Cesar Milan Discussion

[pixie_meg]

Many times I have seen people mention the use of cesar milan books or training as a negative. I'm really curious as to why people are negative about Cesar.

I know there are also a lot of supporters. Myself included.

So why the negativity. Those who are negative have you watched many episodes? just curious. I always felt that he wasn't terribly harsh, but mainly used body language and the idea of a pack leader. I have personally seen harsher methods in person than i have seen from the show.

For those who don't like Cesars methods, what have you seen that you specifically didn't like.

Edited October 6, 2010 by pixie_meg

[Kavik]

You don't have an option for NO!

[TerraNik]

Your poll is a bit biased... Where's the 'no' option?

[B-Q]

I think some of his methods are okay but they are the ones I see every decent trainer using.

But most of his philosophy on "the pack" and "dominance" scares the crap out of me, I think he is one of the most dangerous things that has happened to the future of dog training and I wouldn't let him anywhere near my dog.

[pixie_meg]

i hit enter accidentally and fixed it quickly. you guys are way too quick.

[huski]

I think some of his methods are ok and even common sense, but I also think some of his methods are out right dangerous and stupid. Have you seen how often he gets bitten? I would never use confrontational methods as a way of dealing with aggression. Some of the things I've seen him do to dogs makes me feel quite sick.

[pixie_meg]

I think some of his methods are ok and even common sense, but I also think some of his methods are out right dangerous and stupid. Have you seen how often he gets bitten? I would never use confrontational methods as a way of dealing with aggression. Some of the things I've seen him do to dogs makes me feel quite sick.

Can you ellaborate a bit. thanks.

[pixie_meg]

i selected Most of the time as while i'm not keen on use of a shock collar which i saw him use once.

[Kavik]

I see the show occasionally when I am somewhere that has pay TV. I agree with this

I also think some of his methods are out right dangerous and stupid. Have you seen how often he gets bitten? I would never use confrontational methods as a way of dealing with aggression. Some of the things I've seen him do to dogs makes me feel quite sick.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Kavik

[TerraNik]

For me, one of the worst things about him (aside from hat Huski said) is that he is on TV where your average Jo Blow can watch and try to replicate the same methods with their own dog(even if their dog doesn't even have issues). I am not a fan of any TV dog behaviorist though.

[tlc]

I love Cesar, but I do find a lot of his technique is basic common sense. My oldest dog has turned around completely just from me doing a few little things differently than I was previously. He is a different dog, I know it is due to me and what I have been doing but only from applying a couple of Cesars techniques.

I think what a lot of people get up in arms about is that the below average person + an agressive dog + some of Cesars methods could be a recipie for disaster. I think each dog needs to be deal with on a case by case basis, what works for some may not work for others etc etc.

The few times I have seen Cesar been bitten the dog has been extremely aggressive to begin with for whatever reason and no one else would be game to take it on. Im sure with his show, they have to make a show and all the dog would be assessed before the show and if he couldn't deal with it he wouldn't do it. Im betting there is a lot go on behind the scenes that the general public don't know about.

My step dad has watched Cesar and thinks he scares the dogs in to submission :rolleyes: I don't know maybe that is true or does seem that way to some poeple.

I just like his common sense approach and the pack side of things has been good for me to see. I love watching my lot interact and am proud of the fact that they can be a family and not have any major problems living in a pack situation. So I find watching him with all of his dogs together interesting to see how they all behave, its also interesting to see how the pack react when he introduces new dogs.

[tlc]

Nik, sorry I basically repeated what you said, we must have been posting at the same time!

[B-Q]

This si one video that sickened me, Emily's reactions are pretty much the same as Buster's. I spent a lot of effort trying to bring him out of his shell because I believe he was very shut down when younger. His DA has improved significantly. I can't imagine how much this would put him backwards. Its disgusting.

Sure Buster would probably calm down if I choked him to exhaustion aswell.

I ended up tears the first time I watched this, he's flooding her and he's not setting her up to succeed. She doesn't have a chance and I can't imagine whats going on in her head.

He seems good at shutting dogs down very quickly, and then encouraging them when they stop trying.

Dogs know we arn't dogs, if they did I would have a serious problem with Buster. They arn't all trying to dominate us, they are usually just doing what works for them.

