So A Friend Makes This Comment...

[lanabanana]

I think the person has a point....

Because we eat them and they are raised for slaughtering, we put much less value on the type of life they should have while they are alive (sorry pigs and chooks I am talking about).

IMO, I dont care if an animal is going to live to be 100, or going to be slaughtered for meat at 1...they should all have a nice life until that time comes.

In regards to her statements about puppy farming, maybe if she doesn't have dogs or know much about them she doesn't place any extra value on them - regardless of what they have been raised for she perhaps sees them as similar to chickens and pigs if that makes sense.

I am sure she has met some nice dogs from puppy farms, and I am sure there are plenty out there who are nice. Unfortunately, if even only one dog is damaged as a result of puppy farming, it is really not OK. We all know that not only one dog is damaged though. Same for pigs and chooks (which until reasonably recently, like 4 years ago, I was blissfully unaware how these poor animals were raised. I thought they all lived how my Aunts did, out in very large paddocks etc)

[Rusky]

I care about the chickens I only eat free range eggs and chicken meat, same with pork if I can't get free range I don't eat it...however your friend has gone off the topic.

I have had a fair bit of this through my life, things like

" so you care about the dogs, what about the children who are suffering etc etc "

stuff like you ONLY care about the dogs while worthwhile people give time to children etc

My reply to such people is always the same

Oh great ! I do my thing with dogs and you do your thing with children, it is just great that you do that ...tell me about it

If they actually do support a group then it has long been my experience that these people are the last people to blow you out for caring about dogs or whatever your passion is or which cause you support because they actually do understand that we can't all do everything and it doesn't mean that we don't care about their cause.

Hope that helps

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I would like to add

Ask for free range beef not grain fed next time you eat out in a fancy restaurant.

I hate the whole concept of "grain fed beef". I've seen those poor critters standing up to their knees in their own shit until it's time to be killed. That's not right either.

I don't think you can argue that puppy farms are ok and battery chook farms are not. It's daft. But I find I don't have time to fight every cause. You do end up picking and choosing.

A lot of pigs are raised in "barns" these days where they are sheltered from the sun, they have evaporative cooling. They have fresh straw to lie on, they have room to move and use one corner of their pen for crapping etc so the rest stays pretty nice. And this is because pigs raised like this grow faster, and have more muscle and fat than ones that can't move and have to stand in their own filth.

However - the conditions the sows live in when making the piglets before they get on sold to the meat growers - that leaves a lot to be desired.

The only way you can be sure you really are getting free range animals - is to buy organic. Because the organisations that certify food "organic", actually go out and spot check the farms. Where as there is no standard or inspection or enforcement of terms like "free range" or "barn raised" etc.

And don't get me started on how caged humans in Oz get treated. Grr. These people will be out one day - most of them, and then they need to be able to function. Are our institutions facilitating this? Not in my state.

[chellz]

What about the animals in factory farms? Oh yeah, chickens aren't cute like puppies so nobody cares. At least puppies get out in a few months - factory farm animals live in the same deplorable conditions for their entire life and then die. Just food for thought

I would have usually left it, but couldn't ignore the "At least puppies get out in a few months" as in then it's all fine and dandy, and there are no ill effects!! I went on to argue with her with the help of another actual dog knowledgeable friend (the girl we were arguing against doesn't even own a dog or know stuff about them) about how there is so much more to it and in fact most dogs from puppy mills are effected in one way or another whether it me mental or physical or social. And often after the mills they end up in glass chambers in pet shops and loose all social development. She got mad and said where are my STATISTICS, she said she has met 'a few' pet shop puppy farm dogs and they are fine and happy!

We kept arguing with her but she is one of those people that you just CAN'T argue with because they only see their view.

And let's not forget the bitches and stud dogs kept in those conditions forever!

ARHH so angry!! :)

You are right, you cant argue with her and probally wont be able to change her mind ;)

Most people are ignorant but in her case maybe she is trying to point out that their are animals in poor conditions (like chickens)

You know how you get hot headed in a arguement and start saying things that you might not totally agree with but your in the heat of the moment! or sometimes people prefer to be ignorant about things so they dont have to deal with things.. All we can hope for is the majority of people will do the right thing for ALL animals

Edited October 4, 2010 by chellz

[chellz]

I think the person has a point....

