Agressive Puppies

[Ons]

my friend went to puppy school last night at the vets. she is an experienced dog owner, took her own rottweiler (sp? ) puppy who she is going to show and took her only for socialisation

She told me that there were about six dogs there. A swf bought from a petshop not only bit it's owner (and not puppy play bite) but started a fight with a blue cattle dog pup who started fighting back The blue cattle dog's mum apparently was in tears as she couldn't control the pup and she had young kids too

to me that is just horrifying that pups would behave like that. And I also wonder the future of these pups if they are aggressive at a young age

sensibly my friend says she is not taking her pup back, that's not the kind of socialisation she wants for her. And she said that the vet nurses who were running the course did nothing to help when the pups were fighting

[poodlefan]

to me that is just horrifying that pups would behave like that. And I also wonder the future of these pups if they are aggressive at a young age

To me it's horrifying that a puppy preschool trainer allowed it to happen.

Puppies get in scuffles involving snapping and screaming all the time. If neither pup ended up with holes, I'd be loathe to label either as "aggressive" so young.

Under what circumstances did the SWF's owner get bitten?

[Ons]

picking up puppy, owner got bitten

i think this was past the normal puppy scuffle from my friend's account. That's why it horrified her and horrified me as well when she told me but i don't think there were holes in pups, wonder if there teeth would be strong enough to put holes in each other, ghastly thought!

[poodlefan]

picking up puppy, owner got bitten

i think this was past the normal puppy scuffle from my friend's account. That's why it horrified her and horrified me as well when she told me but i don't think there were holes in pups, wonder if there teeth would be strong enough to put holes in each other, ghastly thought!

If they're strong enough to puncture human skin, they're strong enough to puncture one another. Picking a snapping pup out of a scuffle is a recipe for a bite - and again not necessarily enough to label a dog 'aggressive'.

ETA: My youngest poodle and his sister used to get in scuffles so vocal you'd swear they were killing one another. Never a mark on either of them.

Edited October 7, 2010 by poodlefan

[Cosmolo]

What PF said. I have had very reactive pups in many pre schools and never have i had an owner bitten or a fight..

[Dee_al]

a mate of mine just finished puppy school at her local vet and she told me there was a 12 week old red staffy pup there that was aggressive, growling and biting all the other puppys, going for them if they came near her. I was shocked when i heard about it, its quite sad really

My 14 week old staffy had hes first interactions (except for the 2 dogs he lives with) last saturday. He loved it! I kept him away from all dogs except our other 2 until he was fully vaccinated incase of disease etc and seeing as though we live abou half an hour out of town he didnt even see them around, but he was still far from aggressive and he was surronded by heaps of dogs and puppies, all of which were bigger then him.

Breeding and handling definatly play a very big role in puppies behaviour i believe.

[poodlefan]

a mate of mine just finished puppy school at her local vet and she told me there was a 12 week old red staffy pup there that was aggressive, growling and biting all the other puppys, going for them if they came near her. I was shocked when i heard about it, its quite sad really

I'll ask the same question - how many puppies ended up with holes?

What's been described can be standard play behaviour for some pups - especially Staffords

Edited October 7, 2010 by poodlefan

[Dee_al]

if the red pup got a hold of a pup she would leave puncture marks, she would grab hold and not let go.

[poodlefan]

if the red pup got a hold of a pup she would leave puncture marks, she would grab hold and not let go.

So she was actually biting through skin? Not good

[Dee_al]

yeahs she was, she was grabbing hold whever she could and shaking her head. They would have to pry open her jaw for her to let go.

[dancinbcs]

yeahs she was, she was grabbing hold whever she could and shaking her head. They would have to pry open her jaw for her to let go.

And the puppy pre-school allowed her to do it. A puppy with that temperament at that age should be pts. Yes, very aggressive puppies do exist and they are just a disaster waiting to happen. Some friends once had the local very agressive mongrel terrier cross, jump a 7 foot fence to mate their just mated bitch. Hoping at least some of the puppies would be by the very old stud dog they had used, they allowed the pregnancy to continue with the intention of DNA testing. While waiting for the DNA results the puppies (who did not look quite like pure breds) became so aggressive by 3-4 weeks that the bitch wanted nothing to do with them. After confering with a very experienced trainer they had the whole litter pts due to the aggressive nature of the puppies. The DNA later confirmed they were all by the crossbred dog. The breeders felt that they were not suitable temperaments to find homes for. I saw the litter and the aggression between them and when you handled them was unbelievable in such tiny puppies.