Honestly, we invented the "Dog Whisperer Game" here and our dogs love it. We put them all in a down stay and then wander around them, everytime they move we yell "TSHH" and then wrestle them onto their back and yell "ALPHA ROLL!"

They think its great.

Edited October 6, 2010 by busterlove

[silentchild]

I do not like his methods, I don't subscribe to his dominance or submission theory, and I find that if you watch a majority of his videos with the sound off and just watch the dogs body language, they are usually in fear or shut down or terrified.... just ugh, I can't even begin to elaborate how distasteful I find him.

I'm not great at expressing my views, but this post on another dog forum I read sums it all brilliantly as to reasons why his training methods are terrible.

[lovemesideways]

I love him, and at the same time want to punch him in the face :rolleyes:

I love how incredibly calm he is and the mentality of a dog is a dog. I treat my dogs like furry people in the way I'll talk to them (and then reply back for them..:D), cuddle, obsess over, let sleep on my bed, take them to doggy birthday parties . At the same time though, I know they're dogs, they need rules same as kids do. I teach them manners and expect them to listen to me.

But his over use of the "dominant" thing is just ridiculous. I remember a episode with your average out of control Dally puppy. Cesars whole "he is being dooommminant, that is why he does it, bla bla" I just couldn't help but roll my eyes at. Its a puppy, with no training, being a puppy.

Also having seen a woman chasing her small white staffy mix around a park trying to "bite it" with her hand, and doing the TSST TSSSSST thing, I can imagine if this woman was doing it, I wonder what other people are doing in their homes.

Though, as the seasons have gone on, he's certainly moved away from the typical Leash correction, alpha roll stuff. Though I wonder if its just edited out to make critics happier?

Plus no matter how much someone hates him, he is certainly saving dogs that would have otherwise been rehomed or put down.

[RallyValley]

I have read the 'Episode Guide' which goes through the episodes from all 3 series and has a follow up. For the majority of cases where the issues are actually quite simple (pulling on leash, barking at door ect) his rehabilition rates in the 'follow up' section were good mostly because the dogs did just need a 'leader figure' and some exercise.

In the serious cases quite a lot of the time the dog had been rehomed, or the issue had not been completely resolved. One case the dog had even been PTS.

However I do se his message of treating a dog like a dog, making sure he is mentally and physically stimulated is right. It is true what he says that a dog (although there are exceptions) cannot survive on love alone and need rules and structure. (And so does most owners sanity :rolleyes: )

I actually don't disagree with his use of the electric collar in the episode he used it in that I saw. It was an ACD on a farm that would grab tyres of moving machinery and had already been run over a couple of times to the point where it had lost an eye and still continued to do it. Is the electic collar a quick fix - yes, was it effective - yes was the dog's life actually at risk -yes. Would I have trained it that way -no would I have let it get that bad in the first place -no. But most of the general population aren't that thoughtful and it was better to do it then to have the dog run over, potentially fatally.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

he has brought into joe blogs home the fact that dogs ned training and time outside of their garden...that has to be good.

i do not like some of his methods i watched him almost choke one dog, i do not believe in the alpha roll, i do not believe that flooding achieves long term gains.

so watched with discernment then he is ok...however joe blogs isnt a very discerning viewer and therfore likely to get into serious trouble if following cesar's footsteps :rolleyes:

[Aidan]

i selected Most of the time as while i'm not keen on use of a shock collar which i saw him use once.

Are you referring to the episode with the cat? It's not a wonder you don't like shock collars then, he really butchered that and I'm surprised they aired it. If you saw a skilled trainer use one for that sort of problem you would be amazed at the difference.

[Vickie]

I like most of his ideas, but wish there was a way to communicate with the average person that the cases he is dealing with are generally extreme and what he does in those extreme cases would be totally unnecessary for the average pet dogs.

[Nekhbet]

I agree with what he does. As for choking, dog has an option - continue your behaviour and you get a consequence. If the dog calms down it stops. The options are in the dogs hands. He deals with a lot of large, strong dogs who are past the point of playing nice. Many of them are fix or go for a one way trip to the vet.

Not every dog can be fixed with cuddles and food.

I like most of his ideas, but wish there was a way to communicate with the average person that the cases he is dealing with are generally extreme and what he does in those extreme cases would be totally unnecessary for the average pet dogs.

what, like on every episode it is written do not try this at home without a professional?