Vaccinations And Flea/worm Treatments

[BigPaws]

So I've been doing a bit of research on vaccinations and other chemicals we put into our pets for the sake of preventing certain illnesses and parasites. I have some questions for breeders and would also welcome the opinions of other potential puppy buyers.

What I have gathered so far is as follows:

1) when dogs are on a natural, raw diet fleas and mosquitos are not interested in them so there is no need for flea or heartworm treatments.

2) if dogs are not subjected to chemical intervention, their bodies are able to develop the ability to deal with worms on their own

3) vaccinations do nothing except poison your dog.

4) pups over 12 weeks of age are safe from Parvo

My questions to breeders are:

1) Do you have to vaccinate, worm and flea your pups prior to selling as a condition of being a registered breeder?

2) Would you raise pups on nothing but a raw diet and sell them with the recommendation that they are fed nothing but raw and don't receive any vaccinations, worm or flea treatment?

3) Do you educate your puppy buyers on the dangers of processed pet food?

4) Do you think puppies need to have worm and flea treatments as babies and do you think they should be vaccinated?

My questions to puppy buyers are:

1) Would you buy a puppy from a breeder who hasn't given the pups any vaccinations, worm or flea treatments?

2) Would you be happy with a pup that has gone from mother's milk to raw diet?

3) Would you be prepared to continue for the rest of the dog's life with no vaccinations and feeding a raw diet?

[dancinbcs]

So I've been doing a bit of research on vaccinations and other chemicals we put into our pets for the sake of preventing certain illnesses and parasites. I have some questions for breeders and would also welcome the opinions of other potential puppy buyers.

What I have gathered so far is as follows:

1) when dogs are on a natural, raw diet fleas and mosquitos are not interested in them so there is no need for flea or heartworm treatments.

2) if dogs are not subjected to chemical intervention, their bodies are able to develop the ability to deal with worms on their own

3) vaccinations do nothing except poison your dog.

4) pups over 12 weeks of age are safe from Parvo

Don't know where you got these assumptions from, but they are all false. I have fed a raw natural diet for years and my dogs still need vaccinations, worming, heatworm and flea treatments. Most puppies are born with worms so need worming and all puppies need vaccinations. No completely unvaccinated dog of any age is safe from parvo and any dog in a heartworm area is at risk if not treated.

My questions to breeders are:

1) Do you have to vaccinate, worm and flea your pups prior to selling as a condition of being a registered breeder?

Yes, according to the ANKC code of ethics and in NSW it is State Law.

2) Would you raise pups on nothing but a raw diet and sell them with the recommendation that they are fed nothing but raw and don't receive any vaccinations, worm or flea treatment?

Absolutely not.

3) Do you educate your puppy buyers on the dangers of processed pet food?

Yes

4) Do you think puppies need to have worm and flea treatments as babies and do you think they should be vaccinated?

Yes

[Red Fox]

So I've been doing a bit of research on vaccinations and other chemicals we put into our pets for the sake of preventing certain illnesses and parasites. I have some questions for breeders and would also welcome the opinions of other potential puppy buyers.

What I have gathered so far is as follows:

1) when dogs are on a natural, raw diet fleas and mosquitos are not interested in them so there is no need for flea or heartworm treatments.

2) if dogs are not subjected to chemical intervention, their bodies are able to develop the ability to deal with worms on their own

3) vaccinations do nothing except poison your dog.

4) pups over 12 weeks of age are safe from Parvo

Don't agree with any of this.

1) My dog is on an all natural, raw diet. The mozzies still love him. I'm not sure if there is heartworm in Tas? There certainly is in SA.

2) An unwormed dog with worms won't develop the ability to deal with it, they will just end up ill. Though I see nothing wrong with worming only when needed in older pups/dogs.

3) Disagree, though I am against over-vaccinating I think puppies should be vaccinated with a C3 at least twice.

4) Tell that to those here who have lost puppies to Parvo! Unless the pup has received their vaccs they are NOT safe (and even that's not a guarantee).

My questions to puppy buyers are:

1) Would you buy a puppy from a breeder who hasn't given the pups any vaccinations, worm or flea treatments?

No vaccs? - yes, but it would be on the condition that puppy was vaccinated at 8-10 weeks by my own vet. No worming? No. No flea treatment? Yes (proving pups did not have fleas!)

2) Would you be happy with a pup that has gone from mother's milk to raw diet?

