Another Dog Park Question

[Remarkabull]

A DA dog can still attack another dog whether it is on leash or not.

I know my DA dog has grabbed another dog while she was on lead. The dog she grabbed was not. It was on a public footpath and the owner had let her dog out the front door and it ran towards us. She called the dog, it ignored her and my dog was giving very clear signals about her intentions towards this dog and it continued to run to us and jump on her shoulder and put it's face in hers.

After we separated the dogs and I took mine home and went back to check if her dog was ok (it was, just sore and sorry but no punctures) she proceeded to give me a lecture about how I shouldn't own a dog like that and that it is irresponsible of me to keep her especially as I have kids (she is lovely with people and especially loves children and is very gentle with them, she just doesn't like other dogs). She had no idea that she was in the wrong. Her dog was off lead and not under effective control, mine was.

[Red Fox]

and how do you know it is not a high risk dog?? would you risk your dog/child? If yes well then im glad i dont live with you. Why should she or anyone have to have a lead on their dog just "incase" its gets in the dogs face and attack!! If the dog is aggressive then that dog should be the one on the lead. So a dog has to attack a person or dog to be labelled as 'a danger'.. Havent you heard of a preventative measure.. Maybe then there wouldnt be as many dog attacks!!

You don't. You don't know that ANY dog in the park is not a high risk dog. You don't know that every owner will have control over their dog. You don't know that an owner will tell you whether or not their dog is friendly, or aggressive, or reactive, or doesn't like small/big dogs, or if that owner has a clue about dog behaviour and could even read the signs. Not every DA dog wears a muzzle and not every owner is responsible.

I'm sure the law states that the dogs must be under effective control. Perhaps if THAT rule were followed then there would be a lot less dog attacks.

[Earthdog]

You have gone off the point, you said quote "Frankly if all dog owners kept their dogs under control and away from other dogs unless invited then people like me might actually be able to use dog parks without having our dogs attacked" to me that sounds like you are blaming other dog owners for their dogs "not being under control"

\

Well, who would you blame for a dog not under effective control??? Ronald McDonald? I think not. Of course it is the owners' resposibility.

[kelpiechick]

EVERY person who takes their dog to a dog park is responsible for controlling their dog. It's not a case of different rules for different people.

Who said the OP was in the wrong? Certainly not me.

What was said was that the guy that yelled at her may simply have been trying to ensure that the OP took his request to keep her dog away from his SERIOUSLY. God knows a lot of folk neither listen nor respond to such requests when made politely.

I hope you understand that most dogs, given sufficent provocation from a rude strange dog WILL snap. Snapping is a warning - not an "attack".

A dog under effective control does not blow off its owner and run up to other dogs. Not all dogs care to interact with strange dogs. It pays to bear that in mind

Well said !

[Shaar]

If you go to a park and you know you have a dog who is a bit touchy with other animals, PUT A MUZZLE ON IT. Yes aggressive dogs are allowed to be exercised too but what if a SWF runs up to your dog and the owner has no control over it? Yelling "keep your dog away" to the owner isn't going to do jack sh*t with a dog who has bad recall.

When you go to a dog park you shouldn't have to worry about your dog having it's head ripped off. Although a lot of dogs at the park are badly trained I would fully expect them to either be not aggressive, or muzzled if they are.

And paint a big target on its arse because you've just made it a sitting duck.

I don't take my reactive dog to the park. Neither do most owners in the peak user times. I'd never take a muzzled dog to one.

I just love when a dog stalks up fully hackled up with its tail over its back and the owner says "he's just being friendly".

The sad fact is that the ignorance and lack of consideration displayed by some dog owners means that dog parks are a no go zone for many others. No one I know that I consider knowledgeable about dogs will go near a public dog park in the busy times. :cool:

There are several greyhounds that go to our local park muzzled and no-one really thinks anything of it, I personally just think, well, being the breed they are they probably like to take a snap at small fluffies, good on them for being responsible.

One of them loves playing with the smaller dogs, it's just a precaution.

I do get your point though, not everyone sees muzzles as a precaution.

I do not go to that park any more, it's not in the best area of town and there are too many idiots. Much prefer to go to one of the more secluded ones.

