Need Advice To Give To Friend Looking For An "oodle"

[WreckitWhippet]

Moral of the story, if you purchase a ( insert x here ) you'll either need to learn to groom yourself or be prepared to head off to the groomers every 6-12 weeks, depending on how much time you spend attempting to keep the mats out inbetween.

I really should have taken a pic of the fleece that came off that dog. It was very heavy and perhaps the most coat I've ever taken off one dog. Several DOLers saw that one and were shocked at the condition it was in

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

Ask her why she's so intent on furthering the misery which is life for the parent animals. Ask her how she will take care of the behavioural issues which these pups often display due to the parent animals' health and temperament, never mind the living conditions into which the pups are born. Ask her whether animal welfare is important to her or whether suffering is acceptable in her quest for a mutt which may have the worst of both parents' characteristics instead of the best. Ask her how much time and/or money she's willing to part with on grooming. Ask her where this pup will be sleeping and living because all dogs need to be indoors with their family. Ask her to visit the local pounds, shelters and rescue groups and then make her case for buying yet another mutt which just adds to the pile of unwanted dogs being killed due to the lack of a suitable home when she could have done something positive and rescued a crossbred dog or pup instead.

Ask her to donate the pup's purchase price to her favourite shelter/rescue when she does the right thing and adopts a rescue instead of buying this "DD" pup.

Show her Leo's Story. Show her anything else you can find about puppy mills. No matter what the "front" is for these pups, they all come from either a puppy mill or a Backyard Breeder and neither is the best start for a family dog. People whose motivation is profit, profit and profit do not generally make responsible breeders, nor do they breed sound family pets.

Oh, tell her that it's usually people like that who denigrate the purebred dog, and the hard-working registered breeders who breed to better their chosen animals. Who actually know what they're doing. Who actually care about the litters they bring into the world. Who also actually care about each pup's new owners and who will support those owners for the dog's entire life. And who will take back one of their dogs for any reason at any time.

[Sheridan]

Moral of the story, if you purchase a ( insert x here ) you'll either need to learn to groom yourself or be prepared to head off to the groomers every 6-12 weeks, depending on how much time you spend attempting to keep the mats out inbetween.

I really should have taken a pic of the fleece that came off that dog. It was very heavy and perhaps the most coat I've ever taken off one dog. Several DOLers saw that one and were shocked at the condition it was in

Doesn't this bit of wisdom apply to any non-shedding dog? If you're prepared to buy a non-shedding dog, be prepared to groom it. It doesn't matter whether it's an oodle or not. After all, oodles are not alone in having difficult coats.

Oh, tell her that it's usually people like that who denigrate the purebred dog, and the hard-working registered breeders who breed to better their chosen animals. Who actually know what they're doing. Who actually care about the litters they bring into the world. Who also actually care about each pup's new owners and who will support those owners for the dog's entire life. And who will take back one of their dogs for any reason at any time.

And the people the 'breeder' rubbishes are the people from whom puppyfarmers and BYBs try to source their dogs. After all, no purebreds, no oodles.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Sheridan

[WreckitWhippet]

For some reason all logic and common sense appears to go out the window when it comes to the cross breds, their coat types and grooming requirements.

I have had people stand in front of me and tell me they didn't buy a Poodle because it required grooming and for some reason, they thought the matted mess they just presented to me wouldn't ...

[poodlefan]

For some reason all logic and common sense appears to go out the window when it comes to the cross breds, their coat types and grooming requirements.

I have had people stand in front of me and tell me they didn't buy a Poodle because it required grooming and for some reason, they thought the matted mess they just presented to me wouldn't ...

There are breeders of these crosses out there with great sales pitches and who'll happily spend half an hour on the phone telling you any number of porkies to take your money.

[Moselle]

Ask her if she would like a blind dog by the time its 6 years old? We see so many oodles with PRA. :D Reputable breeders of purebred dogs DNA test for it, puppy farmers don't.

Not advocating cross breeding but I am one that likes advocating the truth. Plenty of purebred poodles with PRA from reg. breeders. Not all reg. breeders conduct health tests.

[Moselle]

Ask her why she's so intent on furthering the misery which is life for the parent animals. Ask her how she will take care of the behavioural issues which these pups often display due to the parent animals' health and temperament, never mind the living conditions into which the pups are born. Ask her whether animal welfare is important to her or whether suffering is acceptable in her quest for a mutt which may have the worst of both parents' characteristics instead of the best. Ask her how much time and/or money she's willing to part with on grooming. Ask her where this pup will be sleeping and living because all dogs need to be indoors with their family. Ask her to visit the local pounds, shelters and rescue groups and then make her case for buying yet another mutt which just adds to the pile of unwanted dogs being killed due to the lack of a suitable home when she could have done something positive and rescued a crossbred dog or pup instead.

