RubyStar Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 I think if I ever do decide to trial I will tell the judge that I'm doing everthing I'd do at training except give her treats - ie not let her get away with being naughty - just because it's a trial and you're not supposed to double signal or correct. New rules state that you can be excused from the ring if you are thought to be training in the ring, so I'm not sure this plan will work out for you. Maybe you should be aiming in training to do everything you'd do in a trial, not the other way around? If you find your dog is being naughty in the ring, you can excuse yourself and not let your dog get away with it that way. Just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 SmoothieGirl if a dog jumped on Poppy in the stays I doubt I would be able to get her back in the ring. So I would be totally pissed off. Nothing to do with me being a nutty DOLer. Agreed. And you don't have to be a trialling DOL addict to take trialling seriously, non-DOL people are serious about their trialling, too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 SmoothieGirl if a dog jumped on Poppy in the stays I doubt I would be able to get her back in the ring. So I would be totally pissed off. Nothing to do with me being a nutty DOLer. Comments like this scare me though as a future competitor. I can't guarantee that my dog won't break and go jump on another, even though she's never done it before in training. She's not a robot... I definitely understand where people are coming from with serial breakers and dogs that are obviously not ready. But sometimes it really is innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedazzledx2 Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Yep and it was SA who put that proposal up in the rules review!! I personally don't agree with it but that's what we've got! The original proposal was to ban it altogether but the way its written it now gives the judge a little latitude but i don't see you getting away with it easily. I think if I ever do decide to trial I will tell the judge that I'm doing everthing I'd do at training except give her treats - ie not let her get away with being naughty - just because it's a trial and you're not supposed to double signal or correct. New rules state that you can be excused from the ring if you are thought to be training in the ring, so I'm not sure this plan will work out for you. Maybe you should be aiming in training to do everything you'd do in a trial, not the other way around? If you find your dog is being naughty in the ring, you can excuse yourself and not let your dog get away with it that way. Just a thought :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 I guess it would definitely pay to have the discussion with the judge up front about your first trial. I already try to get our training done as it would be done for trails - at least from exercise start to exercise complete. And I know I won't be ready for a formal trial until we can do practice ones by the same rules as the actual trials. Ie no treats until we're done etc. That's the trouble - I found with piano practice - if I stopped every time I made a mistake and fixed it up - I'd never make it to the end of the piece. But practicing going all the way through - eventually the flow would work and I'd get to the end ok and be able to cope and continue if I did stuff up during a performance - not that I did many performances. Oh spastic fingers that couldn't span an octave killed off my concert pianist aspirations. I'm not robot like enough yet either - still loads of talking and watching the dog who watches me... Stopping that is going to take some getting used to. Maybe I'll just stick with agility for now - can yell and run as much as I like... The trouble with me - is I've got no idea what is going to happen until I'm in it, and then I want to have all possibities covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 (edited) SmoothieGirl if a dog jumped on Poppy in the stays I doubt I would be able to get her back in the ring. So I would be totally pissed off. Nothing to do with me being a nutty DOLer. Comments like this scare me though as a future competitor. I can't guarantee that my dog won't break and go jump on another, even though she's never done it before in training. She's not a robot... I definitely understand where people are coming from with serial breakers and dogs that are obviously not ready. But sometimes it really is innocent. If your dog broke and interferred with another dog your dog could get hurt. I think it's more about people not doing the stays if they know their dog isn't solid at them. Edited October 16, 2010 by sas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothieGirl Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 SmoothieGirl if a dog jumped on Poppy in the stays I doubt I would be able to get her back in the ring. So I would be totally pissed off. Nothing to do with me being a nutty DOLer. Comments like this scare me though as a future competitor. I can't guarantee that my dog won't break and go jump on another, even though she's never done it before in training. She's not a robot... I definitely understand where people are coming from with serial breakers and dogs that are obviously not ready. But sometimes it really is innocent. If your dog broke and interferred with another dog your dog could get hurt. I think it's more about people not doing the stays if they know their dog isn't solid at them. Don't get me wrong, I agree, I'd be pissed off too. And I agree we don't have to be on DOL to be into dog sports and definitely not nutty, or if so I'm putting myself in that category too. My point is that no one can ever 100% know that their dog