Some of the people who run these puppy pre-schools ought to be shot. They know nothing about dog behaviour and create far more problems than the puppies would ever have had. How is allowing one puppy to terrorise another going to teach either of them anything positive? Whether a puppy is genuinely aggressive or just a dominant bully, it should never be allowed to intimidate another puppy.

The puppy pre-school I use does not ever allow puppies off lead and is simply there to teach the puppies to behave in the presence of others. No chance for any puppy to intimidate another. Any acting in an intimidating manner are moved further away so they don't upset any of the others.

[my_sibe_owns_me]

Depends on the puppy. I work with puppies all the time. I see GREAT puppies turn into evil monsters and I see evil puppies turn into angels.

First you HAVE to be able to read your dog. Those people should prob look elsewhere if the instructors are not being informative.

You have to know if your puppy is afraid. Letting a fear bitter stay in a situation that causes it to snap could result in a fight. Dogs will even fight just to end a fight. Normally lots of noise with no damage. But if a fear bitter lashes out at a puppy who is a pest then the pest could get mad and attack the fear bitter and cause a fight. Which will only set both puppies back in most cases. If the puppy is lashing out in fear then things need to go slower and when the puppy is stressed it needs to be removed from the situation or given a command to remove itself from the situation.

If the puppy is a pest and gets in fights because other puppies tell it off and it doesnt like it then that puppy needs to start learning boundaries and commands need to be given. Sometimes all it takes is another dog really telling them off. Some dogs still dont even get that.

There could have been a MILLION! reasons for that fight and none of it adding up to pure aggression. The staff should have been proactive or at the VERY LEST! reactive to the fight and addressed/informed the owners of the issue/s. If someone KNOWS their dog then they should be able to alter the way the puppy acts/responds to things.

[my_sibe_owns_me]

Also as for puppies being "born" aggressive a lot of it has to do with how much the mother did or didnt do with the puppies (in some cases). I know of a bitch that was bred too young and she was very rough with her puppies. When she would play with them she would play too hard and they would scream. (Why the puppies werent taken away and why the bitch was bred so young is a totally different story)The puppies adapted to their situation and where MEAN puppies. I highly doubt they where born aggressive but deferentially something they where tough.

Edited October 7, 2010 by my_sibe_owns_me

[Souff]

if the red pup got a hold of a pup she would leave puncture marks, she would grab hold and not let go.

So she was actually biting through skin? Not good

Little feral .... wish I could have been there.

It seems that neither the owner or the puppy trainer had their very big growly voice with them

Another cute little fluffy that will probably never hear the word "No" or "Leave" or ever hear a sharp growly voice to correct her.

Another one that knows it can sink the teeth in and get away with it.

Well, I wont chuck out those pint-sized nylon muzzles after all, might need em again by the sounds of this.

Souff

[W Sibs]

it's horrible that the "teachers/instructors" did nothing to stop it before it went that far that someone got bitten.

[Monah]

Also as for puppies being "born" aggressive a lot of it has to do with how much the mother did or didnt do with the puppies (in some cases). I know of a bitch that was bred too young and she was very rough with her puppies. When she would play with them she would play too hard and they would scream. (Why the puppies werent taken away and why the bitch was bred so young is a totally different story)The puppies adapted to their situation and where MEAN puppies. I highly doubt they where born aggressive but deferentially something they where tough.

Very true, lots of studies have been done on this going back as far as the 1950's.

Of course, genetics can also be part of it.

Puppy pre schools are such a recent 'invention'. Before parvo we could take our young puppies out to general obedience for young pups where there was plenty of room and no 'in your face stuff'. Many puppies play very rough, others may not realise it's play. I'm not a fan of them.

Edited October 8, 2010 by Monah

[Adza]

I believe some puppy schools are great. Just finished mine and no problems they knew everything about behaviour yes we did have socialisation but they were quick to stop certain behaviours by understanding whats going on. 1 pup was so afraid to mingle and after the last class, she had a ball it was amazing to see the transformation if you do things properly.

Then again all the pups were great, did the normal play and not over the top.

I never thought puppy school at the vets was going to be as professional as the one I went to but that's me. I'm sure there would be good ones out there..