Ask her to donate the pup's purchase price to her favourite shelter/rescue when she does the right thing and adopts a rescue instead of buying this "DD" pup.

Show her Leo's Story. Show her anything else you can find about puppy mills. No matter what the "front" is for these pups, they all come from either a puppy mill or a Backyard Breeder and neither is the best start for a family dog. People whose motivation is profit, profit and profit do not generally make responsible breeders, nor do they breed sound family pets. :D

Oh, tell her that it's usually people like that who denigrate the purebred dog, and the hard-working registered breeders who breed to better their chosen animals. Who actually know what they're doing. Who actually care about the litters they bring into the world. Who also actually care about each pup's new owners and who will support those owners for the dog's entire life. And who will take back one of their dogs for any reason at any time.

Oh how I wish that was true but it isn't always the case. I was a reg. breeder and mixed with a fair few other reg. breeders and I can safely say that the breeders who will support the new owners for the dog's entire life are a minority. They exist and are worth their weight in gold but they are a rare species indeed.

[Esky the husky]

Boy how good would it be if you could get a registered cav breeder to call her and be just as nice.

[poodlefan]

Ask her if she would like a blind dog by the time its 6 years old? We see so many oodles with PRA. Reputable breeders of purebred dogs DNA test for it, puppy farmers don't.

Not advocating cross breeding but I am one that likes advocating the truth. Plenty of purebred poodles with PRA from reg. breeders. Not all reg. breeders conduct health tests.

Moselle sometimes I wonder why you're a member here. You certainly seem to hold a low opinion of both purebred dogs and their breeders :D

[Guest sharynriding]

I have asked most of the questions that you raised Lillysmum but had forgotten about Leo's story. That might have some effect on her, thanks. Thanks everybody for the suggestions. Please pm me with any names of cav breeders that I could put her in touch with. Again, many thanks for the help.

[lanabanana]

Ask her if she would like a blind dog by the time its 6 years old? We see so many oodles with PRA. Reputable breeders of purebred dogs DNA test for it, puppy farmers don't.

Not advocating cross breeding but I am one that likes advocating the truth. Plenty of purebred poodles with PRA from reg. breeders. Not all reg. breeders conduct health tests.

Moselle sometimes I wonder why you're a member here. You certainly seem to hold a low opinion of both purebred dogs and their breeders :D

I don't think that post represents a low opinion of purebred breeders/dogs necessarily.

I have noticed that alot of people here quickly count you (not actually you) as an anti purebred dog/breeder type person if you make comments questioning some things or agreeing with something about mutts/disagreeing with something abour purebreds. It has happened a few times to me, told to go and join a mutt forum or whatever. And I am def not anti purebred....I AM anti crap breeder regardless of what you are breeding, and admitedly I love a good bit of mutt but like a lot of people on this site, I want a purebred dog and am here to get some brill information.

Just sometimes, you have to question some of the comments made because some of them are gross generalisations. Its nothing to do necessarily with being anti purebred.

Or in Moselles case, being the repressed individual she is (living in the olden days), she is probably trying to wind everyone up to feel a bit more "strong" LOL (gross generalisationg anyone LMAO)

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

I have asked most of the questions that you raised Lillysmum but had forgotten about Leo's story. That might have some effect on her, thanks. Thanks everybody for the suggestions. Please pm me with any names of cav breeders that I could put her in touch with. Again, many thanks for the help.

So is she quite content to contribute to this misery (parent animals) in that case?

I think anything you do or say if that's true will be wasted. But keep trying. Take her to a local kill shelter if you can - ask her whether she is happy to see an end to all the lovely dogs and pups there just because she likes the sound of some idiotic BYB or front for a puppy mill. Remind her that the idiot she's spoken to (once?) is highly skilled in sales and has her spiel down-pat because that's how she makes her filthy, despicable living. Remind her that suffering is avoidable but only if people just like her stop buying these so-called Designer Mutts. Ask her when the suffering will end if people like her keep doing what they do. Tell her how socially unacceptable buying a pup from a puppy mill is becoming and that there is a WHOLE MOVEMENT of people opposed to this horrific way of farming dogs. This will only grow larger as more people start to realise how bad the situation has become for these parent animals and the litters they're forced into producing, usually without a break, and that the bitches are discarded as if they're rubbish the moment they are no longer useful. :D :D

[tdierikx]

Maybe if she's so intent on a crossbreed dog, then you could steer her towards a rescue pup - one that has been in foster care, the carer can tell her all of the ins and outs of the dog in question... which is a whole lot more than some of the crossbreed "breeders" will tell you when trying to get you to part with your heard earned dosh...

