Anyone Interested

[Moselle]

Why ban greyhound racing? because it's a never ending quest to breed litter upon litter in search of that mighty champion; the dogs, in the meantime, are kept caged for their short life, needled with drugs that are undetectable within 24 hours of racing and has hideous side-effects, the dogs are either starved or overfed if they are not within a one kg range of their last weigh in and then they are put down if they are not fast enough for the race track. IF a litter of greyhound pups have not been named yet but have been trialled and are not fast enough they are put down callously as their owners don't have to explain to GRV the disappearance of dogs that are not known to exist! Oh, and the greyhound themselves are trained on live lure where small animals are thrown into an enclosure amongst greyhounds and literally torn to shreds! Yes greyhound racing should be banned but people being as money hungry as they are.....this disgusting practice will never stop!

That is a GROSS generalisation. How many greyhound breeders/trainers do you know?

I am not in the feeble habit of making "gross generalisations".....and I do know quite a fair few greyhound breeders/trainers hence my comments about this "sport." How many do you know? and are you in a position of assuring everyone that I am indeed blowing things out of all proportions??? There is always the exception to the rule and I am the first to admit that there may be a few individuals that are doing the right thing but they are the exception and not the rule.

[Aidan3]

Does anyone else think someone might be trolling this thread? Especially in light of another thread by that same person. Certainly seems to know how to hit a few buttons :D

[haven]

I am not in the feeble habit of making "gross generalisations

Really? You seem to be doing a bang up job of it in this thread alone :D

hunting is a man's job

I choose not to keep company with women that are rough around the edges as that is the way that I potray women that are into hunting

I would assume that the butcher would have to be male

[Oliversmum]

We live on a small rural property and my OH has been saying for years that we should grow some meat in our top paddock as we have nothing on it. I would always say no as I have an aversion to raising something then killing it for the table.

I have to say that recently I have been starting to rethink my stance on this. Considering the appalling conditions that commercially raised meat animals are kept in and the entire abbatoir scenario, I think I could give a couple of calves, lambs or pigs a great life. They have plenty of feed and room to roam, will have all of their needs met and will live a pain free, stress free and comfortable life.

After reading this thread, I've just told me OH that I think it might be a good idea as long as when the animals are ready to go, they are sent directly and killed humanely and when they get there. We are in a good position where their is a Butcher in a nearby town that kills and dresses your meat. No mucking around, it is done properly and humanely.

No more plastic wrapped, miserably raised, tortured steaks for us.....

[Dust Angel]

We live on a small rural property and my OH has been saying for years that we should grow some meat in our top paddock as we have nothing on it. I would always say no as I have an aversion to raising something then killing it for the table.

I have to say that recently I have been starting to rethink my stance on this. Considering the appalling conditions that commercially raised meat animals are kept in and the entire abbatoir scenario, I think I could give a couple of calves, lambs or pigs a great life. They have plenty of feed and room to roam, will have all of their needs met and will live a pain free, stress free and comfortable life.

After reading this thread, I've just told me OH that I think it might be a good idea as long as when the animals are ready to go, they are sent directly and killed humanely and when they get there. We are in a good position where their is a Butcher in a nearby town that kills and dresses your meat. No mucking around, it is done properly and humanely.

No more plastic wrapped, miserably raised, tortured steaks for us.....

:D It is very sad at first, however if when you compare the lifestyle of animals its a far better option for them, whilst it may not be as guilt free as picking up the shrink wrapped parcel from the supermarket you are making a small difference in the end.

[stormie]

We live on a small rural property and my OH has been saying for years that we should grow some meat in our top paddock as we have nothing on it. I would always say no as I have an aversion to raising something then killing it for the table.

I have to say that recently I have been starting to rethink my stance on this. Considering the appalling conditions that commercially raised meat animals are kept in and the entire abbatoir scenario, I think I could give a couple of calves, lambs or pigs a great life. They have plenty of feed and room to roam, will have all of their needs met and will live a pain free, stress free and comfortable life.

After reading this thread, I've just told me OH that I think it might be a good idea as long as when the animals are ready to go, they are sent directly and killed humanely and when they get there. We are in a good position where their is a Butcher in a nearby town that kills and dresses your meat. No mucking around, it is done properly and humanely.

No more plastic wrapped, miserably raised, tortured steaks for us.....

