Agility

[megan_]

Firstly, I will start off with a big disclaimer: I know that I'm not anywhere near being ready to trial.

I am, however, starting to think that this is something I'd be interested in. We have only been training for less that 3 months but I think my boy has a knack for it and absolutely loves agility. We have been doing mock runs off lead and our instructor said that he is very talented and made the off-handed comment that he is almost ready to trial and that the run we had completed was at intermediate level. I hadn't even thought about it up until then.

I know we have a long way to go, but I'm confident that he'll get there (far more quickly than I will).

I was wondering how long people trained for before trailling? What made you think that you were ready to trial? Did you wait until you "knew" you'd pass, or until you knew you had enough focus so that your dog didn't run off etc? How well did that first trial go?

[RallyValley]

Firstly, I will start off with a big disclaimer: I know that I'm not anywhere near being ready to trial.

I am, however, starting to think that this is something I'd be interested in. We have only been training for less that 3 months but I think my boy has a knack for it and absolutely loves agility. We have been doing mock runs off lead and our instructor said that he is very talented and made the off-handed comment that he is almost ready to trial and that the run we had completed was at intermediate level. I hadn't even thought about it up until then.

I know we have a long way to go, but I'm confident that he'll get there (far more quickly than I will).

I was wondering how long people trained for before trailling? What made you think that you were ready to trial? Did you wait until you "knew" you'd pass, or until you knew you had enough focus so that your dog didn't run off etc? How well did that first trial go?

Hi megan,

I had a post almost the exact same as this 12 months ago! (Except my boy had been in training for a year, 6 months on the flat and 6 over obstacles)

When I get home I can post a youtube link of my first trial, it was pretty awful and was in march this year, so he had been going to agility training for 9 months on obstacles.

My best advice is to go and steward at a trial and look at the level expected, if you think thats doable then take your dog to a trial and go over a practice jump or ask for some focus near the ring (but not in peoples way) and see how he copes with trial conditions.

I think ADAA is apprently a good way to go for beginners too!

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Megan

I reckon I will be ready when I can get my dog round a full set of obstacles (ie something of everything in beginner / novice agility) without a lure or a toy (until the end) and without stopping to sniff possum poo or greet friends.

We had it at the start of August and then I went on holidays, and now we're back to doing the first run on lead, and the second run with a treat/lure in my opposite (to the dog) hand. Drat.

I've demoted myself back to beginners.

Ideally I'd like a good "go out" to that obstacle over there - without me leading you the whole way, and a "go on" - ie jump everything in front of you without me leading you the whole way... and good reliable contacts instead of taking a high leap from excitement. And no jumping all over me in the middle of the course either.

We've got good lead outs (except when the possum poo calls), and we like all the obstacles - usually get good contacts - though I don't think she understands what she needs to do, she just does it if I'm in the right place going the right speed. And I'd like her to find her own weave entry... but she's pretty good - loads of room for improvement but we can do them. Without the lure or lead.

PS we've done a mock trial agility and jumping course at another club, and a few practice games and trails at training. Have you done any mock trials? And I have to join SACA first and it's only good from January to January so I can't be bothered paying a full year for a month or so of trials.

Edited October 12, 2010 by Mrs Rusty Bucket

[Kavik]

One thing that is handy is to take your dog to some trials to get them (and you!) used to the environment as it can be quite busy and distracting. You can get your dog to do some focus exercises and some flatwork - circle work, hand touches etc.

Ideally you want your dog to be able to negotiate a Novice type course and be confident in all the obstacles they will see in Novice before you compete. Have some sort of start line stay (if you intend to use one), able to do front crosses.

One thing I wish I'd done before competing is to be able to have my rewards off my person. So to be able to run the course with your reward at the end of the course as you will have to do at a trial.

I had a running off issues with my dog at trials for a while (I think partly due to not working on having rewards off my person). This is now fixed and he has been a good boy for a while (apart from visiting some kids sitting ringside ). Many Novice dogs do run off and leave the ring, so no need to be embarrassed if it does happen, probably has happened to most people at some point.

[Chezy]

I scribed the dusk til dawn , saw some of the novice ppl and thought I am as good as them , so them entered

i am glad I scribed/marshalled b4 i competed , I had a great judge who explained a lot of the ins and oiuts og agility

[kelpiechick]

Many Novice dogs do run off and leave the ring, so no need to be embarrassed if it does happen, probably has happened to most people at some point.

