Im Devasted

[Miss B]

My vet said of all the cases they had this year(alot), they havent managed to save a single dog yet and has prepared me for the worst but with everything said here and the Vit K, why couldnt they save any? (Retorical question) He did say they could try the drip and blood transfusion but I dont understand how none have survived with all that treatment and all of these positive stories.

In all honesty, after hearing that - I'd be switching vets!!

Given that you've caught it this early, this is very little reason why your dogs should not survive, given the proper care.

[asal]

the other question that immediately sprang to mind is your vet prescribing sufficient dosage of the vit K for the past patients?

to lose em all is a worry to me

having lost a friend to warfarin, (many people are on it) trouble is they have to be sooo careful) in his case he had a fall and cut himself, by the time he got back to the house to call for help it was too late.

[stormie]

My vet said of all the cases they had this year(alot), they havent managed to save a single dog yet and has prepared me for the worst but with everything said here and the Vit K, why couldnt they save any? (Retorical question) He did say they could try the drip and blood transfusion but I dont understand how none have survived with all that treatment and all of these positive stories.

In all honesty, after hearing that - I'd be switching vets!!

Given that you've caught it this early, this is very little reason why your dogs should not survive, given the proper care.

Must say I found this a little weird as well, though obviously we don't know the circumstances of the other cases.

We've had many cases of dogs eating rat baits and from memory, in 5 years, only lost one - a puppy who was eating bait for a period of time without the owners knowing. It was then apparently kicked ( ) off their child when it jumped up and as you can imagine, started hemorrhaging and by the time they got it to the clinic, it was too late.

The bait just works by stopping blood clotting. It doesn't really 'poison' them in any other way.

You got to your vet and started treatment (the antidote, as such) in plenty of time so again, unless you've been given the wrong dose, I'm not sure why the prognosis appears to be so poor. Obviously with things like this the Vit K is not a guarantee but I think we'd be pretty surprised if, in a situation as yours, you still lost one or both of your dogs.

[persephone]

How are they this morning?

Must admit to also being concerned the vet has lost all previous cases

I hope they are doing regular tests to see what is happening with the treatment .. that way you know exactly , and don't have the guesswork /worry.

[Staff'n'Toller]

You can call one of the animal emergency centres in your State anytime and check the dosage of Vitamin K is correct julzjc, a nurse or vet there should be happy to help you out on the phone.

[spottychick]

ifitwere me I'd be getting a second or even third opinion from other vets. I learnt that lesson last year.....

[Everythings Shiny]

If a vet can't save ANY rait bait poisonings, I'd be worried about their competency in treating it. We give a very high dosage of Vit K and normally an injection of it before they leave. We have lost 1 in 18 months, that was due to the owner leaving it too long and brought it in when it was bleed so badly there was nothing to be done

I wouldn't be staying with that vet unless they had a better track record with this

[Crisovar]

If a vet can't save ANY rait bait poisonings, I'd be worried about their competency in treating it. We give a very high dosage of Vit K and normally an injection of it before they leave. We have lost 1 in 18 months, that was due to the owner leaving it too long and brought it in when it was bleed so badly there was nothing to be done ;)

I wouldn't be staying with that vet unless they had a better track record with this ;)

We don't know what stage the treated dogs were at.

If people don't know the dogs have eaten the bait or only seek treatment after they start bleeding it would be quite possible for them to lose them all.

[Miss B]

If a vet can't save ANY rait bait poisonings, I'd be worried about their competency in treating it. We give a very high dosage of Vit K and normally an injection of it before they leave. We have lost 1 in 18 months, that was due to the owner leaving it too long and brought it in when it was bleed so badly there was nothing to be done ;)

I wouldn't be staying with that vet unless they had a better track record with this ;)

We don't know what stage the treated dogs were at.

If people don't know the dogs have eaten the bait or only seek treatment after they start bleeding it would be quite possible for them to lose them all.

