Herding Instinct In Border Collies

[shyfig]

Hi all..

I am new to this forum and have a beautiful 5 1/2 month old male Border Collie whom we have had for a month. I am curious about other BC's as Jed does not seem to fit the "typical" descriptions of the breed that I have read.

He is so easy going, quite...not at all boisterous or overloaded with energy. He has loads of company during the day as I am an at home mum with 3 boys that are home schooled. Perhaps this constant "people" availability keeps Jed pretty happy.

He has a 1/4 acre fenced yard and the freedom to be off lead all day. At night he sleeps indoors with us and is doing pretty well learning to get along with our two cats.

My big question at the moment is does the "herding instinct" switch on at a particular age? How will I know when it happens as this is the time I don't want to be caught out.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

How do you know it's not "on" now?

What do you mean by "caught out"?

There are competition herding organisations, and some people offer herding training - ie teach you and your dog how to do herding competitions. There's probably one in your state.

http://www.dogsnsw.org.au/activities-a-eve...ng.html?start=6

Pre-test - does your dog like chasing things that move. Eg people, children, joggers, bicycles, seagulls, cats, balls?

First herding instinct test. Does your dog seem interested in sheep (or ducks).

Good.

Second test / first level training - 3 shaggy sheep in a small round yard, one dog on long line with handler and with trainer who has a long stick for keeping dog from getting too "enthusiatic". Note - stick is not supposed to be used for clobbering the dog so much as blocking its path to slow it down. If it's going a bit fast and head butts the stick, that's how it learns to be more steady. It also learns when the long line gets stepped on. Should be done in combination with helpful words like "stop" and "ssh ssh ssh" (go).

If dog attacks sheep instead of "moving them" - then I guess you may be "caught out" or this particular BC is a pet only.

[shyfig]

How do you know it's not "on" now?

I don't know...that's why I'm seeking advice....

What do you mean by "caught out"?

I want to be prepared to know what to expect....

There are competition herding organisations, and some people offer herding training - ie teach you and your dog how to do herding competitions. There's probably one in your state.

I am not interested in training Jed to herd...he is a pet only.....

Pre-test - does your dog like chasing things that move. Eg people, children, joggers, bicycles, seagulls, cats, balls?

No....

[Kavik]

I think you would know by now if your dog was exhibiting behaviours that are going to cause you problems.

Behaviours which you would look for:

* chasing things that move such as kids, joggers, other animals, bikes, scooters, motorbikes, cars

* barking at moving things

* stalking people, other animals

In all breeds, there are dogs with more or less energy, 'drive' and instinct. Most of the time, you can pick the really energetic dogs from the time they are young puppies (this is how breeders try to match puppies with the right homes, by knowing what to look for in temperament traits).

From the sounds of it you are doing well and have a pup on the calmer end

[JulesP]

I've had 5 border collies. They have all been quiet dogs. Energy when required but happy to snooze when not required. And that is what a 'typical' border collie should be.

When my dogs are playing herding they aren't usually chasing btw. They are stalking, crouching, dropping and standing frozen on the spot.

[♪♫LMBC♫♪]

I think you would know by now if your dog was exhibiting behaviours that are going to cause you problems.

Behaviours which you would look for:

* chasing things that move such as kids, joggers, other animals, bikes, scooters, motorbikes, cars

* barking at moving things

* stalking people, other animals

In all breeds, there are dogs with more or less energy, 'drive' and instinct. Most of the time, you can pick the really energetic dogs from the time they are young puppies (this is how breeders try to match puppies with the right homes, by knowing what to look for in temperament traits).

From the sounds of it you are doing well and have a pup on the calmer end

Darcy does all of the above and has done since he was a baby.

As someone else said, at 5.5 months old I think you would know if he was going to have any issues.

[Vickie]

I don't really understand your question about instinct?

Are you asking if he will develop undesirable behaviours?