True - but if you think there is any chance that your dog is likely to run off then DO NOT even think about entering a trial. This would be my pet peeve at the moment - the number of Novice dogs that leave the ring on almost every run, often to run into an adjoining ring where another dog is running. Dogs get very hyped up at agility trials and a lot of them don't like strange dogs running up to them and it is an accident waiting to happen.

I'm not talking about the odd occasion where even a more experienced dog might leave the ring for some reason - not that I like that either but yeah, it can happen to anyone unfortunately. But the repeat offenders are a problem that some people don't seem to 'get'.

It is most unusual that an instructor would tell a student that they were almost ready to trial after only 3 months - if starting with an adult dog I would prefer to have a good solid few months minimum of Foundation training before I even attempted some of the obstacles, let alone tried to run a course.

Not to mention teaching the handling skills you need to get around a course either.

On average you lose around 50% of your training when you first start to trial due to nerves, different atmosphere for dog, etc.

I don't care about passing first up but I would want to know that my dog was well and truly ready to handle a Novice course, as Kavik already said - and even an Excellent course.

But you also tend to wait longer and longer with each successive dog before bringing them out.

Good advice to go and have a look at a few trials and see if that helps you have a clearer picture of what you are aiming for.

You can also take your dog and see how he/she reacts in that environment.

[Kavik]

One thing I did to fix our running off problem was to make up a shorter course and end BEFORE he got it into his head to run off. Of course I told the judge this before I started so they knew I was disqualifying myself.

He never ran off to see other dogs (he is not interested in other dogs).

[RallyValley]

My dog has only left the ring once, he ran out the back of the ring and into the bushland to go to the toilet

If i thought he would regularly leave the ring I would not enter at all, I think it's pretty inconsiderate to the other people.

[GoldenGirl85]

For me I just knew Tess was ready, I just didnt know if I was, I was getting a lot of compliments at training, Id been along to a couple of competitions to see how it all works and to see what sort of courses Id be up for and I think that really helped, the beginner courses are really easy, not sure about other groups but ADAA allows you to run your dog as NFC (not for competition) which means you dont have to take the obstacles in order and you are allowed to take a tug on course with you.

The only thing I will say is that if there is a high chance your dog will run off on you, then I wouldnt start competing yet. There is a little dog that runs against Tess, he ALWAYS runs away from his owner, its frustrating for everyone, I honesty think this little dog needs another 6 months to grow up some more before they try and compete him because he thinks the best game is to run away from dad

[Luke W]

I was running smooth, clear novice courses at training before I decided to trial and I acted as a steward before I trialled to get a feel for what happens in the ring.

I thought I had a rock solid start line stay and a good 'on switch' to make sure he didn't get distracted during a course.

I also took the opportunity to make my first trial one that was held at one of my clubs - so the environment was at least a little similar. That was probably the main driver - a trial at my home club.

Edited October 12, 2010 by Luke W

[kelpiechick]

One thing I did to fix our running off problem was to make up a shorter course and end BEFORE he got it into his head to run off. Of course I told the judge this before I started so they knew I was disqualifying myself.

I wish more people would do things like that !

Hard when you live in a backward agility state with no Not For Competition class - my other pet peeve, LOL. (My state anyway, not sure about NSW?)

Luke, you were well and truly ready before you first entered and it showed. I'm also guessing you have had a lot more of a positive trialling experience so far because you waited until you were ready.

(and I know how hard it is to do that with your first dog, believe me..... it becomes much easier to be 'patient' as you go along with multiple dogs.

[pie]

I think you should be up to excellent level (once you start trialling those first 3 Novice passes can rack up pretty quickly), be able to do front and rear crosses, and know that your dog will do a course without running over to jump on you or running off. Also a lead out / start line stay are good skills to have. Make sure your dog is used to training near other running dogs so that it isn't a new experience at their first trial, might just be a bit too tempting for them to run off and give chase!

It's also good to have a bit of distance work so that your dog is more confident working away from you and also of course good weaves! I always cringe when I see people at trials poking their arm in between each weave pole to show their dog the way to weave If a dog can't weave it probably shouldn't be entered in agility just yet.

Also agree with the stewarding siggestions, it helps you learn the process and rules.

ETA: Forgot to add if you can get to some show'n'go's / mock trials they are a great help and very good practice and help you guage where you and your dog are up to.

Our story: In our case we were doing well in training and I thought we should start trialling for a new challenge and to get used to the environment and also try and be ready to enter the Nationals that were in April, our first trial was at night and was only jumping (March this year), it was at the same grounds that we train on so it wasn't too much of a change. He didn't pass (went through a tunnel three times instead of just the one everyone had a good giggle ) but he enjoyed it, I'd say it was his speediest run ever , he struggles a bit with day trials and moreso with 'away' trials so I recommend getting your dog to different trials to get them used to the environment. This is where my younger dog will have an advantage because she has been hanging around trials since she was a few months old so she is more comfortable in that environment which can be very stressful for dogs such as my older one.