But to say that the vet has seen "a lot" of cases and hasn't managed to save a single one?? My clinic has also seen a lot of ratbait cases yet we haven't lost a single dog. I also find it weird that the vet is preparing her "for the worst" and telling her she may only have 10-14 days left with her dogs... it just doesn't add up to me.

[cavNrott]

But to say that the vet has seen "a lot" of cases and hasn't managed to save a single one?? My clinic has also seen a lot of ratbait cases yet we haven't lost a single dog. I also find it weird that the vet is preparing her "for the worst" and telling her she may only have 10-14 days left with her dogs... it just doesn't add up to me.

I agree, this is a totally different from the reaction I got from my vet. After they did the ACT test she told me she injected the Vit K shot in five places and advised me about the tablets and said they are more effective given with something fatty like butter. So my dog had his tablets with butter. He thought they were a special treat.

Not once did they suggest my dog had a slim chance of survival. They were quite optimistic and encouraging. We discussed my dogs recovery rather than his demise and they told me what to watch out for, pale gums, any bruising etc., They also phoned me every couple of days to see how he was doing. They did tell me to bring him straight in if I had any concerns and to make sure he was kept very quiet. No walking, no playing etc.,

Really I think the vet has caused the OP a lot of stress that she could well do without. I would be very concerned about their lack of success in every single case of rat bait ingestion. Why the hell did they need to say that anyway? Very strange for any vet to be telling clients about their treatment failures.

[OSoSwift]

I think I remember in 15 years of nursing, definately losing one who was a small dog, eaten a huge dose and not presented until very very unwell, and possible another?????

They have been big, small, old, young.

I have had two friends have dogs with it. One was a 6 year old BC who they found having a HUGE nose bleed. Took him to the vets PCV 18 got treatment, still alive today.

Another friend had an 9mth old Stumpy tailed bitch, eaten a large amount over time. Presented very flat PCV 15 or slightly lower?? can't remember for sure.

She deteriorated in the time she walked through the door, had a brain bleed and fitted, was blind for a time but did eventually gain most of her sight back. The worst case ever presented to the clinic and she is still alive today.

I would also be concerned if the vet had lost ALL cases so far this year. I would also be checking what sort of doseage of Vit K they are on.

Good luck and I hope your dogs are fine, I would however take your very quiet one to have her PCV checked.

[OSoSwift]

Oh and definately NO exercise, crate them or keep them inside.

Outside to the toilet and that is it, I wouldn't let the kids pat them too hard or play with them at all. They shouldn't bleed on Vit K but it is best to be sure.

[ozjen]

Sorry I havent been online. We lost a friend to cancer last night. The last two weeks have been hell.

So far so good-ish. Indie seems normal so far but Bonnie is very lethargic. Her gums are a very light salmon colour now (usually bright red). She is drinking gallons of water but is still eating ok, she wont play (usually she is flat chat doing zoomies and wrestling in the yard), only wants to sleep on the sofa or sunbake in the grass. She is so quiet. I think Bonnie must have eaten most/all of it as Indie is only 20kg whilst Bon is 25kg so surely he would have been affected sooner. My poor girl.

After talking to the manufacturer of the bait, they said it would take 7-10days for the symtoms(bleeding) to appear, so we will know by Wednesday how they are coping. With all your positive stories and prayers I have so much hope that they may pull through this. My poor OH is still kicking himself everytime he looks at them. Needless to say the bait went straight into the outside bin and will never be near our house again. Im acting normal on the outside, just gutted on in the inside, I dont want my emotions to rub off on the kids and the dogs. Kids are already asking me why the dogs have to take tablets daily and why Bonnie wont play with them, I just said they have sore tummys and hopefully the tablets will make them feel better. Taking oh so many photos of my beautiful pups just incase the worst happens. Thankyou so much for all your kind words and for the candles, they are lovely.

Julzjc

Geez, I'm so sorry about the loss of your friend, you guys certainly are having a bad run at the moment. I really hope the dogs pulling through this will be the start of some good stuff happening in your lives, sounds like you are overdue for some positive stuff to happen. Thinking of you all.

