Debarking In Sydney

[Steve K9Pro]

surely you are joking?

K9: about euthanasia being legal, no that is correct.

as i said earlier i knew a lady every one of her dogs were debarked and there were some 20 of them..

no how no way could they bark for help or yelp and not be heard.

K9: So this lady has debarked every one of her dogs, all 20 of them, hmmmm thats interesting.

But anyway, try doing some research and you will see that I am correct.

debarking DOES NOT SILENCE THE DOG FOR goodness sake.

K9: Unfortunately it is not an exact science, some dogs go through the procedure and no effect takes place, others the tissue grows

back or they bark off the scar tissue created in the surgery, others develop breathing problems and some are totally silent.

it lowers the pitch so it cant carry for miles . full stop.

it certainly can be heard by the owner... well unless its out in the country and hundreds of yards from them.

i have one of her dogs now and i can hear him 80 feet from me n how many suburban yards are much bigger than that nowdays? most even less

K9: so as most people in suburbia have 3 neighbours within 80 feet, the point of debarking is? lol

what a crock of misinformation that seems to me from what i have seen and heard over 30 years with friends debarked dogs, anyway

K9:Seems you travel in circles of people who like to debark dogs...

n the ones she had that bit, bit before they were done, some have attitude, others don't

K9: Russian Roulette anyone?

[asal]

surely you are joking?

K9: about euthanasia being legal, no that is correct.

as i said earlier i knew a lady every one of her dogs were debarked and there were some 20 of them..

no how no way could they bark for help or yelp and not be heard.

K9: So this lady has debarked every one of her dogs, all 20 of them, hmmmm thats interesting.

But anyway, try doing some research and you will see that I am correct.

debarking DOES NOT SILENCE THE DOG FOR goodness sake.

K9: Unfortunately it is not an exact science, some dogs go through the procedure and no effect takes place, others the tissue grows

back or they bark off the scar tissue created in the surgery, others develop breathing problems and some are totally silent.

it lowers the pitch so it cant carry for miles . full stop.

it certainly can be heard by the owner... well unless its out in the country and hundreds of yards from them.

i have one of her dogs now and i can hear him 80 feet from me n how many suburban yards are much bigger than that nowdays? most even less

K9: so as most people in suburbia have 3 neighbours within 80 feet, the point of debarking is? lol

what a crock of misinformation that seems to me from what i have seen and heard over 30 years with friends debarked dogs, anyway

K9:Seems you travel in circles of people who like to debark dogs...

n the ones she had that bit, bit before they were done, some have attitude, others don't

K9: Russian Roulette anyone?

yes she had three that would bite strangers, being chihuahuas it wasnt that much of a problem, only got chomped once helping doing nails for her.

but then perhaps u should be bringing in BSL for any chi's that bite too?

oddly when she died these three along with the boy were given to me, n once i was no longer the "stranger" in their house they dont bite? lucky for me they were the old ones and have since crossed the n theres only one left, the friendly one

yes i move in sick circles if that is what you intend to infer.

she lived in the suburbs. she was surrounded on two sides by a school so barking wasnt a problem there. BUT THE ONE neighbour she did have decided one day to call the RSPCA, Animal Welfare and the council ranger. all three turned up same day half n hour apart.

she was terribly distressed by the out of the blue to her complaint.

turned out they had a new baby that woke to the slightest sound so they did the biscuit.

she was given an ultimatioum.. debark or destruct every single one of em.

being a totaly dreadfull person she complied with the debark order as she for some odd reason didnt want to kill her dogs.

yep some sick unethical people out there.

n yes every single one of them could bark. it was the pitch lowered not them rendered totaly mute.

sorry to dissappoint you NOT.

so i gather u can be added to the list of those who dont agree with you, must be bad people? n so it goes.

so that makes me one of em, n so its then ever so highly ethical to insinuate im bad and to be not believed i gather?

agree or be tarred as unethical, is it?

or shut up when your posts are up or pay the price ?

somehow i think the quickest i rehome that dog of hers the better, but who will accept a tortured dog?.

thanks to all the crap being bandied about debarked dogs i learned fast, I cannot let strangers meet him, they think the worst the second he barks at them. so the word is being well spread. dead is better than debarked.

cant give it back to her. she had a heart attack afterwards, family thinks it was the stress. didnt die straight away lingered for quite a while.

as for the dog that the friend debarked and got its voice back. in the 60 odd years my husband n he were friends with that was the only dog he ever resorted to having done.

and he bred an awful lot of dogs over those decades.

think i remember being told he was the oldest kennel prefix still going of his chosen breed.

n no he bred cattle dogs, not chihuahuas.

n yes im extremly short tempered for some strange reason.

Edited October 14, 2010 by asal

[Steve K9Pro]

MMM, it is a never ending quest to replace the spray (which is not cheap) and

the batteries! Been there, done that; some dogs just dont give a flying flute

about the spray at all.

K9: Yes this is true on both counts, in our own tests spray collars are about 70 - 75% effective.

Next was the shock collar and even that is proving a battle.