Edited October 12, 2010 by amypie

[Kavik]

One thing I did to fix our running off problem was to make up a shorter course and end BEFORE he got it into his head to run off. Of course I told the judge this before I started so they knew I was disqualifying myself.

I wish more people would do things like that !

Hard when you live in a backward agility state with no Not For Competition class - my other pet peeve, LOL. (My state anyway, not sure about NSW?)

Luke, you were well and truly ready before you first entered and it showed. I'm also guessing you have had a lot more of a positive trialling experience so far because you waited until you were ready.

(and I know how hard it is to do that with your first dog, believe me..... it becomes much easier to be 'patient' as you go along with multiple dogs.

Thanks I got a lot of advice and help to fix the problem, I think part of it was stress related. We are now in ADX and JDX so things are coming together!

ANKC doesn't have a NFC class but ADAA does. Unfortunately not very helpful for me as my dog won't tug at a trial and you aren't allowed to throw toys in NFC. I just told them that was what I was going to do and the judges were all fine with it

[Erny]

Firstly, I will start off with a big disclaimer: I know that I'm not anywhere near being ready to trial.

I am, however, starting to think that this is something I'd be interested in. We have only been training for less that 3 months but I think my boy has a knack for it and absolutely loves agility. We have been doing mock runs off lead and our instructor said that he is very talented and made the off-handed comment that he is almost ready to trial and that the run we had completed was at intermediate level. I hadn't even thought about it up until then.

I know we have a long way to go, but I'm confident that he'll get there (far more quickly than I will).

I was wondering how long people trained for before trailling? What made you think that you were ready to trial? Did you wait until you "knew" you'd pass, or until you knew you had enough focus so that your dog didn't run off etc? How well did that first trial go?

It's funny you should bring this up, Megan, as I actually said to one of the other agility participants at your group just last Sunday gone that I thought your boy is going to prove to be a good agility dog. He enjoys what he does and is really really tuned in to your body language. He looks for your direction but is ready to address/negotiate the next obstacle. For a dog who is only early into agility training, I think that's quite a huge indication.

I am really chuffed that you are thinking about competition. I don't think you have "a long way to go" before your first trial. I think you'll jump ahead in leaps and bounds. I do think that because your boy is so clued into you that the biggest thing to watch will be your placement/body language, as I suspect any little move you make he's going to 'read' it as meaning something. Which I guess means that you'll need to be careful to make it mean something. IE To only make moves that 'mean' something. Especially in these early days of training. But what do I know about agility? PK9's Agility Instructor would be the best one to tell you .

But ............ yay!!! I'm excited that you are thinking down this track even though I personally can't help you with the answers.

Edited October 12, 2010 by Erny

[smisch]

Jock well we're not even gonna talk about what a disaster he was when he started he could have used alot longer in training..

Denver on the other hand being my entirely salf taught dog I knew he was ready after only 16 weeks of work.. Well okay it sounds extreme but it wasn't we had worked alot at home and at a friends place the only thing I was totally unsure about was if he would actually give me a behaviour in a ring and that was why I entered him in a trial. I knew he knew what the correct behaviours were but I wasn't sure if he understood that it was the same thing in a ring as it was in his yard..

the only other behavior I was unsure about was Dens ability to focus he proved me wrong I was very much sure he would bolt to see the dog in the next ring, But if you've ever met Denver he is a very work driven dog and herding is a strong instinct the only way I personally felt for me to concur it was to get him into the ring and nutt it out.. First Trial we had the most amazing opening and then his new behaviour of jumping up started we managed around a ring with one breif glance of the next ring I called him back and we kept going.. 2nd Trial we had a minor hiccup at the very start to which I reset him and we ran managing a Q his behaviours had settled with the exception of the jumping.. 3rd trial we chose to enter agility he'd never done a contact or weave in the ring.. well we managed it easily.. Den has now been Trialling for almost 10 months he's the 2010 State champion for Novice Agility, 4th in the state for excellent jumping and has managed his AD JDX GD and SD titles.. not bad for a young rescue dog

Alot of people told me I was stupid for entering him and yes I probably did set him back abit, there were habits that had to be addressed like his jumping habit which can still be an issue sometimes but the other way I see it was a learning curve without that I would have never seen where my training failed.. I still get glimpses of where his training has failed and where we need to work on..