T.

[GoldenGirl85]

Except that these "breeders" are convincing the people who dont know any better that they arent crossbreds but are purebred themselves, and if they are very nice then surely they cant be one of those horrible breeders that misuses their dogs like all those horrible puppy farmers :D

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I don't know why this friend would listen to a saleswoman who just wants to make another fast buck over her friend who has nothing to gain by her advice.

Would she listen to a shop keeper who said she looks great in this outfit over her friend who gently suggests she'd look better in something else?

Really deluded.

But it would be good if you could make things easy for her and get some sales pitches from nice ladies who work for rescue/shelters or have pure bred dogs that meet the requirements.

http://kb.rspca.org.au/How-do-I-find-a-goo...reeder_335.html

Ask her if this "nice lady" will let her meet both the parents of the puppies and show her around where they live. Ask the "nice lady" if she will take the puppy back if it doesn't turn out as promised. Ask the "nice lady" to put any important promises in writing eg that the temperment will be acceptable and laid back. By the way, I've never met a "laid back" poodle, all the ones I've seen (including several today at agility) are completely hyper. One family owned poodle was a "houdini" dog, always escaping and touring the neighbourhood.

Otherwise - I'd trust this "nice lady" is telling the truth less than I would trust a used car salesman - because there are laws to protect people from used car salesmen. I'd also google the name of the "nice lady's" business and related keywords eg the name of the town or pickup suburb to see if any problems turn up. Some puppy farmers use "nice ladies" and their "homes" as a front for selling. The origin of the puppies and the conditions they are kept in when there is no buyer around are still appalling.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Mrs Rusty Bucket

[Jed]

Well, if she is set on a oodley thingie, there's not much you can do.

Except arm her ----

Ask her to ensure the producer shows her the results of tests on the parents - PRA on the poodle, heart clear on the cavalier, and if it is under 5, probably it's parents should be heart clear too. Have both parents been vet checked for luxating patellas..

The producer should show her both parents. She should be shown, and be happy with, the place where the pup was raised.

She should ask the producer whether there is a health guarantee, what it says, and how long it goes for.

If she wants non shedding, go a mini poodle - from PRA tested and LP checked parents. Poodles need frequent clipping, and some grooming but great little dogs, sharp, intelligent, and such fun. Wonderful in competition such as obedience, agility or jumping for the competitiion inclined child or family.

If she wants cruisy and laid back, a Cavalier is the way to go - great with kids, easy to train, happy homey little pets, make a fair fist of obedience, agillity or jumping but grooming is required twice a week, and fine hair behind ears and under "arms" needs more frequent checking or grooming.

Cavaliers are my breed, and without bias, it is the breed I would recommend for a first time dog owner - they are one of the very few breeds who cope and cause no dramas with little or no training. As long as you love one, it's not a big deal if you never train it much. Your average cav will move in, check out your joint, assess how things work, and just fit in. They actually train the owner to their ways, but the owner isn't aware of that, and the cav causes no drama if he is the alpha dog - no one much notices!!

A purebred dog will cost less than a oodley thing, and there will be proof of parentage. The oodley thing MAY be a cavalier x poodle, or it may not be -- who is to know for sure?

Why would anyone buy a car chucked together by the would be unqualified mechanic down the road from bits of different cars in his back yard, - when they could have a nice Mercedes Benz for LESS. Makes NO sense.

But, if your friend has ALL the facts, and that is what she wants, she will get that, and good luck. In the end, the most important thing is that we get the dog which suits us - whatever that may be.

As the numbers of purebred dogs continue to decline, and the number of pet pups increases, more and more people will buy oodleys and other x breds, and rather than criticise them, I think we would do better to educate pet buyers in what to look for.

There were some Cavoodle x Maltese for $1800 in a petshop I saw today. So, mongs, Cavalier, Poodle Maltese maybe - no proof of anything. huge Maltese pups too - if they were purebred Maltese I'll eat my Akubura

[lanabanana]

Well, if she is set on a oodley thingie, there's not much you can do.

Except arm her ----

Ask her to ensure the producer shows her the results of tests on the parents - PRA on the poodle, heart clear on the cavalier, and if it is under 5, probably it's parents should be heart clear too. Have both parents been vet checked for luxating patellas..

The producer should show her both parents. She should be shown, and be happy with, the place where the pup was raised.

She should ask the producer whether there is a health guarantee, what it says, and how long it goes for.

If she wants non shedding, go a mini poodle - from PRA tested and LP checked parents. Poodles need frequent clipping, and some grooming but great little dogs, sharp, intelligent, and such fun. Wonderful in competition such as obedience, agility or jumping for the competitiion inclined child or family.

