Cesar Milan Discussion

[sebastion 2]

I haven't seen a lot of Ceaser but I have read some of his books and seen some clips.

But like all things in life I think moderation is the key add into that some commonsense.

which I am the first to admit is sadly lacking in todays society. I have found some of his

techniques useful with our rescue dogs but I am most definately not impressed with his

harsher techniques. I also think that not all dogs respond to that same treatment either.

[Tapferhund]

I agree with what he does. As for choking, dog has an option - continue your behaviour and you get a consequence. If the dog calms down it stops. The options are in the dogs hands. He deals with a lot of large, strong dogs who are past the point of playing nice. Many of them are fix or go for a one way trip to the vet.

Not every dog can be fixed with cuddles and food.

Spot on Nekhbet and I totally agree !

IMO the man is brilliant , he knows exactly what he is doing and has helped literally thousands of dogs from certain death.

Its just a pity there are so many out there who have such closed minds to training and training methods...they can't see that fact.

[huski]

IMO the man is brilliant , he knows exactly what he is doing and has helped literally thousands of dogs from certain death.

Its just a pity there are so many out there who have such closed minds to training and training methods...they can't see that fact.

I don't think Cesar is all bad, but that doesn't mean that if I don't think he's brilliant that I can't "see the fact" - what fact? That he gets bitten all the time when using confrontational methods with aggressive dogs? That one way of dealing with aggressive dogs is to choke them until they almost pass out? Not as a safety matter but as a training method? There are MANY trainers out there who have stopped large number of dogs from being PTS without using the confrontational methods Cesar uses. Are they just as "brilliant"?

I would go OFF if ANYONE touched my dogs the way I've seen Cesar handle some of the dogs on his TV show.

[m-j]

I was reading somewhere that he has enlisted the help of Ian Dunbar, Bob Bailey two of the names I remember for a book or something???

cheers

M-J

[Cosmolo]

I have alot of conflict about Caesar.. On the one hand i think promoting exercise and training generally is a good thing. On the other hand, i am seeing dogs being labelled as dominant (through Caesar definitions) by owners and owners attempting Caesar like techniques. At best they do it clumsily and the dog doesn't care, at worst, they get bitten or traumatise the dog. This isn't limited to Caesar though- i have heard many disturbing stories about advice from other trainers- the difference is that Caesar can be so far reaching due to his profile.

There is alot of area in between cuddles and food and cutting a dogs air supply- they aren't the only two options. I think we need to start recognising the realities of things like owner limitations as well-most people cannot replicate what they see and/ or are even trained to do. So we need to be careful about the techniques we put out there- regardless of whether a dog trainer can do them effectively to benefit the dog. The question is- can the owner?

[huski]

I have alot of conflict about Caesar.. On the one hand i think promoting exercise and training generally is a good thing. On the other hand, i am seeing dogs being labelled as dominant (through Caesar definitions) by owners and owners attempting Caesar like techniques. At best they do it clumsily and the dog doesn't care, at worst, they get bitten or traumatise the dog. This isn't limited to Caesar though- i have heard many disturbing stories about advice from other trainers- the difference is that Caesar can be so far reaching due to his profile.

There is alot of area in between cuddles and food and cutting a dogs air supply- they aren't the only two options. I think we need to start recognising the realities of things like owner limitations as well-most people cannot replicate what they see and/ or are even trained to do. So we need to be careful about the techniques we put out there- regardless of whether a dog trainer can do them effectively to benefit the dog. The question is- can the owner?

Totally agree Cos.

I've seen people label insecure and fearful dogs as dominant and try to handle them how Cesar suggests and it does nothing to benefit the dog. That's not Cesar's fault directly but IMO there are flaws in his training methodology.

[Tay.]

I do watch his show sometimes, I guess I agree with SOME of the things he does, but the rest of it is just plain weird. Most of the time it just seems like the dog doesn't get any praise at all, it's just a correction for doing something wrong, but do something right, the only reward is not getting another weird correction.

One episode there was a dog who was extremely scared to go walking in the city (which is where they lived). Cesar's idea to fix this was to tie the end of the dog's tail to the leash (with the other end clipped to his collar), so his tail was high in the air as he walked. I really don't see how this worked! Another episode he was trying to 'train' a dog to like swimming in the pool, solution? Force her into the pool. Just saying, that would scare my dog even more...

