Frustration At Training Classes

[cocoa]

I started attending a local dog obedience club for beginner lessons with Millie. We attended our second lesson this morning. So far I am finding the whole expereince frustrating and I'm wondering if I'm doing the right thing.

The club supplied us with a collar - the trainer called it a martingale collar, although it looks different to others I've seen. I think it works on the same principle. This is it here http://www.vasquezcollars.com.au/shop/blac...bing-dog-collar

Now, Millie is a beagle and I am perfectly aware that the breed is stubborn, obsessed with its nose, one-track minded etc. This morning one of the club trainers made a comment to the effect of "fancy wanting to train a beagle", which got me offside from the beginning.

Millie is just over four months old and has very little focus on me when we leave our yard. The instructor says I need to correct her with a pull on the lead then call her back to me and reward. I'm finding this very difficult to achieve. This morning she gave me a demonstration and I had to hold her big dog's lead while she did it. I don't feel comfortable with other people's bigs dogs so this was a bit uncomfortable and confronting for me. The instructor seemed able to achieve what she wanted, but I can't, and I feel totally incompetent. I'm not opposed to correction checks, but Millie seems to need constant repeated checks and this doesn't feel right to me. The instructor told me not to pull her back to me, but I can't seem to achieve what she wants me to without doing this.

The class moves quite quickly and I find that by the time I have worked on maintaining Millie's attention I've missed instructions/demonstrations. I feel like I am just yanking her along. Today was very windy and she was constantly distracted by blowing leaves.

I also feel that the collar is too big. Today the instructor tried to tighten it when she was demonstrating to me and couldn't because it's done up as far as it will go. Then she said Millie would just have to grow into it. This doesn't sound right to me.

The instructor seems quite compentent - although a little abrupt at times. I just can't shake the feeling that this class is not right for me. But I am worried that Millie will develop into an unruly dog who pulls on her lead and won't focus if I don't continue. Who am I kidding, she already pulls on her lead.

I live in a regional area, so training options are limited. There seem to be two obedience clubs in town and a fly ball club and that's about all I have been able to find.

Should I stick with this? Is Millie to young for this kind of training? Does anyone have any advice or suggestions? Videos? Anything?

PS. recent picture, as a thanks for reading.

Edited October 10, 2010 by cocoa

[Staranais]

Hopefully Becs (can't remember her DOL name right now!) will come and post. She's doing amazing things with her beagle Daisy.

[huski]

Now, Millie is a beagle and I am perfectly aware that the breed is stubborn, obsessed with its nose, one-track minded etc. This morning one of the club trainers made a comment to the effect of "fancy wanting to train a beagle", which got me offside from the beginning.

What a load of crap, it would instantly turn me off her as a trainer.

Feel free to link her to my youtube channel if she wants to see why someone would "fancy" training (and competing with) a beagle.

Millie is just over four months old and has very little focus on me when we leave our yard. The instructor says I need to correct her with a pull on the lead then call her back to me and reward. I'm finding this very difficult to achieve. This morning she gave me a demonstration and I had to hold her big dog's lead while she did it. I don't feel comfortable with other people's bigs dogs so this was a bit uncomfortable and confronting for me. The instructor seemed able to achieve what she wanted, but I can't, and I feel totally incompetent. I'm not opposed to correction checks, but Millie seems to need constant repeated checks and this doesn't feel right to me. The instructor told me not to pull her back to me, but I can't seem to achieve what she wants me to without doing this.

The class moves quite quickly and I find that by the time I have worked on maintaining Millie's attention I've missed instructions/demonstrations. I feel like I am just yanking her along. Today was very windy and she was constantly distracted by blowing leaves.

I also feel that the collar is too big. Today the instructor tried to tighten it when she was demonstrating to me and couldn't because it's done up as far as it will go. Then she said Millie would just have to grow into it. This doesn't sound right to me.

The instructor seems quite compentent - although a little abrupt at times. I just can't shake the feeling that this class is not right for me. But I am worried that Millie will develop into an unruly dog who pulls on her lead and won't focus if I don't continue. Who am I kidding, she already pulls on her lead.

I live in a regional area, so training options are limited. There seem to be two obedience clubs in town and a fly ball club and that's about all I have been able to find.

Should I stick with this? Is Millie to young for this kind of training? Does anyone have any advice or suggestions? Videos? Anything?

