Black Hawk Holistic Dog Food

[G.G]

This is were it is made - http://www.apfe.com.au/index.html

All Australian ingredients. Is made to be exported and is now being offered here.

The aussie dollar to high to export IMO makes it to expensive

[JulesP]

I don't think that is the reason GG. It has actually been available for ages, at least it has in my local produce place. Well over a year I reckon.

[Sheridan]

This is the same food as the other thread. Different distributor. Black Hawk is coming from a DOL member.

I guess it is Holistic in the same way that EP Holistic is Holistic.

A DOL member makes it or distributes it? Sorry, tired, confused.

[JulesP]

A DOL member sells it would be more accurate.

APFE makes it.

Hungry Hound distributes/wholesales it.

Black Hawk (DOL member) & other places sell it to consumers.

[Sheridan]

Ta, Jules

I think given it's not listed on the APFE site as a product, some further info would be good.

[JulesP]

What do you want to know? If I know I'll tell you It is on their site but under different brand names.

[Skruffy n Flea]

i think i am very interested in this product!

[Sheridan]

Basically the same question. Where does it come from? Source of the meat, etc?

[Gayle.]

ETA: I have been to masterfoods and the staff there are happy to talk about their food production, Black Hawk needs to be ultra transparent if you are hoping this will catch on. Particularly since you don't have traditional representatives like RC, Hills, Pro Plan, Advance. Consumers expect to get an answer to their questions...

Why? Retailers of generic brand products are under no obligation to disclose who makes their products. By law they have to state an ingredient list on the pack and the country of manufacture, but they don't have to state which factory or company produces it.

Other dog food brands such as the ones you list don't advise who makes their products, where they source their ingredients etc. so why should the distributors of Black Hawk have to?

[JulesP]

Basically the same question. Where does it come from? Source of the meat, etc?

It is made by APFE. Same factory that makes Natures Gift products. According to APFE all ingredients are sourced in Australia.

[Staff'n'Toller]

ETA: I have been to masterfoods and the staff there are happy to talk about their food production, Black Hawk needs to be ultra transparent if you are hoping this will catch on. Particularly since you don't have traditional representatives like RC, Hills, Pro Plan, Advance. Consumers expect to get an answer to their questions...

Why? Retailers of generic brand products are under no obligation to disclose who makes their products. By law they have to state an ingredient list on the pack and the country of manufacture, but they don't have to state which factory or company produces it.

Other dog food brands such as the ones you list don't advise who makes their products, where they source their ingredients etc. so why should the distributors of Black Hawk have to?

My questions have always been answered by Advance (Masterfoods) Hills and Royal Canin, Royal Canin reps have told me which area in which country the blue whiting comes from in their formulas- I didn't even ask for that info!!!

My previous statement still stands. I asked the question via email and it was not answered.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Staff'n'Toller

[spottychick]

ETA: I have been to masterfoods and the staff there are happy to talk about their food production, Black Hawk needs to be ultra transparent if you are hoping this will catch on. Particularly since you don't have traditional representatives like RC, Hills, Pro Plan, Advance. Consumers expect to get an answer to their questions...

Why? Retailers of generic brand products are under no obligation to disclose who makes their products. By law they have to state an ingredient list on the pack and the country of manufacture, but they don't have to state which factory or company produces it.

Other dog food brands such as the ones you list don't advise who makes their products, where they source their ingredients etc. so why should the distributors of Black Hawk have to?

There may not be any legal obligation but it is good business sense to have transparency about your business and your product.

So the "why?" question is answered with - "because people want to know what they're feeding their dogs/cats and/or who they're dealing with and may not buy from you if you dont provide good information".

But whether or not the company provides that information is totally up to them of course.

[Sheridan]

I think if a company is claiming to be holistic then they should show where they source their ingredients.

[mackiemad]

i think it isn't good enough to say that the ingredients are sourced from australia (though, a bit WOOT! for the fact they are )

if i asked a question saying where is the lamb from i would actually expect a region, maybe even a breed of sheep that they use because of xyz. same with any ingredient.

if they can't be transparent then it raises questions in my mind about how much they know about their own ingredients. i expect a holistic food to be using meat that wasn't given growth hormones, for example, and they cannot promise that, so can they truly promise to be holistic?

also, why do they use a meat 'meal' rather than just the meat? i'm not against a meal but i'd like to know why they think that is better or I tend to assume that's all they cold afford or get a hold of (i'm cynical

and i am interested in the product, it sounds like people who use it are getting fab results, but questions need to be answered and the process transparent is all...