[charley101]

I wish Victoria Stilwell (its me or the dog) had more of a tv presence in Australia so owners could at least see it from the positive side as well. Her ways wont get the owner bitten and the dog might even enjoy being trained (unlike Caesars dogs)

[Gogee]

I wish Victoria Stilwell (its me or the dog) had more of a tv presence in Australia so owners could at least see it from the positive side as well. Her ways wont get the owner bitten and the dog might even enjoy being trained (unlike Caesars dogs)

charley 101, I agree that it would be brilliant if there were some other representations of professional behaviourists/trainers on telly here to show the public some alternative methods as well.

Witnessing applied animal behaviourists and trainers with qualifications and experience do their stuff would be fantastic.....a Patricia McConnell show would be awesome! :D

[charley101]

charley 101, I agree that it would be brilliant if there were some other representations of professional behaviourists/trainers on telly here to show the public some alternative methods as well.

Witnessing applied animal behaviourists and trainers with qualifications and experience do their stuff would be fantastic.....a Patricia McConnell show would be awesome!

We have got Doctor Harry :D

[The Ark]

I love Cesar - watch every week and went to see him live in Sydney last year.

I think I'm smart enough to realise that I can't necessarily do everything that he does, and have been watching long enough to see that he doesn't ALWAYS claim "problem" dogs are dominant. He recognises fear and other causes of instability and has different methods for dealing with those issues.

I also think he has done an immense amount of good for pitbulls and other misunderstood breeds.

[Aussienot]

I was talking to someone about Cesar's methods, and mentioned a criticism on how every fearful dog on the show was treated with flooding and it always worked. Suddenly the penny dropped in my head, and I realised that of course he only showed the flooding successes. When it works, it is quick and dramatic - ie, good TV. Gradual desensitizing is a slow process, and boring as bat poo to watch. I am sure that off camera he used other methods. I bet he has a fair few flooding failures that never get shown, too.

World's greatest trainer? No. Complete evil? No. Somewhere in the middle. What he does really well is communicate to the average pet owner in simple messages. He's done more to get dogs out of back yards on walks than any other person I can think of. He has popularised having and enforcing rules. He has helped people understand their dog better, and for that alone I think he's good for pet owners.

[Quickasyoucan]

Where's Kelpie-i, she would want another option on the poll "Don't care about his training methods but think he is easy on the eye"

Seriously I agree with what others have said, have read some of his books and the philosophy is good, just some of the hands on methods can be questionable.

But I do think the "don't try this at home method" can be extended to so many shows. Someone was telling me they had to stop their child watching "man vs wild" as he kept trying to leap off things! It is TV after all.

I do believe he is in it for the dogs...

And I do want to know why his marriage broke down

[poodlefan]

I think if people read Cesar's basic message and apply it to their own dogs, then it can only be a good thing:

* Dogs are not children

* They need boundaries

* They need exercise and training.

I'm not fan of the "lion taming" techniques or the confrontational style he applies to dog aggression. He's prepared to accept bites as a biproduct of what he does - a bite for a pet owner from their dog often results in a one way trip to the vet.

For raising the profile of the importance of the owner's role in having a well mannered pet - full marks.

For the rest... not a fan.

Edited October 6, 2010 by poodlefan

[KumaAkita]

I am also a Dog Whisperer watcher and have IQ'd it. While I don't necessarily agree with all his techniques, there are some that do strike a cord with me. When the OH and I watch it, the episode can often spark a lightbulb moment and remind us that we have to be consistent with Kuma. Not that we have to alpha-roll him or anything like that, but we have to maintain our rules, each and every time. We'll often watch an episode and afterwards say "we need to remember that Kuma is not allowed on the carpet at all, not just sometimes" or something like that.

As the seasons have gone on, he has changed his focus from only on the dogs to be a little more on people. Sure, it makes great TV to help a woman who couldn't walk long distances by giving her a mobility scooter so she could walk her rescue rottie, or many of the other things he's done. But I get the sense that he's in it to help people understand that dogs just don't become good dogs without rules boundaries limitations (yep, we say that around our house with a Mexican accent...) Plus the understanding that an exercised dog is a happy dog has probably gotten quite a few dogs out of backyards where owners have thought "oh, my yard is big enough, we don't need to go for a walk".

As previously said in the tread... If his show has sparked people's attendance at obedience because they want a better dog, or worked out that they are contributing to their dogs behaviour, I don't think that's a bad thing.

AND... I agree with the teeth whitening! Man, you can certainly tell the old shows... the transition from scruffy Mexican to polished TV presenter is a sight to behold. The teeth, the manscaping, the even tanned skin tone, no name clothes to designer brands to Dog Whisperer clothes...