[Lab_Rat]

Hope your babies recover............Sorry youve had such a crap few weeks....Big Hugs to you and your Family.

[ridgiemum]

Hope your babies are getting better. :p

[spottychick]

I was house-sitting a neighbours house when Pepper was only about a year old. I brought my dogs with me and I was doing something in the kitchen when I looked down and saw Pepper polishing off a carton of rat poison. I immediately reached for a salt container and shoved salt and my fingers down her mouth and an agonisingly long time later she vomited up a whole lot of green stuff. I raced home, rang my vet and talked about it with him.

He was very encouraging. In Pepper's case she'd just eaten dinner before hand and she'd managed to vomit her stomach contents so he didn't think she'd be in trouble. But he told me the symptoms to look for in case she had some still in her. He mentioned Vit K treatment and was very reassuring about how successful he'd been using that to treat cases of poisoning.

Pepper was totally fine - she clearly didn't retain any poison. But I kept a close eye on her for the next few days and also gave her supplements in her diet to boost her immunity and general health for the next month or so.

My point is that while rat poisoning can be fatal it's NOT a death sentence - especially if you get it early enough.

I am continuing to keep your pooches in my thoughts.

[mac'ella]

Just a tip for anyone who has to use rat bait near their pets use a glass jar with a screw on metal lid cut a small hole 1/2'' max in the lid and use the block type baits.the mice will eat the bait in the jar then go away to die,for further insurance place the jar behind something where your pets cant reach,I use this method in my bird aviaries and have never had a problem.Also store any excess in a larger jar or tin,again with a screw on or lockable lid,I hope this can prevent any further heartache.

[Sheridan]

Just a tip for anyone who has to use rat bait near their pets use a glass jar with a screw on metal lid cut a small hole 1/2'' max in the lid and use the block type baits.the mice will eat the bait in the jar then go away to die,for further insurance place the jar behind something where your pets cant reach,I use this method in my bird aviaries and have never had a problem.Also store any excess in a larger jar or tin,again with a screw on or lockable lid,I hope this can prevent any further heartache.

Will the mouse conveniently die outside my yard so my dog won't then eat the dead mouse and ingest the poison?

[mac'ella]

Just a tip for anyone who has to use rat bait near their pets use a glass jar with a screw on metal lid cut a small hole 1/2'' max in the lid and use the block type baits.the mice will eat the bait in the jar then go away to die,for further insurance place the jar behind something where your pets cant reach,I use this method in my bird aviaries and have never had a problem.Also store any excess in a larger jar or tin,again with a screw on or lockable lid,I hope this can prevent any further heartache.

Will the mouse conveniently die outside my yard so my dog won't then eat the dead mouse and ingest the poison?

this was just some advice for those who have to use it to prevent their dogs getting hold of it in the 1st place, is there any stats on how much poison remains active in a dead mouse and whether this is enough to harm a dog?All my neighbours have dogs and cats big and small and no reported poisonings so maybe they do have a little mouse graveyard where they go to die

[aussielover]

If a vet can't save ANY rait bait poisonings, I'd be worried about their competency in treating it. We give a very high dosage of Vit K and normally an injection of it before they leave. We have lost 1 in 18 months, that was due to the owner leaving it too long and brought it in when it was bleed so badly there was nothing to be done

I wouldn't be staying with that vet unless they had a better track record with this

We don't know what stage the treated dogs were at.

If people don't know the dogs have eaten the bait or only seek treatment after they start bleeding it would be quite possible for them to lose them all.

Even so, I'm surprised the vet would give such a poor prognosis to the OPs dogs who have been treated extremely early before exhibiting and clinical signs.

We've successfully treated dogs that have already started haemorrhaging.

If the animals receive a vit K injection and then daily tablets, in theory they should be ok (if they haven't lost tooo much blood in the first place). I would be keeping them crated or at least very quiet so they don't have any opportunity to start bleeding.

Anyway fingers crossed for the OPs doggies