If she wants cruisy and laid back, a Cavalier is the way to go - great with kids, easy to train, happy homey little pets, make a fair fist of obedience, agillity or jumping but grooming is required twice a week, and fine hair behind ears and under "arms" needs more frequent checking or grooming.

Cavaliers are my breed, and without bias, it is the breed I would recommend for a first time dog owner - they are one of the very few breeds who cope and cause no dramas with little or no training. As long as you love one, it's not a big deal if you never train it much. Your average cav will move in, check out your joint, assess how things work, and just fit in. They actually train the owner to their ways, but the owner isn't aware of that, and the cav causes no drama if he is the alpha dog - no one much notices!!

A purebred dog will cost less than a oodley thing, and there will be proof of parentage. The oodley thing MAY be a cavalier x poodle, or it may not be -- who is to know for sure?

Why would anyone buy a car chucked together by the would be unqualified mechanic down the road from bits of different cars in his back yard, - when they could have a nice Mercedes Benz for LESS. Makes NO sense.

But, if your friend has ALL the facts, and that is what she wants, she will get that, and good luck. In the end, the most important thing is that we get the dog which suits us - whatever that may be.

As the numbers of purebred dogs continue to decline, and the number of pet pups increases, more and more people will buy oodleys and other x breds, and rather than criticise them, I think we would do better to educate pet buyers in what to look for.

There were some Cavoodle x Maltese for $1800 in a petshop I saw today. So, mongs, Cavalier, Poodle Maltese maybe - no proof of anything. huge Maltese pups too - if they were purebred Maltese I'll eat my Akubura

Excellent post and fab advice.

I had a friend who recently purchased a pug/griffon mix.

I suggested to her to get either a pug or a griffon but she was very dead set on the mix as she "liked the look" of a few she had seen online.

Anyway, after backward and forwarding about pures and DDs, I eventually changed tactics and, after doing some research myself, advised her on instead genetic issues with the breeds and to ask if the breeder had done health cecks on the parents and other various bits and bobs like the fact that if the breeder didnt perform any then she may be in for a shock later....and that she may not either etc etc.

Anyway, she went ahead and got their wee girl, who I must say is just gorgeous...what is funny though is that the wee thing looks almost exactly like a pug except with slightly different ears and a slightly finer build LMAO

They may as well have just got a pug LOL

[Elfin]

Ask her if she would like a blind dog by the time its 6 years old? We see so many oodles with PRA. Reputable breeders of purebred dogs DNA test for it, puppy farmers don't.

Not advocating cross breeding but I am one that likes advocating the truth. Plenty of purebred poodles with PRA from reg. breeders. Not all reg. breeders conduct health tests.

Moselle, after just over 20 years of working for a veterinary ophthalmologist, I am delighted to tell you that you are wrong.

I could count on one hand the pedigreed Poodles with PRA that we have seen over the years (and certainly NONE in the last 5 or so years) due to the hard work and diligence of Poodle breeders.

We would diagnose 4-5 Oodles PER WEEK with PRA.

So soz, love. There is no "plenty" about it.

And that is the truth advocated. :D

[Jed]

Thanks - Lanabanana, a horrible and likely to fail mix. the difference between a good pug with no health issues and not so good is a matter of mm - I wouln't dream of trying to breed pugs, I don't have enough knowledge.

Yet people with almost no knowledge mate together dogs with similar problems, knowng what they do, so potential problems are going to be huge. 3mm less width in nose, 2mm shorter, and there's a dog with chronic airways obstructions. It's hard enogh to get it right with a purebred dog, yet they are putting two quite similar breeds wil similar tiny tolerances between ok and in deep trouble.

So some owners will have a dog who is born with breathing or eye or nose difficulty, but neither they nor the potential owner realises at the time that the cute pup has a huge problem which will surface in adulthool.

One of the reasons GOOD breeders never cross two breeds is because they understand the potential problems and would never breed them. Yet people who hardly know what brachycephalic means are quite happy to be irresponsibly throwing griffons, pugs, cavaliers togethers

And why would they care? As soon as the pet shop sels it, it is not their responsibility.

Oh My

[poodlefan]

Moselle, after just over 20 years of working for a veterinary ophthalmologist, I am delighted to tell you that you are wrong.

I could count on one hand the pedigreed Poodles with PRA that we have seen over the years (and certainly NONE in the last 5 or so years) due to the hard work and diligence of Poodle breeders.

Thanks Elfin. That was my feel for where ANKC registered poodles were at but I couldn't provide the facts to support it.

I don't know a breeder that hasn't tested. Many are now in the happy position of producing pups clear by parentage.