The trainer sounds pretty incompetent to me - many trainers can take a dog and train it themselves, but a good trainer can get the handler doing it themselves. And honestly, at four months, a good trainer should be able to get you walking her on a loose leash without excessive leash corrections.

It's tricky as you are in a regional area, but it doesn't sound like this particular club environment is setting you or your dog up for success. I know exactly how you are feeling. K9 Pro does a loose leash walking distance package, that might be worth considering The down side of club training is that classes can move quickly and instructors don't often have time or the ability to work one on one or at the pace each dog needs to be working at. A bad class can do more harm than good.

When you are doing loose leash walking training (say outside of class) have you tried turning sharply on your heel in the opposite direction when she pulls, instead of pulling her towards you?

PS. recent picture, as a thanks for reading.

She is a gorgeous little thing!

Edited October 10, 2010 by huski

[huski]

Hopefully Becs (can't remember her DOL name right now!) will come and post. She's doing amazing things with her beagle Daisy.

hehe, snap SA! Don't know I have much constructive advice to give though, apart from having been there, and knowing how frustrating it can be especially when people go "why would you bother training x breed?"

Edited October 10, 2010 by huski

[Jigsaw]

Millie looks very sweet! I hope Huski comes in and posts here. She has a beagle too and has worked hard with her, training her in drive (food drive) to achieve a level where she is now competing in obedience with her beagle, Daisy.

If you are using a collar that is too large for your pup your corrections may not be as effective as with a suitably fitted collar and if it is too big you may also run the risk of her backing out of it and running off. If you are just starting to train Millie and she doesn't know what you are asking her then she shouldn't be corrected. If you are not comfortable with the training methods find someone you do feel more comfortable with. If you let us know what area you are in someone may be able to point you to some other trainers in your area.

I would be doing much more focus work with her inside your home before you even went outside, using positive training techniques to get her focus back on you. If your puppy is food or play driven harness that enthusiasm to train with. There are a few threads about training in drive, check out K9Pro's website as well.

ETA Others beat me to it re Huski!!

Edited October 10, 2010 by Jigsaw

[sas]

Heya,

There's a member here who trials her Beagle so yes you can do it!

Are they the ultimate obedience dog, probably not, nor are my breed but who cares right, you want to train your dog in basic obedience there is no reason why you cannot.

Is the collar right for her....maybe if it were fitted correctly - there's no point in using an ill fitting piece of equipment.

If the method right for you and your dog, maybe, maybe not, you should only use a method that you're comfortable using.

Most trainers can take someones dog and work with it and then give it back and the owner struggles that's because 'You' are the one that has to learn first before you can train your dog - very early days yet

So I guess to ask yourself the question/s......is the equipment right for your dog......is the method right for you and your dog?

If Yes or Maybe, stick at it. If No, then find somewhere else to go or a one on one trainer if possible or you can clicker train at home and then once you've got that bit sorted you can go out in the world of distractions.

Edited October 10, 2010 by sas

[bedazzledx2]

Firstly I think you may be right...the collar is probably a bit big. If you paid for it as part of the course then you are quite within your rights to ask for a smaller size. You should be able to adjust it so the two fabric ends just meet when the chain is taut. It is a martingale collar and if you don't like this particular one you can get another style at a pet supply shop.

Nothing wrong with Beagles!!!! Lovely dogs!!!! In fact the Customs and Quarantine use them and I can assure you they are highly trained working dogs!!!

It sounds as though you are being taught to run before you can walk.... take it a bit slower and work on the foundation skills of attention and focus while you are stationary before going anywhere. If you have agility classes in your area this can help to teach her skills as well as impulse control. Remember it doesn't matter what you teach your dog (agility, tracking, tricks etc) its all good and learning how to learn is the most valuable lesson for her.

I started attending a local dog obedience club for beginner lessons with Millie. We attended our second lesson this morning. So far I am finding the whole expereince frustrating and I'm wondering if I'm doing the right thing.

The club supplied us with a collar - the trainer called it a martingale collar, although it looks different to others I've seen. I think it works on the same principle. This is it here http://www.vasquezcollars.com.au/shop/blac...bing-dog-collar

Now, Millie is a beagle and I am perfectly aware that the breed is stubborn, obsessed with its nose, one-track minded etc. This morning one of the club trainers made a comment to the effect of "fancy wanting to train a beagle", which got me offside from the beginning.