[Gayle.]

Do you ask these questions of all the manufacturers of all products you consume? My dogs have tried this kibble, they loved it. They are going to be switched over to it. They have recently been eating Coprice, Uncle Albers and Supercoat. Do you know where any of their ingredients are sourced? And if they say so, how do they prove it?

Sometimes these questions take on a "forum mentality" and cease to make sense or mean anything. They get a bit overpicked and some of the questions and statements become a bit ludicrous. Such as the people who claim that human grade meat is the only meat their dogs should ever eat and all kibble should contain human grade meat etc. etc......but in the next breath, they recommend giving the dogs green tripe. Something that is deemed not fit for consumption in this country. So definitely not a human grade meat.

Edited October 6, 2010 by GayleK

[Rebanne]

so Black Hawk pet food is re badged Nature's Gift?

[spottychick]

Do you ask these questions of all the manufacturers of all products you consume? My dogs have tried this kibble, they loved it.

If I can, yes I do. And if it makes claims to be organic or holistic etc I want to know even more about that.

And I certainly do that kind of research on manufactured pet food - again - especially one that claims to be special in some way - eg holistic. I dont bother asking questions of brands like Chum and Pal because I can read their ingredients and immediately know they are rubbish. But if theres a new brand that has the potential to be a good one because it's saying it's holistic or whatever then yes I do a lot of research on them before using their product. If I find a lot of smoke and mirrors when I try to get info it tends to put me off the whole deal.

I don't use much manufactured food for my dogs but if I do feel the need to feed them something pre-made I want to know a lot about it first. That's just me.

[Gayle.]

so Black Hawk pet food is re badged Nature's Gift?

No, because if you check the ingredients list for Natures Gift kibble, which is clearly listed on their website, it's very, very different to Back Hawk.

[Gayle.]

Do you ask these questions of all the manufacturers of all products you consume? My dogs have tried this kibble, they loved it.

If I can, yes I do. And if it makes claims to be organic or holistic etc I want to know even more about that.

And I certainly do that kind of research on manufactured pet food - again - especially one that claims to be special in some way - eg holistic. I dont bother asking questions of brands like Chum and Pal because I can read their ingredients and immediately know they are rubbish. But if theres a new brand that has the potential to be a good one because it's saying it's holistic or whatever then yes I do a lot of research on them before using their product. If I find a lot of smoke and mirrors when I try to get info it tends to put me off the whole deal.

I don't use much manufactured food for my dogs but if I do feel the need to feed them something pre-made I want to know a lot about it first. That's just me.

But how do you know that what they are telling you is the truth? They could tell you anything.......the beef is Angus cows bred in the highlands of Scotland and fed only the finest grain grown by the holy monks of Nepal.....and how are you going to prove it's true?

[Staff'n'Toller]

Since I've had financial control over what my dogs eat I choose not to feed the supermarket brands or anything that's in the lower range as the ingredients list reflects the quality of the proteins and carbohydrates used. Generally these are meat by-products, in that way the company dodges having to be truthful about the continuity of quality of the meat they are using- they can choose whatever meat by-products they wish. There are generally lots of carbohydrates as the large % of the food.

If a company has to state Lamb or Chicken or Beef sans by-products then it must be actual meat. They are bound to do so. They can't decide 'this batch will be wings, heads, eyeballs and feet' where it has previously been muscle meat.

You can ring any premium foods manufacturer and ask where their food is manufactured, they should be happy to tell you. This isn't info privy to the Veterinary industry. They all have 1800 lines, and for us they have Veterinary help lines as well.

I'm really passionate about food miles, date of production of dry food, and Aus made products. I am stoked that a company has taken on the project of creating a holistic food with good quality ingredients, I just want to know a few details, otherwise I don't feel I can recommend it to anyone. ;) I'm very happy with the price, I'm more than impressed that it was delivered a day early and I'm actually ecstatic that it was only cooked two weeks ago! I can't wait to open the bag. I feel really ripped off when I pay full price for Eagle Pack holistic and it's got 3 months of freshness left, I know it's spent 15mths sitting on shelves or ships or docks. It's not good enough.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Staff'n'Toller