OT but is the Butcher in Wilberforce? One of our clients (a cattle farmer) also has a small bit of land in rural Sydney where they raise a few steers and mentioned they send them to a place in Wilberforce to be killed etc. I've wanted to do it on my current property but just had no idea how to go about it. Unfortunately I now have to move and not sure I'll be lucky enough to get on land again.

If you go ahead with it, I'd love to, ummmm, share your meat with you :D

[Oliversmum]

We live on a small rural property and my OH has been saying for years that we should grow some meat in our top paddock as we have nothing on it. I would always say no as I have an aversion to raising something then killing it for the table.

I have to say that recently I have been starting to rethink my stance on this. Considering the appalling conditions that commercially raised meat animals are kept in and the entire abbatoir scenario, I think I could give a couple of calves, lambs or pigs a great life. They have plenty of feed and room to roam, will have all of their needs met and will live a pain free, stress free and comfortable life.

After reading this thread, I've just told me OH that I think it might be a good idea as long as when the animals are ready to go, they are sent directly and killed humanely and when they get there. We are in a good position where their is a Butcher in a nearby town that kills and dresses your meat. No mucking around, it is done properly and humanely.

No more plastic wrapped, miserably raised, tortured steaks for us.....

:D It is very sad at first, however if when you compare the lifestyle of animals its a far better option for them, whilst it may not be as guilt free as picking up the shrink wrapped parcel from the supermarket you are making a small difference in the end.

I'll just have make sure I don't name them....that is the condition OH tells me because he knows if I name them, there here for good

Another thing too, I know that there will be food for the dogs afterwards. Owning several giant breeds, what could be a better diet for them? Sometimes I can't get offal and such for the girls. Methinks this might be a great idea and one I will feel good about :D

[Oliversmum]

We live on a small rural property and my OH has been saying for years that we should grow some meat in our top paddock as we have nothing on it. I would always say no as I have an aversion to raising something then killing it for the table.

I have to say that recently I have been starting to rethink my stance on this. Considering the appalling conditions that commercially raised meat animals are kept in and the entire abbatoir scenario, I think I could give a couple of calves, lambs or pigs a great life. They have plenty of feed and room to roam, will have all of their needs met and will live a pain free, stress free and comfortable life.

After reading this thread, I've just told me OH that I think it might be a good idea as long as when the animals are ready to go, they are sent directly and killed humanely and when they get there. We are in a good position where their is a Butcher in a nearby town that kills and dresses your meat. No mucking around, it is done properly and humanely.

No more plastic wrapped, miserably raised, tortured steaks for us.....

OT but is the Butcher in Wilberforce? One of our clients (a cattle farmer) also has a small bit of land in rural Sydney where they raise a few steers and mentioned they send them to a place in Wilberforce to be killed etc. I've wanted to do it on my current property but just had no idea how to go about it. Unfortunately I now have to move and not sure I'll be lucky enough to get on land again.

If you go ahead with it, I'd love to, ummmm, share your meat with you :D

That's the one Stormie....OH and his Rugby club had a big end of season celebration here a few years ago and raised a lamb at a mates property and took it to Wilberforce and it came back on a spit rod...I know it sound sad, but, hey it fed 25 people and I know that it lived a good life.

[stormie]

I wish I'd heard about this place a few months ago!! I wonder if my boss would mind raising some lambs in his backyard :D

[Souff]

... but the fact remains that I cannot get my head around women who hunt, it simply does not agree with me.

My issue is..... how can one be certain that animals killed in their backyard are killed humanely? surely there are individuals out there that have no idea on how to conduct such an act as painlessly as is possible????

So only men can shoot and fish? Sexist Moselle, sexist!

The aim is always to kill the animal quickly and humanely. Not too many animals are killed in their own backyard anyway but Souff's beef farming rellies are qualified butchers with their own s/s butchery room and freezer room. I can almost taste the next roast beef and gravy meal there! Yum. With the home grown vegies on the side, washed down with a bottle of Mudgee red. Oh and yes, their womenfolk can well handle the gun on the foxes and they bring home venison occasionally. All very quick and clean.

Those ladies do not mess around. They love animals and are registered breeders. If you are ever at the Royal Easter Show you could easily be chatting with them.

But you can relax Moselle, they don't take their guns to the show! :D

Souff

[Dust Angel]

We live on a small rural property and my OH has been saying for years that we should grow some meat in our top paddock as we have nothing on it. I would always say no as I have an aversion to raising something then killing it for the table.

