superminty Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 (edited) So, I am drafting a letter to the local paper about the scourge of off lead dogs on the streets in my area as I am sick to death of it...but anyway... What is the legal position if your dog is on lead, is approached by a dog that is off lead in an on lead area, and your dog bites/harms the off lead dog in any way? In addition, is there any legal basis to say that if the other dog (the off lead one) retaliates, their owner is liable for any ensuing vet bills for your dog? Have had a look through the various animal acts, but I am thinking it is more likely to be a common law basis, if anything. I vaguely recall people mentioning that some councils say they won't hold you at fault if your dog is on lead and the other off lead illegally, but I want hard evidence Edited October 6, 2010 by superminty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superminty Posted October 7, 2010 Author Share Posted October 7, 2010 No thoughts on this? No-one has ever spoken to their council about this issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Our council here has strict bylaws about off leash and on leash areas as well as the length of the leash etc. It is expected that all complaints go through them in the first instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skruffy n Flea Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 that's a tuff one superminty and i recommend you contact your local member; they'd have to realise a harsh reality if they failed to follow that up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 I am not a legal person but I'm pretty sure that, if the off leash dog is in an on leash area the person "walking the off leash dog (or the owner if no one is present) will be the ones held responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 SM - My understanding is that generally speaking, favour will be given to the on-lead dog. I doubt very much that it is written in ink (eg "the dog that is on-lead will always win out in a court of law -vs- an off lead dog") because if push was to become shove, I think any extreme merits of the situation may be taken into account. But, as I mention, I think the general consensus is that the on-lead would be favoured over the off-lead. I'm not a legal eagle and relate only what I have heard/been told in the past. I do believe it is a Council Level "rule". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 (edited) SM - My understanding is that generally speaking, favour will be given to the on-lead dog. I doubt very much that it is written in ink (eg "the dog that is on-lead will always win out in a court of law -vs- an off lead dog") because if push was to become shove, I think any extreme merits of the situation may be taken into account. But, as I mention, I think the general consensus is that the on-lead would be favoured over the off-lead.I'm not a legal eagle and relate only what I have heard/been told in the past. I do believe it is a Council Level "rule". Agreed. An on lead dog is under effective control unless the lead is long and the owner isn't paying attention to what it does. An off lead dog is not under effective control if it makes an unwanted approach to any person or animal and the owner is unable to prevent this by calling it back. Doesn't matter if it is an on lead or off lead area. No dog has the right to make an uninvited approach. Edited October 7, 2010 by dancinbcs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Most lawyers here would advise: * free legal advice is pretty much worth what you pay for it. * the devil in scenarios like this is in the detail. The classic legal response to this question would be "it depends". * much will depend on the law where the incident occurs and on the severity of the responses by the dogs. Breaking the lead and killing a dog that approached for a sniff (as has happened) might see the owner of the onlead dog liable. Who knows? My advice would be to leave legal issues out of your letter to the paper. Give one example and there will always be another case that overturns it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 If the on lead dog is under "effective control", then surely it would follow that it should not be the one to make the first aggressive move, yes? If the on lead dog bites the off lead dog, and a fight ensues where one or both dogs are in need of veterinary attention, then it would probably be up to eyewitness accounts of the incident that will swing the "fault" one way or the other. I own larger breed dogs - I have been in situations where an off lead dog has approached with intent, and my dogs take their lead from ME, not the other dog's antics. that is what I take the meaning of "effective control" to be - not just the fact that my dog is on a lead... I've seen plenty of on lead dogs who were clearly NOT under "effective control" by the people at the other end of those leads... *grin* T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 a girl friend of mine was walking her dogs on lead to the park in the Port Melb area recently. A big dog rushed them and although didn't attack he did frighten dogs and owner. She spoke to the loose dogs owner and he said it was her fault for being afraid and she would've passed it on to her dogs. She reported him cause she knew where he lived and he was fined purely on her say so. I was very surprised that was all it took. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 It will depend on the detail of your State legislation, rather than any council regs. In NSW it's the Companion Animals Act (1998)... Hang on... Right - have run off and looked. It is the Domestic Animals Act 1994. See here for a pdf or word version: http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/ You should be looking at Part 3 - Control of dogs and cats. Section 29 is about offences and liabilities with regard to dog attacks. Bear in mind though, that these are offences, which have to be proven beyond reasonable doubt to be prosecuted. Dog attacks and wandering dogs etc can also become the subject of civil lawsuits, which have a different burden of proof - balance of probability - so can be easier to prove and have a wider scope than criminal matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 This has happened to me - my dog on lead, other dog off lead and no owner present (dog wandering). Other dog attacked mine and mine sustained large injuries (several thousand $ worth). Other owner was liable, agreed to pay but I had problems getting the money off them. Ended up taking them to small claims court to get the money (which I did in the end). The one that was attacked was already aggressive towards other dogs, did not harm the off lead dog (off lead dog a bull breed and much larger and stronger than she is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee_al Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 i had this discussion with my council one time before because the same lady would walk her dog offlead everyday and it would always come running up to me and Kane and i was worried about Kane attacking this dog. I was told that if my dog attacked the off lead dog, i wouldnt be held accountable because the other dog must be restrained or under command while out walking in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanabanana Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 i had this discussion with my council one time before because the same lady would walk her dog offlead everyday and it would always come running up to me and Kane and i was worried about Kane attacking this dog. I was told that if my dog attacked the off lead dog, i wouldnt be held accountable because the other dog must be restrained or under command while out walking in public. Thats what I was thinking...you arent meant to be out walking dogs round the streets without leads so surely it would automatically be the off lead dog owners responsibility. Its a bit like driving an unregistered car, if you are in an accident, itd be your fault no matter what because you shouldnt have even been on the road int he first place (I am not sure if it works like that in Oz but does in NZ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiechick Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Maybe speak to Tracey about it if you haven't already. She might have dealt with something similar or at the least she would know the local laws in regard to animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superminty Posted October 7, 2010 Author Share Posted October 7, 2010 Thanks all for your replies. The Domestic Animals Act in Vic doesn't even require a dog to be on lead, unless it is a greyhound or a restricted/dangerous dog - the on lead requirements are council regs. Think I will leave that issue out - good advice poodlefan. I will be contacting my local council to see whether I can get something in writing (huh, not likely) but wanted to see what the DOL brains trust had to say first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShesaLikeableBiBear Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 (edited) You should be able to find the information you are after on your Council's website. Here is ours: http://www.moretonbay.qld.gov.au/living.aspx?id=9043 PS Look under Liability. Edited October 7, 2010 by Hesapandabear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Personally if I thought my dog was going to chomp another dog and was capable of doing damage then I would muzzle my dog for its own safety. Yes I know it isn't even slightly fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmandaJ Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 The parts of this are covered under civil law and criminal law. Criminal Law (Breach of Law/Regulations) Where a law is broken (that's the dog being off leash) then the council/controlling body would/should fine the owner of the animal off leash (the police could even be able to lay criminal charges in the event of a serious incident). Civil Law (damages) Recovery of costs where your dog is attacked and injured is covered by civil law and it's up to you to take legal action for recovery of costs. Your recovery claim is easier to argue given that the defendant was in breach of the law. Legal Aid can advise on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bundyburger Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 (edited) I was wondering about this too. I was walking my boy on leash the other night and a dog rushed out of its property over the other side of the road. My boy is friendly but what would've happened if he didn't take kindly to being rushed from behind and jumped on? When the owners were asked to call their dog back they just asked "why" errr because you weren't paying one iota of attention and didn't have control over your dog until I yelled at you... They had to call three times before he went back over the road. Same people proceeded to walk their dog to the park minus a lead with the dog being nearly a full block in front.. effective control? I think not! If their dog rushes mine again I'll be reporting them, because what if it was someone else, or a child? My dog would never do anything (he purely wanted to play!) but I would like to walk around the neighbourhood without worrying about rushing dogs no matter whether they are friendly or not. I know if I'd been walking my bitch, it would've been a different scenario. She's fine with dogs face to face and slow introductions but not a dog rushing from behind like this one did. I walk her on leash and if I see a dog we swap sides of the road. She doesn't need muzzling for that. Edited October 8, 2010 by Bundy's Mum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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