If you go to a park and you know you have a dog who is a bit touchy with other animals, PUT A MUZZLE ON IT. Yes aggressive dogs are allowed to be exercised too but what if a SWF runs up to your dog and the owner has no control over it? Yelling "keep your dog away" to the owner isn't going to do jack sh*t with a dog who has bad recall.

When you go to a dog park you shouldn't have to worry about your dog having it's head ripped off. Although a lot of dogs at the park are badly trained I would fully expect them to either be not aggressive, or muzzled if they are.

If a dog owner has no control or recall then they need to keep their dog on a lead. That's the law - dogs are required to be under effective control at all times.

Tell that to the people in the park I mentioned above. Rarely is there a dog there that comes when called... no-one does anything about it because no-one cares.

I admit that mine do not have very good recall, if I scream bloody murder at them and they know I am serious they will stop in their tracks and come back to me but most people just go "come on little foo-foo, nice foo-foo come to mummy" while their dog is bolting in the other direction.

[Danois]

Shaar - Greyhounds who are retired racers must be muzzled in public (talking nsw here)

[Shaar]

Oh yep, it's the law here too, but with any breed (greyhounds just were the first one I thought of) I wouldn't necessarily think the worst of the dog just because it had a muzzle on.

As I said, not everyone thinks that way though and some might automatically think it's a killer attack dog just because the owner is being responsible.

[poochiemama]

Aussielover,

I think it's ridiculous and horrific that people have to say things like 'My dog will rip your dog's head off' just for the purpose of having that part of the park to themselves. It's completely selfish. I don't like the attitude that people feel it's within their right to make this sort of comment or to 'exaggerate' just to get over-friendly dogs away from them. If your dog is that aggressive/reactive, it has no place in an offleash park where the likelihood of a dog running up to them is so high. It DOES happen whether you like it or not, it happens EVERY DAY, and dogs get bitten EVERY DAY as a result of this. Aggressive dogs must be muzzled, on leash, and away from these public places - especially a dog who is likely to 'rip' another dog's head off; exaggeration or not, I can see why this comment bothered you.

It's a public dog park. and you have an absolute right to use it without fearing for your dog's life or being 'threatened' in this way.

I don't think you can report this guy as nothing happened... but pls be very careful with your beautiful dog in the park as unfortunately these sort of people are everywhere.

It's sad - I used to think that 'dog people' were a special breed - kinder, more accepting etc but I guess they are humans just like everyone else, with the same mix of rudeness and selfishness as everyone else

[Crisovar]

How about - people should have control over their dogs and they should not be running up into the faces of other dogs?

How about - he did not know if you have control over your dog and that it was reliable 100% of the time to recall to you and in his opinion it was not worth the risk of having your dog get in his dog's face.

There is nothing to report - you simply got offended at how someone spoke to you - maybe he was pissed off that other dogs had raced up to them as their owners had no control and he saw your dog approaching and went - oh god not again.

This happens time and time again, and so I avoid dog parks like the plague, I could very well have been this guy in the same situation.

I will never understand why people allow dogs to do this.

[Crisovar]

Aussielover,

I think it's ridiculous and horrific that people have to say things like 'My dog will rip your dog's head off' just for the purpose of having that part of the park to themselves. It's completely selfish. I don't like the attitude that people feel it's within their right to make this sort of comment or to 'exaggerate' just to get over-friendly dogs away from them. If your dog is that aggressive/reactive, it has no place in an offleash park where the likelihood of a dog running up to them is so high. It DOES happen whether you like it or not, it happens EVERY DAY, and dogs get bitten EVERY DAY as a result of this. Aggressive dogs must be muzzled, on leash, and away from these public places - especially a dog who is likely to 'rip' another dog's head off; exaggeration or not, I can see why this comment bothered you.

It's a public dog park. and you have an absolute right to use it without fearing for your dog's life or being 'threatened' in this way.

I don't think you can report this guy as nothing happened... but pls be very careful with your beautiful dog in the park as unfortunately these sort of people are everywhere.