Yes

3) Would you be prepared to continue for the rest of the dog's life with no vaccinations

No, I would want to give puppy vaccs and first booster (then titer ther-after)

and feeding a raw diet?

yes

[tdierikx]

1) when dogs are on a natural, raw diet fleas and mosquitos are not interested in them so there is no need for flea or heartworm treatments.

False

2) if dogs are not subjected to chemical intervention, their bodies are able to develop the ability to deal with worms on their own

False

3) vaccinations do nothing except poison your dog.

False

4) pups over 12 weeks of age are safe from Parvo

False

1) Would you buy a puppy from a breeder who hasn't given the pups any vaccinations, worm or flea treatments?

No

2) Would you be happy with a pup that has gone from mother's milk to raw diet?

Fine by me

3) Would you be prepared to continue for the rest of the dog's life with no vaccinations and feeding a raw diet?

No

T.

[Staranais]

1) Would you buy a puppy from a breeder who hasn't given the pups any vaccinations, worm or flea treatments?

Only happy with not having flea treatments if the pup does not have fleas. I only deflea my animals when they have fleas.

I would always, always vaccinate a pup with the puppy course & one year booster of C3, so if the breeder didn't choose to vaccinate, I would do so when I received the pup. Parvo is not fun. And dogs over 12 weeks old are certainly not immune to it.

Virtually all pups are born with roundworms, so if the breeder doesn't worm the pup, the pup will almost certainly have worms.

2) Would you be happy with a pup that has gone from mother's milk to raw diet?

Yes, so long as the breeder knows what they're doing.

3) Would you be prepared to continue for the rest of the dog's life with no vaccinations and feeding a raw diet?

No vaccinations? After the one year booster, it depends, but probably not. How often I would vacc my dog, and what I would vacc her with, depends on lots of factors - what the prevalence of Parvo is in my neighbourhood & at my clinic, if the dog needs a kennel cough vacc to get boarded when I am away, if my dog ever has an adverse reaction to a vaccine, if my dog decides that she hates doing titres more than injections (she hates having blood taken), where I travel with the dog, etc. It's not as simple as "vaccines good" or "vaccines bad".

Raw, probably not. I feed a combination of raw & kibbled. Although I would always feed a dog some raw, there have been periods of my life when raw alone was too inconvenient or too expensive so the dog has had to have a combo. She does very well on it.

Edited to add: I'm not sure where you've been doing your research, but:

1) when dogs are on a natural, raw diet fleas and mosquitos are not interested in them so there is no need for flea or heartworm treatments - not true.

2) if dogs are not subjected to chemical intervention, their bodies are able to develop the ability to deal with worms on their own - not true.

3) vaccinations do nothing except poison your dog - not true.

4) pups over 12 weeks of age are safe from Parvo - not true.

Edited October 13, 2010 by Staranais

[Incavale]

IMO this 'research' is about as credible as the research on 'global warming'

[WreckitWhippet]

1) Do you have to vaccinate, worm and flea your pups prior to selling as a condition of being a registered breeder?

Vaccinate yes at 8 weeks with a C3

they are wormed on a regular basis from two weeks

we have no need to fle/tick treat any of our puppies or adults as we have neither in our yard

2) Would you raise pups on nothing but a raw diet and sell them with the recommendation that they are fed nothing but raw and don't receive any vaccinations, worm or flea treatment?

Yes to the raw diet, it would be my preference in the perfect world. A couple of the current pups are going to live with owners who feed raw. I have introduced them to dry, as there are four pups who will be fed dry as part of their diet.

I would not be happy if the pups were not wormed or have their second vacc and one booster after 15 months.

Treat for fleas only if you have fleas, it's common sense

3) Do you educate your puppy buyers on the dangers of processed pet food?

Yes and encourage them if they want to feed dry, to feed one that is low or has no grains, preservative, colours, flavours, gluten and the list goes on. I encourage them to choose a dry that has meat listed as it's first ingredient

4) Do you think puppies need to have worm and flea treatments as babies and do you think they should be vaccinated?

Yes to worming, no to flea treatment unless they have fleas and yes to at least one vaccination ( depending on which protocol you follow as a breeder )

1) Would you buy a puppy from a breeder who hasn't given the pups any vaccinations, worm or flea treatments?

Puppies from ANKC breeders must be vaccinated, so no I wouldn't be happy buying one with no vacc. My preference is for a pup that has been vaccinated 8 weeks or later and I'm prepared to wait the extra time to get what I want.

