Cesar Milan Discussion

[Busterdog]

The other aspect that i like about Ceasaer, is that he teaches people animal, dog, name. That the dog IS NOT a furry person & to stop treating them like that. Very similar to Dr Phil too, in the respect of STOP feeling sorry for your dog (if it has been abuse etc) & to move on, yes what happened in the past is horrible but it was in the past now move forward to the present/future.

Actually I think it is animal/species/breed/name that he teaches.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I think some of Cesar's stuff is ok like the approach and retreat repeat from something the dog gets stressed or excited about.

But I think all his alpha stuff is a bit deluded.

I also hate the "alpha roll", and I see people with no idea using it, and it usually makes things worse. Cesar can get away with it because he does read a dog very well but most amateurs do not.

I also think a lot of Cesar's techniques are for extremely aggressive dogs and "should not be tried at home" but I see people who have no idea how to read their dog, in our local park, trying those methods on dogs that don't need them, and it makes the dog worse.

I like that he does seem to successfully rehabilitate some extreme dogs, but I don't think people at home should be copying his methods from the telly.

PDF from the american vets against Dominance/alpha

http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/ima...20statement.pdf

Dog star daily article against it.

http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/alpha-fallacy

Edited October 7, 2010 by Mrs Rusty Bucket

[leopuppy04]

I think some of his methods are ok and even common sense, but I also think some of his methods are out right dangerous and stupid. Have you seen how often he gets bitten? I would never use confrontational methods as a way of dealing with aggression. Some of the things I've seen him do to dogs makes me feel quite sick.

Agree with huski. Some of his stuff is fine - common sense stuff... But the rest of it is downright scary.

I've seen him get bitten countless times, wrestle a dog to the ground to stop it's dog aggression and also strangle a dog (with the use of the lead) to deal with aggression issues. He makes me sick to my stomach. Worse part is that pet owners try his methods. If you have to put a "do not try this at home" disclaimer then maybe rethink your methods....

Oh and not everything is centered around dominance..... light chasing is not a dog being dominant as long as a mound of other stuff he says.

BL is also right.... He's set the dog training world back 50years... he reminds me of trainers who used to say that digging holes was 'dominance' and would fill it with water and then shove their dogs head in it....

http://drsophiayin.com/philosophy/dominance/

more reason as to why I don't like Cesar....

Edited October 7, 2010 by leopuppy04

[newfsie]

I agree with what he does. As for choking, dog has an option - continue your behaviour and you get a consequence. If the dog calms down it stops. The options are in the dogs hands. He deals with a lot of large, strong dogs who are past the point of playing nice. Many of them are fix or go for a one way trip to the vet.

Not every dog can be fixed with cuddles and food.

I like most of his ideas, but wish there was a way to communicate with the average person that the cases he is dealing with are generally extreme and what he does in those extreme cases would be totally unnecessary for the average pet dogs.

what, like on every episode it is written do not try this at home without a professional?

Yes I would not have been able to bring my 14 month 50kg people and dog aggressive recue newfie around with just food and cuddles.

She needed to know the rules.......

[Rysup]

Aside from being really rather easy on the eye and with a sexy smile......Cesar is very entertaining. I certainly dont watch him so I can learn how to control my dogs. Sure, some of his methodology gets incorporated into my daily life, but on the whole I do things my way. Same can be said from the various dog trainers I have worked with over the years. You take a little from what you see and learn and adapt it to what suits you.

It never ceases to amaze me how much hatred one person can bring from some dog people though. He is a professional, and what he does has its place. No different to anyone else. I can't stand watching Victoria Stillwell, but I dont go about saying how much I hate her or what she does. I take little bits and use it to my advantage. She also has her place in the world.

If people are stupid enough to try some of his extreme methods without professional help then they probably deserve to get bitten.

[Kavik]

Aside from being really rather easy on the eye and with a sexy smile......Cesar is very entertaining. I certainly dont watch him so I can learn how to control my dogs. Sure, some of his methodology gets incorporated into my daily life, but on the whole I do things my way. Same can be said from the various dog trainers I have worked with over the years. You take a little from what you see and learn and adapt it to what suits you.