It's sad - I used to think that 'dog people' were a special breed - kinder, more accepting etc but I guess they are humans just like everyone else, with the same mix of rudeness and selfishness as everyone else

Why can't the owners of the over friendly dogs simply keep them in their own space??

It is public park and as such people should be able to walk their own dog without being run at bounced over and greeted by every dog in sight.

[Henrietta]

I can understand this guy, I really can. In the heat of the moment it can be extremely frustrating. I've been called a bitch for making my point a little bit more strongly in the past. Well, it was more in the tone of my voice. I said the usual, 'Please keep your dog away' only to be assured, 'oh, she just wants to say hi'. 'My dog doesn't want to say hi! She is UNFRIENDLY. PLEASE take your dog away'.

'Ahh, your a #*$%&* bitch' I actually laughed at this women. And moved on to another place. Some people won't listen or comply to your request or even comprehend what you are saying, no matter how bloody clear you are. 'Please keep your dog away, she doesn't like other dogs' or 'she's not friendly' just don't seem to work for the vast majority of people.

My only saving grace I think, is I go to places that have a very low probability of other dogs being around offlead. I would have given up going out in public a long time ago I think. I've been told time and time again that I shouldn't pick my dog up either (and I agree theoretically I shouldn't) but unfortunately now I do. I try and do this before the other dog comes, as calmly as possible and I usually shove her face with food. I practice this manouvre without dogs coming as well. It's not worth my dog's life. I'm not really cut out for this behaviour modification, I suppose. ;)

Edit - I should add that my dog is never offlead in public.

Edited September 29, 2010 by Emm

[bark]

This is a interesting point, especially with the varying replies received.

I was talking to a dog trainer who is very experienced in dog behaviour and he said that alot of dog owners who frequent dog parks probably shouldn't be there because they don't have sufficient control over their dog.

Having said that this guy warned you to keep away from his dog and given that he had gone at an off peak time, he was doing what was reasonable to avoid contact with other dogs whilst exercising his dog. Under these circumstances I don't think there's anything to report; it would be a different matter if he'd gone at a peak time.

[chellz]

You have gone off the point, you said quote "Frankly if all dog owners kept their dogs under control and away from other dogs unless invited then people like me might actually be able to use dog parks without having our dogs attacked" to me that sounds like you are blaming other dog owners for their dogs "not being under control"

\

Well, who would you blame for a dog not under effective control??? Ronald McDonald? I think not. Of course it is the owners' resposibility.

thats was not the question love,im guessing you should read all the blog posts before replying, the post wasent about her dog not being under control it was about an agressive dog being off the lead! So the quote i was refering to had no relevence unless she was blaming other dog owners including the one starting this post

Edited September 29, 2010 by chellz

[Kavik]

Aggressive dogs must be muzzled, on leash, and away from these public places - especially a dog who is likely to 'rip' another dog's head off; exaggeration or not, I can see why this comment bothered you.

Unless the dog is declared dangerous, it does NOT have to be muzzled or on leash. Safer to keep dogs which do not like other dogs on leash yes, but this still does not solve the problem of idiots with dogs off leash or on extendable leads who refuse to listen to you when you are walking on the footpath (where dogs by law have to be on leash) when you tell them your dog is NOT friendly and you are in a driveway or the edge of the footpath giving them as much space as possible to pass. When you are being courteous and giving them the whole footpath and then some and they still proceed to allow their dog up which is pulling and straining on the lead.

[chellz]

Aussielover,

I think it's ridiculous and horrific that people have to say things like 'My dog will rip your dog's head off' just for the purpose of having that part of the park to themselves. It's completely selfish. I don't like the attitude that people feel it's within their right to make this sort of comment or to 'exaggerate' just to get over-friendly dogs away from them. If your dog is that aggressive/reactive, it has no place in an offleash park where the likelihood of a dog running up to them is so high. It DOES happen whether you like it or not, it happens EVERY DAY, and dogs get bitten EVERY DAY as a result of this. Aggressive dogs must be muzzled, on leash, and away from these public places - especially a dog who is likely to 'rip' another dog's head off; exaggeration or not, I can see why this comment bothered you.