I'd expect they have been treated for worms

I'd prefer that pups have had no exposure to ivermectin, moxidectin or other chemical nasties and if they have required treatment for fleas , that it's the least amount of any chemical possible. I would not buy from someone who slaps on a chemical as a preventative and uses that as a selling point for their puppies

2) Would you be happy with a pup that has gone from mother's milk to raw diet?

Hell yeah and in my ideal world, that's what would happen for every pup. My preference is for the pups to be left with their mother as long as possible and to be weaned when they are ready. There seems to a rush these days to wean and it's like a competition for some breeders, to see who can get them on solids the quickest.

3) Would you be prepared to continue for the rest of the dog's life with no vaccinations and feeding a raw diet?

Once they have had a booster after 15 months, I'd be quite happy never to vaccinate again and very happy to feed raw

Edited October 13, 2010 by ReadySetGo

[Steve]

1) when dogs are on a natural, raw diet fleas and mosquitos are not interested in them so there is no need for flea or heartworm treatments.

Sometimes - but its not as simple as just saying a natural, raw diet.You can feed some things which make them less tassty to mozzies and fleas and you can include other natural management things to reduce the risk but the fact is you still need to be vigilant and ensure that the other sik factors are reduced.

I dont believe that people should do things to stop fleas until they know they need to. Ive never had a dog with fleas in 20 years so why would I put chemicals into my dogs to prevent them? However, if someone lives in an area where this is a problem they would need to take action including ensuring their dog's immune system is healthy. Learn the life cycle of the heart worm and consider the risks for your dog based on where you live and whether the dog is really at risk or not.

If it is at risk learn what you can do instead of adding chemicals if you can avoid it but if there is any risk based on your geography and life style its not worth taking the risk and doing nothing.Not all chemicals are equal so you need to do what you have been doing- research but take it a bit further than you have so far.

2) if dogs are not subjected to chemical intervention, their bodies are able to develop the ability to deal with worms on their own.

Sometimes but just dealing with them isnt necessarily the best thing for them. Again learn the life cycle of the worms and what worms your dog based on what it may be exposed to is at risk. of having or contracting.

In the case of round worm and hook worm you wouldnt know whether your bitch has the lavae in her uterus which crosses the placenta when she is 6 weeks pregnant and infects her puppies and her milk.You can never justify the risk of not assuming your puppies have worms because it strips their immune system very quickly.

You can learn how to determine whether your dog has worms and treat them if they do rather than treat them in case if you want to cut down the chemical exposure but you cant just assume without a check system. Not all chemicals are equal so you need to learn the difference between drugs and their action to determine which ones you think are best to treat your dogs if you need to.

There are valid scientific argumenst against worming dogs just in case but again its not that simple.

3) vaccinations do nothing except poison your dog.

Vaccinations give your dog anti bodies - and if they are exposed to those deseases without having those anti bodies they die.

The chances that a dog can go through its life without being exposed to parvo are 100 to 1 - its endemic - that means its everywhere and that means in your yard and in your carpet and on people's shoes as they enter your property etc. Over vaccination does nothing except poison your dog but its not that simple and you need to consider the issues which affect canine immunology and when you should and should not vaccinate.

4) pups over 12 weeks of age are safe from Parvo.

Pups over 12 weeks are not safe from Parvo unless they have been vaccinated. Much depends on their Mum's immune status and her antibody level and again its not that simple.

Education and making the best decisions for your dog based on your own circumstances is a great thing but not everyone is able to conduct the research and follow through with what else is needed to be done to ensure your dog is safe.It really is a case of not enough info and you could make decisions for your dog which would put them at risk when you are trying to do the exact opposite.

You can see some info - think you get it and make a decision only to find you missed a bit .

The fact that you have done what you have so far and begun looking at it all is fantastic but you have only a part of the stuff you need to make informed decisions and know what the risks are in what you decide to do.

Stay with it and ask lots of questions but dont make any decisions for your dog whether that be going with or without chemicals or current drug recommendations until you know what the real risks are for either thing and whether you are prepared to go one way or the other based on really knowing what the risk factors are.

My questions to puppy buyers are:

1) Would you buy a puppy from a breeder who hasn't given the pups any vaccinations, worm or flea treatments?

Yes I would but I would require much more information first .

Would I buy a pup that I thought might have parvo when it arrived? No

Would I buy a pup that I knew had a high worm burden? No

Woudl I buy a pup that had fleas ? No.

2) Would you be happy with a pup that has gone from mother's milk to raw diet?