I have to say that recently I have been starting to rethink my stance on this. Considering the appalling conditions that commercially raised meat animals are kept in and the entire abbatoir scenario, I think I could give a couple of calves, lambs or pigs a great life. They have plenty of feed and room to roam, will have all of their needs met and will live a pain free, stress free and comfortable life.

After reading this thread, I've just told me OH that I think it might be a good idea as long as when the animals are ready to go, they are sent directly and killed humanely and when they get there. We are in a good position where their is a Butcher in a nearby town that kills and dresses your meat. No mucking around, it is done properly and humanely.

No more plastic wrapped, miserably raised, tortured steaks for us.....

:D It is very sad at first, however if when you compare the lifestyle of animals its a far better option for them, whilst it may not be as guilt free as picking up the shrink wrapped parcel from the supermarket you are making a small difference in the end.

I'll just have make sure I don't name them....that is the condition OH tells me because he knows if I name them, there here for good :p

Another thing too, I know that there will be food for the dogs afterwards. Owning several giant breeds, what could be a better diet for them? Sometimes I can't get offal and such for the girls. Methinks this might be a great idea and one I will feel good about :p

Ahhh yes NEVER name anything that is supposed to end up in your freezer, also dont hand raise them you'll end up with a paddock full of awesome poddies Dorpas are a wonderful meat sheep and shed so dont need to be shorn.

I approached a couple of farmers today and they were all more then happy for you to come down this way with your ferrets :D

[Flick_Mac]

I've been to an abbatoir, and will be doing a rotation there in 2 years as part of my vet course. We also had part of a 'production' subject on slaughtering and killing.

The stunning that is done (reversible or irreversible, usually bolt gun or electric shock, sometimes gas) renders the animal unconscious and the animal must be bled out before it can regain consciousness (if it's a reversible stun). Therefore, the last thing the animal knows is the actual stun - there is no pain while it is bled out.

The abbatoir I went to is one of the biggest in the southern hemisphere and I found it to be a lot better than I was expecting. There is a high emphasis on welfare - including emergency slaughters if animals come in injured (we actually saw one of these cows), and the actual design of the place takes into account the studies by Temple Grandin (the autistic lady who's a genius about these things). I found the whole thing very confronting, but also reasonably reassuriing - as the cows were exposed to minimum stress. However, if given the opportunity (not that I could do it neccessarily) I would probably prefer home killed meat.

Back to the topic! Ferreting looks awesome! Such an interesting day out - I wish I wasn't in QLD!

ETA: Also - the guy using the stun gun has to be VERY accurate - he's not allowed to miss more than 1 in 100 or something like that or he's kicked off it. They also had someone underneath the knock-box as the cows came out checking for missed shots and ready with a bolt gun to re-stun if neccessary. To me that was a very important aspect.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Flick_Mac

[lanabanana]

I am not in the feeble habit of making "gross generalisations

Really? You seem to be doing a bang up job of it in this thread alone :D

hunting is a man's job

I choose not to keep company with women that are rough around the edges as that is the way that I potray women that are into hunting

I would assume that the butcher would have to be male

PMSL

[Earthdog]

I am not in the feeble habit of making "gross generalisations".....and I do know quite a fair few greyhound breeders/trainers hence my comments about this "sport." How many do you know? and are you in a position of assuring everyone that I am indeed blowing things out of all proportions??? There is always the exception to the rule and I am the first to admit that there may be a few individuals that are doing the right thing but they are the exception and not the rule.

Actually I know many greyhound trainers.

None of whom blood their dogs, even my crazy old uncle. I work with greyhound people. I teach greyhound people's children. I'm related to greyhound people. The exception in my experience would be those doing the wrong thing and I have never met one.

Don't know about blowing things out of proportion, but you seem to be doing a good job of blowing a lot of stuff out an orifice. :D

[Swizzlestick]

The stunning that is done (reversible or irreversible, usually bolt gun or electric shock, sometimes gas) renders the animal unconscious and the animal must be bled out before it can regain consciousness (if it's a reversible stun). Therefore, the last thing the animal knows is the actual stun - there is no pain while it is bled out.

Sorry to go even more off topic, but am interested in the slaughterhouse side of things.

When the animal is stunned, can it definitely not feel anything after that, or is it that they just cannot move, but feel pain of the knife on their throat etc?

Genuine question. :D

I became a vegetarian a few years ago, for animal welfare reasons.