Millie is just over four months old and has very little focus on me when we leave our yard. The instructor says I need to correct her with a pull on the lead then call her back to me and reward. I'm finding this very difficult to achieve. This morning she gave me a demonstration and I had to hold her big dog's lead while she did it. I don't feel comfortable with other people's bigs dogs so this was a bit uncomfortable and confronting for me. The instructor seemed able to achieve what she wanted, but I can't, and I feel totally incompetent. I'm not opposed to correction checks, but Millie seems to need constant repeated checks and this doesn't feel right to me. The instructor told me not to pull her back to me, but I can't seem to achieve what she wants me to without doing this.

The class moves quite quickly and I find that by the time I have worked on maintaining Millie's attention I've missed instructions/demonstrations. I feel like I am just yanking her along. Today was very windy and she was constantly distracted by blowing leaves.

I also feel that the collar is too big. Today the instructor tried to tighten it when she was demonstrating to me and couldn't because it's done up as far as it will go. Then she said Millie would just have to grow into it. This doesn't sound right to me.

The instructor seems quite compentent - although a little abrupt at times. I just can't shake the feeling that this class is not right for me. But I am worried that Millie will develop into an unruly dog who pulls on her lead and won't focus if I don't continue. Who am I kidding, she already pulls on her lead.

I live in a regional area, so training options are limited. There seem to be two obedience clubs in town and a fly ball club and that's about all I have been able to find.

Should I stick with this? Is Millie to young for this kind of training? Does anyone have any advice or suggestions? Videos? Anything?

PS. recent picture, as a thanks for reading.

[OSoSwift]

We had a beagle at our classes that had amazing attention and was a very good worker and although sher owner never trialled she was working off lead with beautiful attention and focus. She could have trialled easily at novice level.

I am thinking that maybe your instructor is not used with training breeds that can take a little longer to find what makes them want to work. It is good to train around other dogs as you want your dog to listen around distracion, however maybe a few one on one lessons may be the way to get you started. Can you possibly get some one on one lessons?

And I second the attention on focus and attention while stationary.

Goodluck

[cocoa]

What a load of crap, it would instantly turn me off her as a trainer.

Feel free to link her to my youtube channel if she wants to see why someone would "fancy" training (and competing with) a beagle.

hehe, snap SA! Don't know I have much constructive advice to give though, apart from having been there, and knowing how frustrating it can be especially when people go "why would you bother training x breed?"

It's so unhelpful. Especially since the club in question is supposedly promoting responsible pet ownership (it's on all their flyers). So I'd bother because it's the responsible thing to do, right?

It was another trainer at the club, not mine, but yeah, I wasn't impressed. I thought of you actually! And, I had a little chuckle when 15 minutes later his dog wouldn't come when called.

The trainer sounds pretty incompetent to me - many trainers can take a dog and train it themselves, but a good trainer can get the handler doing it themselves. And honestly, at four months, a good trainer should be able to get you walking her on a loose leash without excessive leash corrections.

It's tricky as you are in a regional area, but it doesn't sound like this particular club environment is setting you or your dog up for success. I know exactly how you are feeling. K9 Pro does a loose leash walking distance package, that might be worth considering The down side of club training is that classes can move quickly and instructors don't often have time or the ability to work one on one or at the pace each dog needs to be working at. A bad class can do more harm than good.

When you are doing loose leash walking training (say outside of class) have you tried turning sharply on your heel in the opposite direction when she pulls, instead of pulling her towards you?

I tried it a few times before I started the classes and I think I will go back and give it another go. I also had a look at the K9 training program and I will go back and have another closer look.

She is a gorgeous little thing!

Thanks, she's adorable. That could be part of the problem!

I would be doing much more focus work with her inside your home before you even went outside, using positive training techniques to get her focus back on you. If your puppy is food or play driven harness that enthusiasm to train with. There are a few threads about training in drive, check out K9Pro's website as well.

This is what my gut is telling me. She needs to learn to focus first.

Heya,

Most trainers can take someones dog and work with it and then give it back and the owner struggles that's because 'You' are the one that has to learn first before you can train your dog - very early days yet

So I guess to ask yourself the question/s......is the equipment right for your dog......is the method right for you and your dog?