All of my pups go from Mothers Milk to a raw diet and I would prefer to buy a pup that has been raised this way.

3) Would you be prepared to continue for the rest of the dog's life with no vaccinations and feeding a raw diet?

My dogs are not vaccinated after their first birthday and they are fed a raw diet.

[Steve]

My questions to breeders are:

1) Do you have to vaccinate, worm and flea your pups prior to selling as a condition of being a registered breeder?

You have to vaccinate and worm.You cant sell pups with fleas so if you have them you have to do something to get rid of them .

2) Would you raise pups on nothing but a raw diet and sell them with the recommendation that they are fed nothing but raw and don't receive any vaccinations, worm or flea treatment?

Absolutely not.

3) Do you educate your puppy buyers on the dangers of processed pet food?

Yes

4) Do you think puppies need to have worm and flea treatments as babies and do you think they should be vaccinated?

All puppies need to be vaccinated.

[stormie]

So I've been doing a bit of research on vaccinations and other chemicals we put into our pets for the sake of preventing certain illnesses and parasites. I have some questions for breeders and would also welcome the opinions of other potential puppy buyers.

What I have gathered so far is as follows:

1) when dogs are on a natural, raw diet fleas and mosquitos are not interested in them so there is no need for flea or heartworm treatments.

2) if dogs are not subjected to chemical intervention, their bodies are able to develop the ability to deal with worms on their own

3) vaccinations do nothing except poison your dog.

4) pups over 12 weeks of age are safe from Parvo

Sorry, but sprouting information such as this is nothing but irresponsible and dangerous. Perhaps you should speak to members here who have lost puppies from Parvo. Or go visit some clinics who are constantly battling to save the lives of dogs and puppies with Parvo.

My questions to puppy buyers are:

1) Would you buy a puppy from a breeder who hasn't given the pups any vaccinations, worm or flea treatments?

Absolutely not. Flea treatment I'm not as fussed about if they don't have fleas, but no vaccine? That's just asking for a sick/dead puppy.

2) Would you be happy with a pup that has gone from mother's milk to raw diet?

So long as the breeder knew what they were doing and understood the importance of calcium/phosphorus ratios and I was satisfied they had taken all this into consideration, then maybe. A breed such as mine? Not sure. Again, if the breeder knew 100% what they were doing, and not just throwing them meat and bones here and there, then maybe.

3) Would you be prepared to continue for the rest of the dog's life with no vaccinations and feeding a raw diet?

I will NEVER not vaccinate a dog at all. My dogs will always have their puppy shots as this is where they get anti bodies from. Without them, they are wide open to disease.

Yes, I would continue to feed a raw diet IF IT"S APPROPRIATE for the dog. Not all dogs do well on a raw diet and I prefer with my Giant breeds, to raise them on a good quality dry to ensure they're getting the correct ratios and levels of things, for slow, correct growth. After this, is raw is appropriate, then yes.

[BigPaws]

Thanks for the responses.

Sorry, but sprouting information such as this is nothing but irresponsible and dangerous. Perhaps you should speak to members here who have lost puppies from Parvo. Or go visit some clinics who are constantly battling to save the lives of dogs and puppies with Parvo.

Should I have just believed what I read then instead of looking into it further? I'm quite aware of what Parvo is and how nasty it is so I don't need to hear everyone's stories and visit sick puppies.

Again, thanks to those who have given informative responses, especially Steve.

[OSoSwift]

What I have gathered so far is as follows:

1) when dogs are on a natural, raw diet fleas and mosquitos are not interested in them so there is no need for flea or heartworm treatments.

2) if dogs are not subjected to chemical intervention, their bodies are able to develop the ability to deal with worms on their own

3) vaccinations do nothing except poison your dog.

4) pups over 12 weeks of age are safe from Parvo

These are all a load of rubbish!

My questions to breeders are:

1) Do you have to vaccinate, worm and flea your pups prior to selling as a condition of being a registered breeder?

YEs it is part of code of ethics and I would never not vaccinate a puppy or treat it for worms. Fleas would be if required. We don't have ticks

2) Would you raise pups on nothing but a raw diet and sell them with the recommendation that they are fed nothing but raw and don't receive any vaccinations, worm or flea treatment?

Puppies would recieve a mix of good quality dry and raw. I would never recommend no vacc's, not be de-wormed. Fleas as necessary

3) Do you educate your puppy buyers on the dangers of processed pet food?