Because we eat them and they are raised for slaughtering, we put much less value on the type of life they should have while they are alive (sorry pigs and chooks I am talking about).

IMO, I dont care if an animal is going to live to be 100, or going to be slaughtered for meat at 1...they should all have a nice life until that time comes.

In regards to her statements about puppy farming, maybe if she doesn't have dogs or know much about them she doesn't place any extra value on them - regardless of what they have been raised for she perhaps sees them as similar to chickens and pigs if that makes sense.

I am sure she has met some nice dogs from puppy farms, and I am sure there are plenty out there who are nice. Unfortunately, if even only one dog is damaged as a result of puppy farming, it is really not OK. We all know that not only one dog is damaged though. Same for pigs and chooks (which until reasonably recently, like 4 years ago, I was blissfully unaware how these poor animals were raised. I thought they all lived how my Aunts did, out in very large paddocks etc)

very good point.. i agree with you

[B-Q]

I see her point, but she should recognise the parents never get out.

It is one thing that does annoy me though, seems a little hypocritical when I see so many people up in arms about puppy mills and are still happy to eat food that comes from factory farmed animals when they know better.

The animal doesn't care if its being raised for food or companionship, it still wants and deserves a nice life.

Edited October 5, 2010 by busterlove

[aussielover]

I read somewhere that the 'barn laid' eggs are the only real free range eggs out there (apart from people who have chooks of their own) the pack with the RSPCA logo are barn laid, free range was said to be just like caged except there is no cage (no cage, but still no room to move)

Barn laid eggs are from chooks who are able to move freely around a barn but have no access to the outdoors. http://www.hwag.com.au/barn-laid-eggs

Free Range eggs are from chooks who are housed in a barn/shed but also have access to the outdoors for at least 8 hrs per day. http://www.hwag.com.au/free-range-eggs

Barn laid eggs have their own problems as well. Though they are theoretically free to move around, the stocking density and numbers are often way too high (upto 3000), leading to problems such as fighting and canabilism as well as respiratory disease etc.

Free range only means that they have access to an outdoor area, this might only be a small space, that not all birds can fit in at one time. Also some "free range" birds do not enjoy being outside as it is too stressful for them (they haven't been raised to cope with outdoor conditions).

The only truly free range chickens are those kept in peoples backyards or farm hens, where they are kept in small numbers.

I really think people should be more aware of how their food is raised and killed.

[corrie]

What about the animals in factory farms? Oh yeah, chickens aren't cute like puppies so nobody cares. At least puppies get out in a few months - factory farm animals live in the same deplorable conditions for their entire life and then die. Just food for thought

I think Jaxx's Buddy wrote the perfect reply to that kind of comparison statement in an unrelated topic recently.........

"I am concerned about this as well....i multi-concern ;) ."

Edited October 5, 2010 by corrie

[Sasha (Alexander)]

What about the animals in factory farms? Oh yeah, chickens aren't cute like puppies so nobody cares. At least puppies get out in a few months - factory farm animals live in the same deplorable conditions for their entire life and then die. Just food for thought

I would have usually left it, but couldn't ignore the "At least puppies get out in a few months" as in then it's all fine and dandy, and there are no ill effects!! I went on to argue with her with the help of another actual dog knowledgeable friend (the girl we were arguing against doesn't even own a dog or know stuff about them) about how there is so much more to it and in fact most dogs from puppy mills are effected in one way or another whether it me mental or physical or social. And often after the mills they end up in glass chambers in pet shops and loose all social development. She got mad and said where are my STATISTICS, she said she has met 'a few' pet shop puppy farm dogs and they are fine and happy!

We kept arguing with her but she is one of those people that you just CAN'T argue with because they only see their view.

And let's not forget the bitches and stud dogs kept in those conditions forever!

ARHH so angry!!

I think you are making a strawman argument in relation to the other girl's statement. From the limited statement that you posted it sounds like she is arguing that puppies from puppy farms have it better then livestock animals who are stuck in small cages for life. I don't think she is saying that puppy farms are thus acceptable, but rather that they are the better of the two evils.

I would agree that there is much less focus on the livestock welfare then pets. But it doesn't have to be either that or this. There should be focus on the welfare of all animals.

Edited October 5, 2010 by Sasha (Alexander)