If Yes or Maybe, stick at it. If No, then find somewhere else to go or a one on one trainer if possible or you can clicker train at home and then once you've got that bit sorted you can go out in the world of distractions.

This is why I was interested in a class - because I thought it would teach me how to teach her. But I'm not sure that it is. I just feel confused and frustrated. I keep missing the instructions and the whole thing is going to fast for me. Unfortunately, my options here are limited.

It sounds as though you are being taught to run before you can walk.... take it a bit slower and work on the foundation skills of attention and focus while you are stationary before going anywhere. If you have agility classes in your area this can help to teach her skills as well as impulse control. Remember it doesn't matter what you teach your dog (agility, tracking, tricks etc) its all good and learning how to learn is the most valuable lesson for her.

Thanks, this is how I feel. Really, I just want the basics - walk on a loose leash, a good sit, a good stay and (hopefully) a good recall. I have taught her a few things using food as a lure, then reward. Things seemed easy then!

Thanks for the advice everyone. I am feeling a little better.

[Staff'n'Toller]

What is your general area? You don't have to be be specific, perhaps we can see if there's anyone around who runs smaller, more positive based training classes.

[Tassie]

IMHO you are right to feel frustrated. Bedazzled is right about trying to make you get the pup to run before she can walk.

She is still a baby puppy, and it sounds like this might be a beginners class rather than a puppy class? For me a puppy class should be concentrating on relationship building and encouraging focus and attention and showing the pup and the handler how to learn. Little steps.

Oh, and BTW, kids and dogs on windy days ...... :D ... ask any school teacher about windy days.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

When I first started with my dog, she needed constant checks to keep her attention, and yummy treats held in front of her face. Wish I'd known a bit more about clicker training for heel - though I am extremely unco when it comes to working a clicker, lead and treats all at once.

If you don't feel comfortable with this trainer or group, you could have a chat with them about attitude and see if they can sort something out, otherwise, you may have to find another way or club. The flyball won't help unless she is already ball obsessed and has great recall.

Maybe if you post in here, in the training forum bit, each thing you want to teach the dog eg recall, or loose lead walking (ie no pulling) we can help with training techniques and links to videos and you can work at home, in five minute sessions. And just use dog club for socialisation - eg meeting lots of new dogs (alway ask owner's permission first).

I recommend Lesley Nelson's Really Reliable Recall DVD for recall. And Susan Garrett's Crate Games DVD for getting a dog to work for you and be happy in a crate - which is very handy for a variety of reasons.

Fun things for beagles to - dog sport wise include Tracking and maybe Earthdog (depending on whether the club is open to all dogs the right size). But I've also seen Beagles doing obedience. Not yet seen one doing agility but I guess if you can train one to heel off lead and recall - you could train agility.

[ness]

There is a beagle in WA that not only has obedience titles but agility titles as well so beagles can certainly do both agility and obedience successfully :D . I know huski is about to start agility shortly with Daisy as well.

[Tassie]

Yep - Beagles can certainly do agility. The people who have Best Friends holiday camp in Vic had a couple of super beagles who did super well in obedience, agility and tracking. It's really all about focus and relationship.

[huski]

I've seen beags doing agility and yep I will be starting with Daisy shortly, it will be entertaining if nothing else :D

[Red Fox]

This morning one of the club trainers made a comment to the effect of "fancy wanting to train a beagle", which got me offside from the beginning.

:p

Sorry this cracked me up. I've heard it before too - fancy wanting to train a hound

Yep, fancy wanting to train a more challenging dog, fancy having to think outside the square, fancy having to try motivating your dog to work...

The Evil Beagle is an excellent example of one of those "impossible to train" hounds. ;)

[JulesP]

People say crap about all breeds of dogs so don't take it personally. I get heaps of crap about having border collies.

I teach that age pups. The pups are trained on flat collars and there is no yanking. At the end of the 8 weeks most are loose lead walking.

If this training school doesn't train using methods that you agree with then you really need to find a new school or you will just be snakey each week and if you are feeling snakey you are not going to get any good work. You need to believe in the instructors and in the methods.

[beagie]

I started attending a local dog obedience club for beginner lessons with Millie. We attended our second lesson this morning. So far I am finding the whole expereince frustrating and I'm wondering if I'm doing the right thing.