I'd educate them on all types of food and definately the types of dry food to avoid.

4) Do you think puppies need to have worm and flea treatments as babies and do you think they should be vaccinated?

Absolutely 100% and without doubt

My questions to puppy buyers are:

1) Would you buy a puppy from a breeder who hasn't given the pups any vaccinations, worm or flea treatments?

No

2) Would you be happy with a pup that has gone from mother's milk to raw diet?

I would not have a problem, but it would depend on the breed and the diet they have been fed. I have seen some downright appaling supposedly healthy raw diets, and the worst was in a great Dane puppy.

3) Would you be prepared to continue for the rest of the dog's life with no vaccinations and feeding a raw diet?

No as at this point in my life feeding raw only is not appropriate for me. While I do not agree with over vaccination, I do not agree with no vaccinations. I have nursed puppies and dogs dying from Parvo and affected by Hepatitis.

Edited October 13, 2010 by Rommi n Lewis

[AmandaJ]

What I have gathered so far is as follows:

1) when dogs are on a natural, raw diet fleas and mosquitos are not interested in them so there is no need for flea or heartworm treatments.

2) if dogs are not subjected to chemical intervention, their bodies are able to develop the ability to deal with worms on their own

3) vaccinations do nothing except poison your dog.

4) pups over 12 weeks of age are safe from Parvo

All incorrect - however - worm burdon (on a small scale) can assist with an overactive immune system. There are also some types of intestinal worms which are mutualistic for humans (whipworm is used for Crones disease) but I'm not sure about dogs - that is one of my assignment questins for the MDBA Certificate in Parasitology.

My questions to breeders are:

1) Do you have to vaccinate, worm and flea your pups prior to selling as a condition of being a registered breeder? YES

2) Would you raise pups on nothing but a raw diet and sell them with the recommendation that they are fed nothing but raw and don't receive any vaccinations, worm or flea treatment? I prefer not to feed raw because of the risk of Toxoplasma Gondii

3) Do you educate your puppy buyers on the dangers of processed pet food? I prefer to provide balanced information

4) Do you think puppies need to have worm and flea treatments as babies and do you think they should be vaccinated? Yes

My questions to puppy buyers are:

1) Would you buy a puppy from a breeder who hasn't given the pups any vaccinations, worm or flea treatments? No

2) Would you be happy with a pup that has gone from mother's milk to raw diet? Yes

3) Would you be prepared to continue for the rest of the dog's life with no vaccinations and feeding a raw diet? NO

[aussielover]

So I've been doing a bit of research on vaccinations and other chemicals we put into our pets for the sake of preventing certain illnesses and parasites. I have some questions for breeders and would also welcome the opinions of other potential puppy buyers.

What I have gathered so far is as follows:

1) when dogs are on a natural, raw diet fleas and mosquitos are not interested in them so there is no need for flea or heartworm treatments.

???? Never every heard of this before and heartwom prevention is very important it literally may only take one mosqiuto to infect your dog

2) if dogs are not subjected to chemical intervention, their bodies are able to develop the ability to deal with worms on their own

No this is not true. a dog will not be able to fight an overwhelming infestation if they are regularly exposed to a source of larvae

3) vaccinations do nothing except poison your dog.

WRONG!!! I'm sorry people who don't vaccinate their kids or pets at all really, really irritate me!!! I'm not going to get on my soapbox though (deep breath in). Boosters are a slightly different story, i would be inclined to titre test before re-vaccination

4) pups over 12 weeks of age are safe from Parvo

a pup may only develop immunity if it has been exposed to parvovirus before, be that an actual infection or a low/inactivated dose of the virus. If the pup comes into contact with parvo before 12 weeks, it is likely to get infected and become ill if no prior vaccinations are given. Adult dog (even ones thta have been vaccinated) still get parvo.

i'm sorry but where did you get his information from?

Its all very inaccurate/bizarre.

My questions to puppy buyers are:

1) Would you buy a puppy from a breeder who hasn't given the pups any vaccinations, worm or flea treatments?

No, perhaps i would be willing to overlook lack of flea treatments if the breeders home was flea-free

2) Would you be happy with a pup that has gone from mother's milk to raw diet?

Yes

3) Would you be prepared to continue for the rest of the dog's life with no vaccinations and feeding a raw diet?

No to no vaccinations, as i said before i would be happy to titre test, also if my dog need to come overseas with me of course i'll be vaccinating for rabies.

Would be happy to feed a raw diet so long as it is of approprite butitional value.