I guess its easier when you have a more experienced instructor to help you to pin point what you need to work on and who can also tell you when they think your ready. I do attend a club but I refuse to let instructors take credit for myself and Den as up until he stepped into a ring he'd never run at the club.

I'm sorry to Ramble but sometimes the whole story makes you think more about how you fit into it all. My Idea of being ready is when you believe your dogs behaviour is solid enough that you are ready to test it in a totally different situation because thats what it is is a test.. eventually it'll become a game in the ring but when you first step out your going OMG OMG can we do this, have we prepared enough.. eventually you settle into a comfortable routine knowing your dog can do what you ask..

Good luck cant wait to hear about all your adventures

[megan_]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

I'm going to make a bold claim here - and it may come back to haunt me - I am not the least bit worried about my boy running off. He is very focused on me, even if we're not working (at the park, lots of dogs running around, he looks to me for "permission" before running off. I can say "this way" and walk through the park without him running towards any dogs). If you see a black mini schnauzer cross with a mohawk running off then you'll know that I was wrong

I agree Erny, our biggest obstacle will be my body language, if I hesitate for a nano second, he picks that up.

He also gets a bit excited and frustrated that his mum is so slow and sometimes jumps on me on the flat. I think this will start to fade pretty quickly as he realised last week that he could go ahead of me and really started to drive through the obstacles (especially the weavers and tunnels).

I don't use any toys or treats to lure him, however I do have my treat pouch on me and reward him at the end of the run. As per Kavik's suggestion, I'll leave it off during our next training session and see if he still complies. I don't expect it to be much of an issue because he loves agility so much that the obstacles seem to be a reward in themselves.

Great suggestion about going along to a trial. How do I find out when one is on next (Melbourne, preferably KCC, but willign to travel).

Edited October 12, 2010 by megan_

[poodlefan]

The easiest way to know if you're ready to trial is to ask your instructor!

I asked mine. I also tell my students when I think they should give it a go. Sometimes it takes actually getting into the trialling ring to focus you on what you need to be working on.

Stewarding is always a good idea. You'll have a much better idea of what to expect when your time to trial comes.

[Erny]

I don't use any toys or treats to lure him, however I do have my treat pouch on me and reward him at the end of the run. As per Kavik's suggestion, I'll leave it off during our next training session and see if he still complies. I don't expect it to be much of an issue because he loves agility so much that the obstacles seem to be a reward in themselves.

I'd be inclined to leave your treat pouch on. But show him the treat will come from somewhere else (not necessarily on your person). Once he gets that idea, then remove the food treat pouch from your person.

You can "test" the situation by the abrupt removal of the food treat pouch, but then you potentially open up a can of worms should it prove that this does make a difference to him. I'm inclined to err on the side of caution and lead dogs (especially given he's going so well) into gradual changes that are less inclined to interrupt training progress.

Great suggestion about going along to a trial. How do I find out when one is on next (Melbourne, preferably KCC, but willing to travel).

There is an agility list. I'm sure Jannelle (your agility instructor) will be able to tell you when you see her on Sunday. In the meantime, a quicker answer is likely to come from the DOL persons here. And/or contact Dogs Victoria Agility Committee ???

[kelpiechick]

All the Victorian agility trials are listed here.

There are 2 on this weekend.

Saturday at KCC Park (Westernport) and Sunday at Ballarat. You can find all the information about times, etc. on the website.

[Vickie]

As well as some of the things others have mentioned, I think it's important to have a really good think about what you are expecting from you & your dog at your first trial and how you will deal with unplanned things should they happen. ie, if your dog misses a jump, will you continue or take it back to do the jump? If your dog breaks a start line, will you continue to run or reset your dog? etc.

Course walking is also VERY important & something lots of people don't consider as it is often not discussed & taught as fully as it should be at a club level. Attend some trials & ask they judge if you can walk the courses for practise. Find some online courses to look at & see if you can work out how you would handle them.

I think a big part of when you are ready, depends on what you are hoping to achieve. When I started trialling my boys years ago, neither were really ready. I just wanted to have a go . Zeus & I got it together pretty quickly & I think entering him is what motivated me to identify our weaknesses & train them.

I don't think Noah & I ever really got it together, but we did no harm & provided a lot of entertainment for judges & other competitors along the way.

Trim was well & truly ready when I started her & achieved some amazing things in her first year of trialling. Shine was the least ready of any of them...(she had never seen 3 of the obstacles until the week of her first trial )...but she has been great & is just the kind of dog to cope well with anything.

Pep has jus started training, but we hope to have her ready for Novice sometime early next year & given how she's going so far, it seems achievable.