He sounds like a nice pet. It is very important to work hard on his recall. I find many dogs go through a stage about 6-8 months where they gain confidence & realize they don't have to cone when called etc. Having a good relationship & recall prior to the 6 mth mark will help you through this stage.

Pre-test - does your dog like chasing things that move. Eg people, children, joggers, bicycles, seagulls, cats,

my youngest 2 BC's have a heap of instinct & ability on stock & have never done any of the above. They are also great pets.

[Nekhbet]

Not every border collie will develop herding instincts, I've seen plenty without. Depends on what the lines and breeding the parents are.

[Lollipup]

Hi there, my almost 6 month old BC, Chester, is very calm and quiet around the house but also has the energy when he needs it. We can tell he has herding instinct by the way he acts towards fast moving objects. He crouches low and stalks our other dog as she runs towards him with the ball / frisbee, the other day my husband was flying a large kite and Chester was stalking it, looking into the air. He also looks at cars as though he wants to herd them but we're making it clear that this is a no go and he is pretty good with it now.

I guess most people are worried about BCs herding children as they don't want a child getting nipped. I found this site quite good for a brief overview: http://www.bcrescue.org/bcwarning.html

Enjoy your boy, he looks and sounds like a great dog

[Kavik]

Just to clarify - my post was about undesirable behaviours, not herding behaviours per se. I posted the common problem behaviours that herding breeds can develop that I thought the OP was interested in

[B-Q]

I think it can also depend where you get the dog from, not all breeders are breeding for working ability and may not have been for some time so instinct may have disapeared or become less obvious in some lines.

And I suppose you'll always have it come through more obvisouly in some dogs than others.

Quinn showed some instinct from the day I bought her home, this is a photo from her second morning here. Cat = not impressed.

And now at 4 months how she plays with the other dogs.

Edited October 4, 2010 by busterlove

[shortstep]

Hi all..

I am new to this forum and have a beautiful 5 1/2 month old male Border Collie whom we have had for a month. I am curious about other BC's as Jed does not seem to fit the "typical" descriptions of the breed that I have read.

He is so easy going, quite...not at all boisterous or overloaded with energy. He has loads of company during the day as I am an at home mum with 3 boys that are home schooled. Perhaps this constant "people" availability keeps Jed pretty happy.

He has a 1/4 acre fenced yard and the freedom to be off lead all day. At night he sleeps indoors with us and is doing pretty well learning to get along with our two cats.

My big question at the moment is does the "herding instinct" switch on at a particular age? How will I know when it happens as this is the time I don't want to be caught out.

Hi

Your young dog sounds to be the perfect fit for your family!

Your question, does herding instinct switch on at a particular age, the answer is yes. However that age can be different in each dog. There are many stories of dogs not wanting to and even refusing to work stock up to even 2 years of age, then suddenly decided to work and going on to win some the highest levels of trialing in the world. Some of these dogs also going to be key stud dogs in the breed. I have also had pups at 4 weeks of age show clear working behaviours.

So it would not be unsual for a dog at 5 months to not show any desire to work and then at a later date begin to show these behaviours. I would just keep my fingers crossed he stays like he is. Do you know if his parents grandparents and so forth were dogs that worked stock for a living, if so you may have a little more to worry about.

Good advice on teaching a solid 'Come' and also a solid 'Leave it'. I would then not worry about it since you do not want a dog that herds, but do be ready to control any unwanted behaviours as the dogs grows up. You will do fine!

[ness]

Our first border collie wasn't really into chasing things and was pretty well behaved until she hit 7 months. She use to hang around my parents at our country place every weekend. This one weekend she took off after a car going 100km/hr. Completely out of the blue. She was fine but she then did start repeating this behavior more regularly (although wasn't obviously given the opportunity to do so). I would spend plenty of time working on a solid reliable recall with your pup and don't be totally complacent as to whether the dog might give chase to something until the pup is a lot older. That way your never going to be "caught out".