It never ceases to amaze me how much hatred one person can bring from some dog people though. He is a professional, and what he does has its place. No different to anyone else. I can't stand watching Victoria Stillwell, but I dont go about saying how much I hate her or what she does. I take little bits and use it to my advantage. She also has her place in the world.

If people are stupid enough to try some of his extreme methods without professional help then they probably deserve to get bitten.

Well the other week ON THIS FORUM we had someone suggest they string the dog up for aggression towards other dogs :D so obviously the call for professional help for using these methods doesn't get through to everyone!

[huski]

Yes I would not have been able to bring my 14 month 50kg people and dog aggressive recue newfie around with just food and cuddles.

She needed to know the rules.......

Why the assumption that it's either alpha roll and choke your dog until it gives up, or food and cuddles? Who here is saying that dogs shouldn't learn the rules? Why the insinuation that if you use food or praise with aggressive dogs you aren't also able to implementing boundaries or rules? I have no problem with giving corrections, using tools like prongs or e-collars etc or giving dog boundaries but some of the things Cesar does makes me feel quite ill.

Besides, many people would not be strong enough to choke or alpha roll a 50kg aggressive newfie until it gave up (or just plain ran out of breath).

ETA: I find it amusing that anyone who doesn't 110% support Cesar is lumped into the new age food and cuddles, never ever punish your dog crowd.

Edited October 7, 2010 by huski

[Rysup]

Nothing ever does though, does it.

People will always try and do it on their own at first. Until they wake up and realise its beyond they abilities.

[Kavik]

Yes I would not have been able to bring my 14 month 50kg people and dog aggressive recue newfie around with just food and cuddles.

She needed to know the rules.......

Why the assumption that it's either alpha roll and choke your dog until it gives up, or food and cuddles? Who here is saying that dogs shouldn't learn the rules? Why the insinuation that if you use food or praise with aggressive dogs you aren't also able to implementing boundaries or rules? I have no problem with giving corrections, using tools like prongs or e-collars etc or giving dog boundaries but some of the things Cesar does makes me feel quite ill.

Besides, many people would not be strong enough to choke or alpha roll a 50kg aggressive newfie until it gave up (or just plain ran out of breath).

No way would I want to try to string up a 50kg aggressive dog - that is more than I weigh :D

[leopuppy04]

Yes I would not have been able to bring my 14 month 50kg people and dog aggressive recue newfie around with just food and cuddles.

She needed to know the rules.......

Why the assumption that it's either alpha roll and choke your dog until it gives up, or food and cuddles? Who here is saying that dogs shouldn't learn the rules? Why the insinuation that if you use food or praise with aggressive dogs you aren't also able to implementing boundaries or rules? I have no problem with giving corrections, using tools like prongs or e-collars etc or giving dog boundaries but some of the things Cesar does makes me feel quite ill.

Besides, many people would not be strong enough to choke or alpha roll a 50kg aggressive newfie until it gave up (or just plain ran out of breath).

ETA: I find it amusing that anyone who doesn't 110% support Cesar is lumped into the new age food and cuddles, never ever punish your dog crowd.

Lol me too huski!!

[sas]

I don't mind Ceasar but I think it's imporant to remember there isn't one training method per dog and that's highlighted with my current foster dog who was trained and diciplined in her previous home with Ceasar methods and she's an Anxious mess but is blossoming with us.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

ETA: I find it amusing that anyone who doesn't 110% support Cesar is lumped into the new age food and cuddles, never ever punish your dog crowd.

Nothing wrong with food and cuddles either - mine get them, they just don't get them on their terms all the time which I think is the point Milan makes about dogs being dogs anyway.

Positive doesn't mean permissive. Results speak for themselves too. Daisy is a pretty awesome ambassador for hound training.

[Lab_Rat]

I have only seen a couple of Caesars programs, from very early on. So I cant really comment on seeing his methods or many of them. I do know his "Tssssst" works well on my b.i.ls little smarty pants dog!! Puts him where he is supposed to be without any fuss.