My mind is firmly made up to have her debarked, it's a case of finding a vet

that will do it and the time to organize it and take her to such a vet.

This is one dog that barks at a fly farting.....

K9: There are good and bad ones and the behaviour takes time to extinguish, if it didnt the aversive would be so fierce it would be problematic. I might suggest looking into why your dog is barking at as little as a fly, this might help This link

[raz]

Give it up, asal. Steve acknowledged that it's a last resort - why on earth are you going out of your way to misconstrue his posts?

Dont bother answering. Ta.

[Steve K9Pro]

A: yes i move in sick circles if that is what you intend to infer.

K9: No not at all.

she lived in the suburbs. she was surrounded on two sides by a school so barking wasnt a problem there. BUT THE ONE neighbour she did have decided one day to call the RSPCA, Animal Welfare and the council ranger. all three turned up same day half n hour apart.

she was terribly distressed by the out of the blue to her complaint.

turned out they had a new baby that woke to the slightest sound so they did the biscuit.

she was given an ultimatioum.. debark or destruct every single one of em.

being a totaly dreatfull person she complied with the debark order as she or some odd reason didnt want to kill her dogs.

yep some sick unethical people out there.

n yes every single one of them could bark. it was the pitch lowered not them rendered totaly mute.

sorry to dissappoint you NOT.

K9: I am sure that she was in a situation she thought that was the best option, and I agree with debarking before euthanizing any dog. The reason I am pointing out other aspects of debarking is that they do exist. The problems I mentioned are well known amongst vets and behaviorists.

I am sure that council etc took a dim view of someone who had 20 barking dogs in suburbia.

I am in no way disappointed with your post and as I said, I dont disagree with Debarking under the right circumstances, which is when the dogs owner knows the possible outcomes and risks.

I am sure you wouldn't be against that either.

so i gather u can be added to the list of those u dont agree with you, must be bad people eh?

K9: lol perhaps there is a list? but I dont have one.

so that makes me one of em, n so its then ever so highly ethical to insinuate im bad and to be not believed i gather?

agree or be tarred as unethical, is it?

K9: Sorry I have no idea what you have written here lol..

[Rayvale]

Debarking.............

I had never even contemplated what that was about or intended for until I inherited a male in March this year. He is absolutely stunning, outgoing, friendly and as one person previously put it - "would bark at a fly farting"!

Cannot tell you how grateful I am that his previous owner had been whacked with a nuisance order and had him de-barked! I love him to pieces, but if he had his entire voice I am CERTAIN that I would be inviting trouble from my suburbia, dogless neighbours.

I do believe it is a case by case basis, and as the OP seems to have followed every reasonable avenue known then in this case, I would have to say that it may be the best possible outcome for her and her furkid!

(BTW - the dog has no idea that he has had the volume turned down - he still runs around opening his mouth to all who will look!)

LOL

[raz]

but if he had his entire voice I am CERTAIN that I would be inviting trouble from my suburbia

One of my dogs has a high pitched shrill bark that curdles the brain and I swear to god that some days when he chases a bird out of 'his' backyard I want to kill the little bastard so I dread to think what my neighbours think. I wish they'd report it to council so I could get my paperwork to have the little shit completely silenced.

[Erny]

BTW - the dog has no idea that he has had the volume turned down - he still runs around opening his mouth to all who will look!

I trust everyone has gathered that I am a "try behaviour modification first but agree with debarking/voice lowering before euth" person. Now that I have fully clarified that, I would like to make a point of saying that I do not believe that dogs don't know that they are not barking at their usually full volume. I have nothing scientific to back this up with but then I don't know that anyone has anything scientific to back up their beliefs that their dogs don't realise they don't have full voice, either.

Kind of like when I have laryngitis. I still talk. I'm aware of the huskiness of it and the inability to project my voice as I otherwise might. I do think it can be a bit frustrating at times. But I don't throw myself into pits of depression about it and it doesn't stop me from being happy. But the point being - I DO know it. And yes .... I would find it frustrating at times.

I do think that it could be the same for dogs at times, although I am sensitive to anthropomorphism.

Edited October 14, 2010 by Erny

[aussielover]

Hey could someone clarify if e collars are legal in NSW.

Had a look at the sompanion animals act or something and it said they are only legal when used as an invisible boundary???

Which if true goes to show the ridiculous nature of the ban- a shock is a shock whether its used for barking or running out of a property.

BTW i think ecollars are fine provided they are used under the direction of a professional. Possibly they are more humans than those citronella collars.

Just wanted to clarify that although i support de barking as a last resort (the op's situation sounded like a last resprt which is why i mentioned some vets in the area that do it), i def think e collars and other anti bark collars should be tried before surgery!

Edited October 14, 2010 by aussielover

[Erny]

Hey could someone clarify if e collars are legal in NSW. Had a look at the sompanion animals act or something and it said they are only legal when used as an invisible boundary???

Which if true goes to show the ridiculous nature of the ban- a shock is a shock whether its used for barking or running out of a property.

BTW i think ecollars are fine provided they are used under the direction of a professional. Possibly they are more humans than those citronella collars.