isn't going to do something wrong, the fact is they are not inanimated ojects and will make decisions for themselves, despite our training and new trialers (or is it traillers???) may be made more nervous entering this sport if we don't offer some patience now and then. As wuffles said, sometimes its innocent, but true, serial breakers are clearly not ready. You know, it will be karma against me if Bronte breaks today in her trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 SmoothieGirl if a dog jumped on Poppy in the stays I doubt I would be able to get her back in the ring. So I would be totally pissed off. Nothing to do with me being a nutty DOLer. Comments like this scare me though as a future competitor. I can't guarantee that my dog won't break and go jump on another, even though she's never done it before in training. She's not a robot... I definitely understand where people are coming from with serial breakers and dogs that are obviously not ready. But sometimes it really is innocent. If your dog broke and interferred with another dog your dog could get hurt. I think it's more about people not doing the stays if they know their dog isn't solid at them. I understand that. I don't believe that anyone in CCD can truly be 100% certain that their dog won't break. Mine never has, she has great stays, but I'm not naive enough to think she hasn't got a mind of her own. I've been to obedience trials and have seen some dogs in higher levels have a complete brain fart and do something unpredictable. And as I said, I understand about serial breakers. I just think that the way things are worded in this and other recent threads lumps everyone in the same category, whether it is a one off or all the time. If my dog has solid stays and then one time goes and says hello to the dog next to her, it seems like I'd be hated by many other triallers. I don't think that's the way it should work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 SmoothieGirl if a dog jumped on Poppy in the stays I doubt I would be able to get her back in the ring. So I would be totally pissed off. Nothing to do with me being a nutty DOLer. Comments like this scare me though as a future competitor. I can't guarantee that my dog won't break and go jump on another, even though she's never done it before in training. She's not a robot... I definitely understand where people are coming from with serial breakers and dogs that are obviously not ready. But sometimes it really is innocent. Accidents happen wuffles. Kinta broke her stay at the ROYAL to socialise with another dog - I was mortified!!!! she's NEVER done that before! I think though that you need to be aware that this might happen and train for it, whereas some people will put their dog in again and again (as you said, serial breakers) or have just NOT trained stays, expecting their dog to stay put.... then they come over and posture/ parade all around your dog etc, which is extremely stressful. You definitely can't train for every situation, but having your dog as ready as you can get them I think is the best you can do and all anyone would expect :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 My kids do stays while the puppy walks around them trying to engage them in play and wondering why they wont get up and chase him. I had a dog who would never move during stays (I would bet my house on her not moving), but I couldn't guarantee that if a dog got up and came over to her that she wouldn't attack them. I had a fairly firm set of criteria for doing stays with her, unless she got 194 or better and that I could guarantee that thedogs next to her was rock solid, I wouldn't do them. At one of her last trials (last years state champs) the GSD next to her got up and went and sat right next to Blaize - we have video that both dogs ignored each other - whew. Stays I hate them!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Do you ask the people that were next to you if their dogs were rock solid Ptolomy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 No I didn't ask as by the time I had my problem we were out of novice and into open, so I had a pretty good idea on who I was happy to be next to and who I wasn't. Do you ask the people that were next to you if their dogs were rock solid Ptolomy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zug Zug Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 (edited) I'm not sure if the changes to the rules in CCD will change the outcome, in terms of poor heeling evident in the ring, but the dogs still getting through regardless. It just means the stays are further away. I think this is an odd change and probably not really that good a thing but oh well. I think CCD is as much about giving people a chance to try the sport, before they get so bored with training that they just drop out of it altogether. While I can definitely see what people are talking about with dogs getting through with questionable skills (and then getting a shock in Novice), having recently passed Novice and finding it hard to get my out of sight stays together for Open, I don't see this as different to the jump in skills between other classes. There should be different (higher) standards at higher levels. I thought the gap from CCD to CD was OK. I didn't find it easy to pass CCD with my first dog, I can tell you! But having said all that I don't see it as a huge deal. A few more metres on the stay will make a small difference, but probably not a big difference. ETA - just noticed the higher pass mark as well. OK that will make a bigger difference. I think that's harsh for a beginner's class. Edited October 17, 2010 by Zug Zug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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