all here for the love of dogs

And that's the attitude I take UNTIL someone who's been here a while goes and gets another puppy from a BYB or petshop.

Responsible registered breeder or rescue are the only acceptable sources of dogs for more educated dog owners IMO. If you know better and still line the pockets of the puppy farmers or BYBs then don't expect me to be nice about it.

The OP is getting a bucketload of help on this forum but it doesn't hurt to point out that its on a purebred dog forum and from many folk who are strongly opposed to the sale of pups in pet shops. The point has been made and I think we've all moved on.

Until the next puppy buyer like the OP rolls in - and they continue to to do so.

[Max#1]

Poodlefan: Until the next puppy buyer like the OP rolls in - and they continue to to do so.

(sorry I'm hopeless at quoting)

And for each one that rolls in perhaps its another person educated? And as well perhaps their family members, friends, colleagues etc etc? I for one know I'm spreading the word.....

[poodlefan]

Poodlefan: Until the next puppy buyer like the OP rolls in - and they continue to to do so.

(sorry I'm hopeless at quoting)

And for each one that rolls in perhaps its another person educated? And as well perhaps their family members, friends, colleagues etc etc? I for one know I'm spreading the word.....

Yep. And its pointed out to them that they shouldn't be sourcing their pups from puppyfarms or petshops and we move on again. We've had plenty of folk join under those circumstances and they will continue to do so.

But the source of those pups is the elephant in the room and I'm in favour of politely making the point and then getting down to the advice part. Being "nice" about it (ie not mentioining it) doesn't educate anyone. And if they go back to the pet shop for the next one (which has happened by the way) then I"m sorry but that's not on on this forum. In the case, the buyer liked the "convenience" of buying a pup out of the case and didn't see the problem as she was "rescuing" it. :D

The only stupid mistakes you make are the ones you repeat. When it comes to buying a pup then repeat buys from pet shops and puppy farms (purebred or crossbred) are unacceptable for members of this forum IMO.

This shouldn't be about purebred v crossbred. Its about where you get your dog that matters. I'm no more in favour of puppyfarmed purebreds than I am of puppyfarmed DDs.

Edited October 24, 2010 by poodlefan

[koalathebear]

The OP is getting a bucketload of help on this forum but it doesn't hurt to point out that its on a purebred dog forum and from many folk who are strongly opposed to the sale of pups in pet shops. The point has been made and I think we've all moved on.

Hi PF – I don’t have a problem with people educating – that’s the purpose of this forum. My main wish was that people could try to be a bit more polite about it sometimes – I’m not saying that they have to be touchy feely, but people don’t have to be nasty. For instance – even when you’re at your most disapproving you’re still very factual and don’t make personal attacks and digs. I don’t always agree with what you say and sometimes I go “ouch” and cry into my pillow ( ) but I would never dismiss what you say out of hand because you formulate your words in a reasoned and rational manner and I know that you're very experienced with dogs and what you say makes a lot of sense to me.

My experience here has been mostly positive but as someone who has very occasionally been at the receiving end of less than polite comments, I wanted to express my “wish” that people try to be polite. I find it a bit ironic that politeness is considered by many to be whitewashing yet being rude is extolled as being a right of Internet speech. That’s all :D

Edited October 24, 2010 by koalathebear

[poodlefan]

The OP is getting a bucketload of help on this forum but it doesn't hurt to point out that its on a purebred dog forum and from many folk who are strongly opposed to the sale of pups in pet shops. The point has been made and I think we've all moved on.

Hi PF – I don’t have a problem with people educating – that’s the purpose of this forum. My main wish was that people could try to be a bit more polite about it sometimes – I’m not saying that they have to be touchy feely, but people don’t have to be nasty. For instance – even when you’re at your most disapproving you’re still very factual and don’t make personal attacks and digs. I don’t always agree with what you say and sometimes I go “ouch” and cry into my pillow ( ) but I would never dismiss what you say out of hand because you formulate your words in a reasoned and rational manner.

My experience here has been mostly positive but as someone who has very occasionally been at the receiving end of less than polite comments, I wanted to express my “wish” that people try to be polite. I find it a bit ironic that politeness is considered by many to be whitewashing yet being rude is extolled as being a right of Internet speech. That’s all :D

As I said in my previous post KTB, this shouldn't about pure v crossbred dogs and I agree that not everyone knows how and where to buy a pup. I'm not aiming to crucify anyone for buying pups from the wrong sources if they don't know better and anyone who pretends for an instant that all purebred dogs are healthy and well adjusted and that all crossbreds are lesser creatures has rocks in their head.

There are irresponsible breeders selling ALL kinds of dogs - puppyfarmed, petshops, BYBs and ANKC registered. To maximise your chances of getting a healthy pup that's had the optimum start in life I recommend responsible ANKC registered breeders. I created a thread on how to buy a dog from the right breeder too.

[koalathebear]

:D

[poodlefan]

No white flag required KTB. People can be tactless arseholes at times. Its insensitive to suggest that anyone's much loved pet is "flawed" regardless of where they got it and who bred it. Most of the time it will be inaccurate too. That kind of behaviour plays into the stereotype of the ANKC breeder/dog owner as a "dog snob".

But tact isn't a prerequistie for membership here and some folk don't sugar coat their advice.

No excuse for rudeness IMO though. If folk cross that line, hit the report button and Troy will deliver a few roundhouse kicks to settle them down.

Edited October 24, 2010 by poodlefan

[Max#1]

Maybe they should have one of those tagged things at the top of the Puppy Problems list of topics: 'so you just bought your pup home from the pet shop.... READ HERE'.

I can imagine it gets tiring to go over it and over it. And that may be why some people end up sounding a little snide. Can I say this at least - its worth it to go over it again, if it stops another handful of people? I imagine that most people are going to end up here after the even rather than before.

Sorry to get so off topic from the original question.

[Lollipup]

well said! I feel the same! At the end of the day we should remember we are all here for the love of dogs

That goes for me too.....well said Dogs are dogs & we love them all. I do wish though that somehow we could put an end to indiscriminate breeding of any dogs be they pures or crosses, then we wouldn't have so many of them ending up in shelters & having to be put to sleep, not to mention all those born withhereditary problems which will make the rest of their life a misery, not just for the dog but for the owner too.

I agree also. I certainly do not approve of BYBs or pet shops, in fact I am very strongly against it. I was horrified when I found out about puppy mills and when I researched and realised how irresponsible BYBs are. But like many, I already had a dog from an uncertain origin and I love her. I found out through my own research after seeing an advertisement on the issue which lead to further research. But if I was finding out by being told from someone else, I would appreciate kind words that didn't make me feel criticised for something I hadn't learnt yet.

I agree with PF that once people know its wrong, they would be foolish to buy a dog that way again.

ETA: by the time I posted this you guys (PF & KTB) had added the other comments above which pretty much say what I'm getting at in a much better way LOL

Edited October 25, 2010 by Tenille W