It's a public dog park. and you have an absolute right to use it without fearing for your dog's life or being 'threatened' in this way.

I don't think you can report this guy as nothing happened... but pls be very careful with your beautiful dog in the park as unfortunately these sort of people are everywhere.

It's sad - I used to think that 'dog people' were a special breed - kinder, more accepting etc but I guess they are humans just like everyone else, with the same mix of rudeness and selfishness as everyone else ;)

Why can't the owners of the over friendly dogs simply keep them in their own space??

It is public park and as such people should be able to walk their own dog without being run at bounced over and greeted by every dog in sight.

thats what ive been trying to tell her but of course she dosent read that part lol.. obviously she is thinking an agressive dog still has a right to be off lead BUT she is forgetting the first part 'AGGRESSIVE'

Edited September 29, 2010 by chellz

[poodlefan]

Chellz:

You have mis quoted me quite a few times as well, like i have said before unless the dog is declared a danger and has attacked then you cannot report it but in saying that irresponsible owners who dont keep their aggressive dogs on a leash is just a disaster waiting to happen and if those aggressive dogs are just "warning to stay away" then why are their so many dog attacks?

Given that I cut and paste from your posts to quote them, I find it difficult to understand how you think I'm misquoting you.

Why are there so many dog attacks? Where do I start?

* Failure to socialise effectively. Turning your young dog loose in an offlead park to "work it out for themselves" is not effective socialisation. It can teach a dog rough play AND escalate aggressive reactions to inappropriate dogs who aren't controlled by their owners.

* Failure by owners to read their dogs body language, to understand the basic nature of dogs AND to intervene before things get out of hand.

* Failure by owners of many dogs to effectively control them

* Failure by owners of rude, inappropriate dogs to keep them away from others and to recognise that their dogs are not "friendly" but rude.

* Failure by owners of timid, reactive or downright aggressive dogs to realise that a busy dog park is a place to be avoided.

Have a read of "He just wants to say hi" on this website - its a good introduction to the issue of dog greetings.

Edited September 29, 2010 by poodlefan

[chellz]

Aussielover,

I think it's ridiculous and horrific that people have to say things like 'My dog will rip your dog's head off' just for the purpose of having that part of the park to themselves. It's completely selfish. I don't like the attitude that people feel it's within their right to make this sort of comment or to 'exaggerate' just to get over-friendly dogs away from them. If your dog is that aggressive/reactive, it has no place in an offleash park where the likelihood of a dog running up to them is so high. It DOES happen whether you like it or not, it happens EVERY DAY, and dogs get bitten EVERY DAY as a result of this. Aggressive dogs must be muzzled, on leash, and away from these public places - especially a dog who is likely to 'rip' another dog's head off; exaggeration or not, I can see why this comment bothered you.

It's a public dog park. and you have an absolute right to use it without fearing for your dog's life or being 'threatened' in this way.

I don't think you can report this guy as nothing happened... but pls be very careful with your beautiful dog in the park as unfortunately these sort of people are everywhere.

It's sad - I used to think that 'dog people' were a special breed - kinder, more accepting etc but I guess they are humans just like everyone else, with the same mix of rudeness and selfishness as everyone else

Why can't the owners of the over friendly dogs simply keep them in their own space??

It is public park and as such people should be able to walk their own dog without being run at bounced over and greeted by every dog in sight.

I agree BUT the point is their is an agressive dog that is off its leash.. If it is known to be agressive why should the responsible dog owners be the ones to try and keep away from the agressive dog!! You cant blame them and if the friendly dog dosent even go near the aggressive dog who says the dog dosent turn and run up to it(and dont tell me an agressive dog wont turn unless they are under threat) its an animal, if it is prone to be agressive(like the owner repied 'it will rip your dogs head off' its a high risk dog and shouldnt be able to be in these areas where there are other dogs and people.