[angelsun]

I also agree that his methods in many ways are good old fashioned common sense. I agree when he talks about dogs being dogs, not people in fur suits, and I agree about training and work making a happier dog overall. I also agree that many things he does are beyond many peoples courage or ability. It does not make them wrong however.

There are many out there that can't teach a dog to sit be it with a correction collar or bait...it does not make the methods wrong. We are quick to think that ANY method or trainer MUST be 100% spot on, or it's not going to work.

What annoys me to no end, are those out there (trainers) that beleive ONE method must be used exclusively and anything less is failure on either the part of the dog or the owner.

His methods overall are common sense and yes they work. I agree about showing the extremes on the TV, yes, great for ratings...but for those of us that look past the ratings and TV nonsense, we see the practical applications for his methods as well as realizing that not all methods work with all dogs (or people) We adjust methods and tactics to suit where needed, employing other methods from other sources that might help to get the job done. Multi tasking at its best I think....but above the ability for some to comprehend.

I use aspects of generations of 'fashionable' dog training methods. Do not follow one method blindly or without question, as I beleive that no one method is perfect. We see so many that are writing books or making videos and proclaiming their method as the ONLY one to use, to protect a dogs free thought process, not break his spirit or other such theory. We have gone through generations of not being boss, to being boss, to being equal when it comes to the dogs place in our home. We watch bite and agro statistics rise and fall as these trends come and go. None have been wrong really, but many are not as effective as others, and most are beyond the ability of the average pet owners when they find themselves with a difficult dog.

Another thread reminded me of a simple change in trend on training. WAY back, we were told to leave the dog alone when he eats or we'll get bitten. OK...makes sense....but the incidents of biting still happened because (in my opinion) the dogs were not taught respect and they guarded their resource (food/toy etc) Then the trend changed and we were told that we must teach the dog that food/toys are not to be guarded and that taking food away and giving it back will prevent bites because the dog learns to realize that it will get the item back and it's a case of learning to be patient. Then another comes along and claims it's cruel to take food/toys away and that we should leave the dog alone, let it eat and not bother it.....what goes around, comes around.

This is only one example....Milan's thought process is just the same....many years ago....dogs were dogs....they were disciplined and trained and behaved (for the most part) and dog owners didn't treat them like their kids. This doesn't mean they weren't loved (yes I knew you were thinking that!) It meant that owners knew where the dogs belonged in the home, and the dogs knew it too. Then we have a generation of dogs that place themselves higher on the totem pole and problems arise....and Milan now says...show the dog his place in the world.....what goes around, comes around.

[flux]

I like him.

Repeat of what a lot of others have said. He has brought a lot of positive attention to exercise and discipline. I don't really disagree with anything he does, but I do believe that is A LOT that only he or professional can do, (and definately not the half-ar*ed average joe) he seems to have the right attitude and self-discipline to pull it off correctly. I'm assuming one moment of "doubt" when dealing with some of his stronger cases would completely defeat the message given to the dog, let alone a bite.

[flux]

For the record - the rest of my family doesn't like him. They don't like the use of prong collars, and they don't believe dogs always live in the moment. They own border collies and can't be convinced that they don't think more than just in the moment (I disagree). They also get frustrated (upon reading a book I loaned them) that he doesn't have "instructions" - just theories with no help on how to practically apply them to a dog (lol here I disagree too, but also think people shouldn't be attempting his methods at home - if they are keen, go see a local behavourist first! - so I don't encourage them).

[Nekhbet]

I didnt say dominant dog collars are the only option. They are one and they work quite effectively especially in shutting down an explosive reaction. As for the alpha roll he doesnt do it with all dogs.

[Adza]

I do love Cesar, agree with most methods but yes I don't really feel comfortable with the "dominance" part of it. I wouldn't have known as much about need for exercise etc if I didn't watch his show.

I see him as a great person doing a lot for pitballs and all the other breeds people might consider dangerous. I see his dogs and no way believe they are unhappy. He travels all the time and you know I wouldn't have known about puppy farms/millsif it wasn't for Cesar! Besides doing normal consultations, he does a lot on puppy farms, pounds, helping rescues, top 10 voted dangerous dogs (which he shows its not about the breed). I take my hat off to him.

Sure people might think his bad and don't believe his methods, but he is a damn good person in my eyes and really cares about the community.

Nose Eyes Ears