RT E-collars are often used effectively in training with even less stimulation than a confinement system would use.

There is no accounting for Government and the dog-laws they have and continue to bring in, IMO.

[aussielover]

So they are illegal?

I though k9 pro used them and he is in NSW?

Maybe K9 could clarify for us?

Maybe the Op could try to get a consult with k9 pro before deciding. Tho i haven't personally used them, lots here have with positive results and you can see his posts are balanced and sensible.

[raz]

Maybe the Op could try to get a consult with k9 pro before deciding. Tho i haven't personally used them, lots here have with positive results and you can see his posts are balanced and sensible.

Yes I think this is actually a really good idea if Dachie hasnt already had the dog debarked. Speaking from personal experience (not to do with nuisance barking but another dog that I was ready to kill), he knows what he's on about. He's a really good guy and just makes it all so easy to understand.

[Steve K9Pro]

So they are illegal?

I though k9 pro used them and he is in NSW?

Maybe K9 could clarify for us?

K9: Yep not permitted for use in NSW, lucky I travel so much eh...

[cowanbree]

Living in town I used to debark all my shelties as a matter of course. There are 2 types of debarking, 1 is total voice box removal which is done surgically through the throat. It normally results in a dog that can make no noise at all and I would never do it. The other method is more voice softening, a minor procedure commonly done down the throat. They can still bark, just not as loudly.

I would debark over using an electric collar any day. Shelties are barkers and debarked they could run play and be themselves which certainly wasn't the case when they were wearing collars

[asal]

Give it up, asal. Steve acknowledged that it's a last resort - why on earth are you going out of your way to misconstrue his posts?

Dont bother answering. Ta.

does steve now have two monikers k9 n steve?

i gather k9 being an expert, my crime was mentioning what i had observed that didnt fit what the expert said. again another case of shut up or wear the unethical billboard.

ho

dont bother answering. TA.

[raz]

does steve now have two monikers k9 n steve?

i gather k9 being an expert, my crime was mentioning what i had observed that didnt fit what the expert said. again another case of shut up or wear the unethical billboard.

ho

dont bother answering. TA.

You're weird. OK you win.

[asal]

does steve now have two monikers k9 n steve?

i gather k9 being an expert, my crime was mentioning what i had observed that didnt fit what the expert said. again another case of shut up or wear the unethical billboard.

ho

dont bother answering. TA.

You're weird. OK you win.

very civil of u actually, usually get branded , ranting or raving.. inference being mad i think

what was the prize incidently

didnt realise it was a competition

[The Teacup Warrior]

I know everyone here has different opinions, but I don't understand why some people here act so rudely towards others. It's pretty off-putting for newcomers to the board, to be honest.

Yeah yeah, I know - "if you don't like it, leave" - I'm not getting all butthurt because someone I've never even met doesn't like something that I said. I just can't believe how much b*tchiness, sarcasm and aggressiveness comes from some of the posters here. We don't all have to agree, but surely we can at least be courteous - we're all supposed to be adults here after all. How is anybody meant to learn anything here??? It's kind of disappointing.

Edited October 14, 2010 by The Teacup Warrior

[The Teacup Warrior]

Oh, and for anyone who was actually interested in knowing - puppy mills generally use a variety of methods to de-bark; most common are cutting or "shanking" the vocal cords (without anaesthetic, usually with a knife or screwdriver), heavy blows to the throat, or by ramming a metal pipe down the dog's throat.

I'm not "hammering" anyone. I simply wonder at what point do we draw the line at modifying an animal's behaviour and body for the sake of human convenience? I live right next to two barking dogs, and I've never felt the need to whine about the noise - earplugs, turn up the stereo, get out of the house and do something else. Mind you, after being at the shelter, I barely even notice it when a dog barks anymore, I kind of just tune it out. I'm not a big fan of complainers, particularly if they're neighbours. My opinion is that if someone has the time to complain, they've got time to do something useful - like help fix the problem.

Unfortunately, in this day and age people live in close proximity to one another. Some noise pollution as a result of that is inevitable. I don't understand why people get so worked up over a little noise (and this is coming from someone who has a neighbour who regularly has loud, obnoxious parties). People today just seem to have no tolerance for anything that they perceive to inconvenience them in the slightest way. Is it really that big a deal? Can't we all just get along for god's sake??? I mean, with all the war, genocide, rape, ethnic cleansing and generally horrible sh*t in the world, people would rather focus on petty carp like whether their neighbour's dog barks too much.

I despair for the human race sometimes, I really do.

Edited October 14, 2010 by The Teacup Warrior

[Moselle]

Oh, and for anyone who was actually interested in knowing - puppy mills generally use a variety of methods to de-bark; most common are cutting or "shanking" the vocal cords (without anaesthetic, usually with a knife or screwdriver), heavy blows to the throat, or by ramming a metal pipe down the dog's throat.

Oh dear.....TW...perhaps it wouldnt be such a bad idea if you delete this post of yours as it will inevitably plant ideas in the not so loving pet owner, nothing surprises me about people any more. I will then edit this post and remove yours.