I know the majority of them would be killed humanely, but there also must be a few nutjobs out there working there because they derive pleasure from killings things.

I saw a doco from the UK about workers. One who loved the fact he was deliberately inflicting pain on the sheep he was slaughtering.

Transport is the other thing that worries me too.

Anyway, so again to go so far off topic.

I have 4 pet ferrets! Does that make up for my lack of on topic? :D Banjo, Slinky, Emma and Clinton (RIP Fletcher)

[stormie]

I know what my boss was upset about was how in some instances the stun gun didn't always work completely. My other vet friend witnessed an animal being led in to the shed before the body of the other one was taken away and she saw it completely freak out and desperate to escape, like it new it's fate.

The chickens are hung up by their feet and their heads dunked into electrified water - the chickens see the ones in front lowered and there's actually a person who has to stand there with a pole to push the heads under of the chickens who desperately try to hold their heads up out of the water.

[Flick_Mac]

Sir WJ - When they're stunned they're unconscious. It's like you becoming unconscious under anaesthetic I guess, or if you drank too much. You don't register the pain with a stun because the pain centres in your brain have been destroyed permanently or not (the cortex, which is one of the conscious parts)...

With the electric stun they acutally induce an epileptic seizure - it has to be a certain frequency to induce this and then like I said, they have to be bled before they're going to recover. With gas stunning it's a bit trickier because the person bleeding them can be exposed to the yucky gas, it takes a long time for them to become unconscious and depending on the gas, they can recover very quickly.

Sorry - my brain is stopping working - I've been at work all day after a long week at uni!

Stormie - like I said, the abbatoir I went to the guy with the stun gun has to be very accurate, and there is someone testing corneal reflexes ready with a second stun if neccessary. I didn't see a missed shot, but it would take all of maybe 5 secs to get the second stun to the cow.

Also, the way this abbatoir was set up the cows were fed in on a travellator for the last part, and they are kind of wedged in quite tight - this is supposed to calm them (similarly to how some autistic people find pressure calming), and they weren't lead in - it was all incredibly quick. They also didn't see the cow in front of them fall.

I've heard some not so nice things about chickens, but the way I understand it is that they are all put into the water bath at once, and then the electric neck-cutter is there. There is a person there to dunk their heads, to make sure they are shocked correctly, and while this isn't the nicest thing to do, it's far better than to have your neck slit while unconscious and then be scalded. There is also someone there to check everyone gets their neck cut, and if they've been missed they have it broken before scalding.

ETA - I'm just re-reading my lecture notes, and bolt guns to stun don't necessarily penetrate the brain, they actually cause concussion by delivering a high-velocity force over a small area, and a loss of consciousness (or cause insensibility as my notes say).

Edited October 9, 2010 by Flick_Mac

[Beth.]

I am not in the feeble habit of making "gross generalisations

Really? You seem to be doing a bang up job of it in this thread alone :D

hunting is a man's job

I choose not to keep company with women that are rough around the edges as that is the way that I potray women that are into hunting

I would assume that the butcher would have to be male

PMSL

I still can't get over Moselle posting these comments :D :p I really don't get it, and yes, it is quite offending - who thinks like that these days??!!!! Yep, still can't get my head around it!!

I also visited the abbotoir with Flick_mac, and I agree with all she said!!

I would love to come out ferreting, It seems so interesting!!! Is it sad I didn't even realise there were ferrets in Australia until like a year ago :p

[Red Fox]

Just curious - When hunting rabbits for food is calicivirus something that you need to worry about?

[Maddy]

I am not in the feeble habit of making "gross generalisations".....and I do know quite a fair few greyhound breeders/trainers hence my comments about this "sport." How many do you know? and are you in a position of assuring everyone that I am indeed blowing things out of all proportions??? There is always the exception to the rule and I am the first to admit that there may be a few individuals that are doing the right thing but they are the exception and not the rule.

I am and I know for a fact you're making gross generalisations that sound as if they've been ripped straight from a PETA website.

I've taken dogs from trainers that were born with minor health problems.. dogs that the trainers knew almost from day one would never race.. dogs that they still cared for and raised until they were old enough to be entered into GAP.. dogs that had been fed the best food available, exercised carefully every day, given names and treated far better than many pet dogs.

As for the live baiting, killing puppies, dosing up the dogs with.. whatever you think they're being dosed with.. no. That is not the norm and most certainly not every trainer or every breeder.

What dreck..