I have read his books which I have enjoyed.

I like and agree with his philosophy of Exercise, Discipline and Affection (although its not always followed that way in our house :D ).

I like his idea of being a Calm-Assertive Leader (again, not always followed in this house )....But we do try!

To me there should be two parts to Caesars work & shows. The preventative training with the use of his philosophies, and the "remedies" that should only be "administered by a professional".........or at least by someone that knows dogs and knows what the hell they are doing!!

Of the shows of his I have seen, he makes the things he does look very easy, but then so does any trainer that has worked with lots of dogs for a long time that is a Natural!! My dogs breeder is another example - he is a calm, assertive leader and has no troubles working with and gaining the respect of the dogs he works with. I wish it came to me that easy..... ;)

[Aidan3]

Putting aside any argument about his methods, I'm just honestly not that impressed with what he actually does. Turn the sound off so you don't get all the dialogue and it's often a bit of a non-event, no evidence that anything has really changed. I guess I've just seen it all before, a snap-shot never gives a good picture and I'm more interested in results demonstrated over time.

Trainers are going to get bitten, they are in a high risk position, but it shouldn't happen regularly and it certainly shouldn't happen because you just snuck in a sly kick while a dog was already aroused. Clients should certainly never get bitten as a direct result of something you have done, I would be embarassed by that.

[charley101]

http://drsophiayin.com/philosophy/dominance/

more reason as to why I don't like Cesar....

Great link Leopuppy04 :D

[aussielover]

Putting aside any argument about his methods, I'm just honestly not that impressed with what he actually does. Turn the sound off so you don't get all the dialogue and it's often a bit of a non-event, no evidence that anything has really changed. I guess I've just seen it all before, a snap-shot never gives a good picture and I'm more interested in results demonstrated over time.

Trainers are going to get bitten, they are in a high risk position, but it shouldn't happen regularly and it certainly shouldn't happen because you just snuck in a sly kick while a dog was already aroused. Clients should certainly never get bitten as a direct result of something you have done, I would be embarassed by that.

didn't he once use a shock collar on a dog and it turned around and bit the owner :D

In the Shadow video (which im sure you have all seen) where he strangles the dog into "submission", he actually kicks the dog which provokes it into attacking him (imo)

you can see at 2:10 and also again at 2:54 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh9YOyM2TAk

At the end, you can see the dog had urinated.

I also find it scary that at the end the owners were relieved that it was a dominace issue not an aggression issue????? Dominance and aggression are not mutually exclusive... (if there even was a dominance problem in the first place).

The only thing in that episode i agreed with was getting rid of the prong collar because the owners were clearly not using it effectively or it was wrong tool for the situation.

Although This video

actually seems quite sensible!

Edited October 7, 2010 by aussielover

[Roguedog]

I love cesar but each to their own! thats why there are so many different methods out there, each person and each dog is different.... doesnt mean we should "internet bash" those whose methods dont suit you or your dog!

[huski]

I didnt say dominant dog collars are the only option. They are one and they work quite effectively especially in shutting down an explosive reaction. As for the alpha roll he doesnt do it with all dogs.

But you did say choking a dog was an appropriate training method, and then went on to say;

Not every dog can be fixed with cuddles and food.

No one has implied such a thing Why act like there are only two options, there are many ways to train aggressive dogs, why assume that if people don't agree with choking a dog until it gives up (because it's run out of air) that they must therefore feel training dogs with "cuddles and food" is the only appropriate option?

Edited October 7, 2010 by huski

[Aidan3]

... doesnt mean we should "internet bash" those whose methods dont suit you or your dog!

The question was raised "Do you agree with Cesars training/rehabilitation methods?" It would have been a bit lop-sided if only those who do had responded

[poodlefan]

I love cesar but each to their own! thats why there are so many different methods out there, each person and each dog is different.... doesnt mean we should "internet bash" those whose methods dont suit you or your dog!

Not every one who disagrees with Cesar's methods has 'bashed' them.

Like he'd care anyway - as Liberace once put it, he'd be crying all the way to the bank.