The club supplied us with a collar - the trainer called it a martingale collar, although it looks different to others I've seen. I think it works on the same principle. This is it here http://www.vasquezcollars.com.au/shop/blac...bing-dog-collar

Now, Millie is a beagle and I am perfectly aware that the breed is stubborn, obsessed with its nose, one-track minded etc. This morning one of the club trainers made a comment to the effect of "fancy wanting to train a beagle", which got me offside from the beginning.

Millie is just over four months old and has very little focus on me when we leave our yard. The instructor says I need to correct her with a pull on the lead then call her back to me and reward. I'm finding this very difficult to achieve. This morning she gave me a demonstration and I had to hold her big dog's lead while she did it. I don't feel comfortable with other people's bigs dogs so this was a bit uncomfortable and confronting for me. The instructor seemed able to achieve what she wanted, but I can't, and I feel totally incompetent. I'm not opposed to correction checks, but Millie seems to need constant repeated checks and this doesn't feel right to me. The instructor told me not to pull her back to me, but I can't seem to achieve what she wants me to without doing this.

The class moves quite quickly and I find that by the time I have worked on maintaining Millie's attention I've missed instructions/demonstrations. I feel like I am just yanking her along. Today was very windy and she was constantly distracted by blowing leaves.

I also feel that the collar is too big. Today the instructor tried to tighten it when she was demonstrating to me and couldn't because it's done up as far as it will go. Then she said Millie would just have to grow into it. This doesn't sound right to me.

The instructor seems quite compentent - although a little abrupt at times. I just can't shake the feeling that this class is not right for me. But I am worried that Millie will develop into an unruly dog who pulls on her lead and won't focus if I don't continue. Who am I kidding, she already pulls on her lead.

I live in a regional area, so training options are limited. There seem to be two obedience clubs in town and a fly ball club and that's about all I have been able to find.

Should I stick with this? Is Millie to young for this kind of training? Does anyone have any advice or suggestions? Videos? Anything?

PS. recent picture, as a thanks for reading.

get away from that instructor as fast as you can. Beagles are happy little hounds, by the sounds of things any dog would shut down under those conditions

I have an eight month old Beagle he is a delight to train and handle, he is clicker trained. Yes they have a nose on them, yes they like to get it on the ground

but bullying a dog like this will not get you anywhere. Billy has alsorts of things he can do. I would start by using a clicker teach the watch command

your Beagle can and will think for himself and will eventualy click onto what you want. Training any breed takes time and patience and maybe you need

a little more time and patience with a Beagle but believe me it is well worth it in the end. Do things he likes like tuggy with a rope, and motivation.

I started Billy off at home at ten weeks, I now go to a club to proof him, and he doesn't always work as well there as I know he can but that is a work

in progress I would never allow anyone to treat any of my dogs like that lady say's. There are top obedience Beagles throughout the world

so don't listen to the negative comments which I have had plenty of believe me.

Billy is a great little retriever, and a mint little heeler, when he starts to go nose on the ground I swing quickly around in front of him and walk backwards

using food to lure him as soon as he is concentrating again I move into the heel position. Billy is eight months. If he insists the ground is more interesting

then I change and do something else with him, until he is back concentrating again. A four month old pup in any breed finds it hard to concentrate for

long intervals I would keep it short especialy heeling. There is a theory to teach your dog to go sniff, however treats are with me so if you want them then

best you pay atention. You do not need ridiculous large collars, I have a belt around my waist which I have Billy attached to I never never use my lead as

a sterring wheel this is a definite no no. You should be teaching things at home with a clicker tricks all sorts of things leave your heeling to last except

for very small amounts at short intervals. Enjoy your little hound they are mint little dogs. I have always had gun dogs this is my first adventure into the

hound world and I find him great. You cannot bully these types of dogs believe me I know my GWP would never be bullied and he is a great dog also

[cocoa]

Thanks for the advice everyone. Lots to think about.

Beagie, I am doing some reading on clicker training. It could be the way to go for us. I'm also going back to the flat collar. I don't think this class is for us.

Mrs Rusty Bucket, thanks for the DVD recommendations.

[PAX]

It can be really hard at a club.....big classes and one trainer.

I suggest you watch the trainers at you club, there is most likely an advanced class after your class. Pick the trainer thats dogs work the way you want your dog to work then stalk that trainer.....kidding, just ask them for advice.