Edited October 4, 2010 by ness

[asal]

our first never bothered, our second, would try to herd the sparrows, the starlings, the doves, n WHEN WE LET THE CHOOKS OUT! he was in heaven.

herded em from one end of the place to the other. the chooks had to go where he decided not them. occasionaly led to arguments n the hens would squark in protest.

well until the rooster decided it wasnt on and took to him. soo if he made one of the hens protest, into the dog would fly the rooster to "drive" him off.

the game would last for hours. he was bred by Ninda Kennels... such a long time ago now. sigh stunning dog

Edited October 5, 2010 by asal

[cry123]

We have working border collies and keplies, (we do three sheep dog trialling as well as farm work)

Not all border collies will have the herding instinct. We have just given a working bred border collie (both his mother and father are top dogs a long history of working dogs in the family, with some of the best lines in the country) away to a friend of ours. He simply didnt really want to be a working dog. He was over 12 months old, and so far has been given every opportunity to bring out his working instinct but sadly, he was just too casual and wanted to be a pet! He is not the first BC that we have given away as a family pet. We have kids so all of our dogs can easily fall into the "family pet" category, (and to be honest if they dont then they dont stay at our house).

There is also different levels of herding instinct, some show a little bit and others show a lot.

As mentioned above: barking, digging, chasing birds, chasing cars, chasing kids on bikes etc, chasing other dogs can all be signs of the herding intinct not being utilised.

[AmandaJ]

As mentioned above: barking, digging, chasing birds, chasing cars, chasing kids on bikes etc, chasing other dogs can all be signs of the herding intinct not being utilised.

Well - that explains why my Beardie bitch did so well in her instinct test....she catches birds in flight (jumps to get them) and digs monstorous holes

It was her first time out - did the practice in the morning and the test in the afternoon and passed in 2:40. Pitty the boy didn't do as well - he was not the slightest bit interested.

[shyfig]

1. 
   

[shyfig]

1. 
   

Whoops...that didn't work but I'll get my head around replying soon enough!!

Thanks everyone so much for your replies. I was quite taken aback at the number and speed of replies....very encouraging.

Unfortunately I can't work out how to multi quote posts so be convinced for now that everyone's thoughts and advice has been sincerely appreciated.

I've been able to see Jed a little more for what he is and to learn more of how he can be. Invaluable advice has also been given to help me through the beginning stages of obedience training and to help me feel a great deal more confident as Jed and I really begin our walk together.

And of course my questions and concerns about the herding instinct has really been tended to!

Looking forward to meeting you all again in many discussions to come.

Edited October 5, 2010 by shyfig

[Gayle.]

I never realised that "herding instinct" in a herding breed was an undesirable trait in a pet. Out of my dogs, the one with the most herding instinct is the best behaved....she's quiet, calm, very easy to work with as she's very focussed, and she's the most wonderful pet. She has never destroyed anything and would simply die rather than get into trouble.

But she's the frisbee chaser extraordinaire, loves running beside my bike, and lets me know things by running to them then running in circles around them....such as when the other dogs are misbehaving, or if I'm looking for where the frisbee landed.

[cry123]

I never realised that "herding instinct" in a herding breed was an undesirable trait in a pet. Out of my dogs, the one with the most herding instinct is the best behaved....she's quiet, calm, very easy to work with as she's very focussed, and she's the most wonderful pet. She has never destroyed anything and would simply die rather than get into trouble.

But she's the frisbee chaser extraordinaire, loves running beside my bike, and lets me know things by running to them then running in circles around them....such as when the other dogs are misbehaving, or if I'm looking for where the frisbee landed.

I think it can only be undesirable when people dont understand the traits. So many working bred dogs end up in the pound etc or people dont know how to handle them. (The barking, digging etc all boredom traits) but if you use these traits for good, like you have Gaylek, I think they make the most fantastic pets. Even though we have working dogs to do sheep dog trialling with, we wouldnt have anything other then a BC or a kelpie.