Edited September 29, 2010 by chellz

[aussielover]

Aussielover,

I think it's ridiculous and horrific that people have to say things like 'My dog will rip your dog's head off' just for the purpose of having that part of the park to themselves. It's completely selfish. I don't like the attitude that people feel it's within their right to make this sort of comment or to 'exaggerate' just to get over-friendly dogs away from them. If your dog is that aggressive/reactive, it has no place in an offleash park where the likelihood of a dog running up to them is so high. It DOES happen whether you like it or not, it happens EVERY DAY, and dogs get bitten EVERY DAY as a result of this. Aggressive dogs must be muzzled, on leash, and away from these public places - especially a dog who is likely to 'rip' another dog's head off; exaggeration or not, I can see why this comment bothered you.

It's a public dog park. and you have an absolute right to use it without fearing for your dog's life or being 'threatened' in this way.

I don't think you can report this guy as nothing happened... but pls be very careful with your beautiful dog in the park as unfortunately these sort of people are everywhere.

It's sad - I used to think that 'dog people' were a special breed - kinder, more accepting etc but I guess they are humans just like everyone else, with the same mix of rudeness and selfishness as everyone else

Why can't the owners of the over friendly dogs simply keep them in their own space??

It is public park and as such people should be able to walk their own dog without being run at bounced over and greeted by every dog in sight.

Well in this situation my dog was not "bouncing" over to his, in fact she was off in the oppsite direction having a sniff. We were a good 500m away from this guy and his dog when he called out to us, we were not in his space. This area of the park is a walk thru area to others parts of the park.

As soon as he spoke to us I called her over to me, put her on lead (not taking any chances with a dog that could rip her head off) and walked her away from them back in the direction we had come.

Why should I have to leash my dog and vacate the area for rude guy and his potentially aggressive dog.

Yes, i could have stayed at a distance and played or trained her there, but i do not wish to risk her life just to prove a point. I at least understand that dogs can be dogs and even the best trained dog can suddenly take off, take fright or whatever.

[chellz]

Chellz:

You have mis quoted me quite a few times as well, like i have said before unless the dog is declared a danger and has attacked then you cannot report it but in saying that irresponsible owners who dont keep their aggressive dogs on a leash is just a disaster waiting to happen and if those aggressive dogs are just "warning to stay away" then why are their so many dog attacks?

Given that I cut and paste from your posts to quote them, I find it difficult to understand how you think I'm misquoting you.

Why are there so many dog attacks? Where do I start?

* Failure to socialise effectively. Turning your young dog loose in an offlead park to "work it out for themselves" is not effective socialisation. It can teach a dog rough play AND escalate aggressive reactions to inappropriate dogs who aren't controlled by their owners.

* Failure by owners to read their dogs body language, to understand the basic nature of dogs AND to intervene before things get out of hand.

* Failure by owners of many dogs to effectively control them

* Failure by owners of rude, inappropriate dogs to keep them away from others and to recognise that their dogs are not "friendly" but rude.

* Failure by owners of timid, reactive or downright aggressive dogs to realise that a busy dog park is a place to be avoided.

Have a read of "He just wants to say hi" on this website - its a good introduction to the issue of dog greetings.

Okay thats a new one!! Its the owners fault the dog attacks.. just when i thought ive heard it all..

you need to rethink what you just said and read this ' A dog is an animal' They are not human!! A friendly dog (even the most common friendly breed the labrador' can still attack another dog or a human. .

If you are going to read anything i have said(which clearly you havent done previously) ill put this simple.

1. If the owner has an agressive dog(which clearly what the owner stated "keep your dog away or it will rip its head off" it should NEVER be in an off leash area where there are other dogs or people around (like the OP said it is a well known popular dog park'

2. If the dog didnt attack or hasent attacked another person or dog then no you can report it (unless the dog is deemed dangerous it should have a MUZZLE and be on a lead)

3. You cant blame other dog owners for not having their dog under control (its in an off leash area in a popular park, they have a right to walk their dog without worrying that their is an agressive dog on the loose (which i have already pointed out an aggressive dog should be on a leash anyways and if the aggressive dog is on a leash and the owner of the friendly dog approaches then yes it would be the dog of the owner with a friendly dogs fault ) but the main point an agressive dog should not be off the lead like the OP stated.

4. Any dog can attack, it could be off or on the lead, a friendly, agressive or timid dog.. they are an animal and anyone who says otherwise is just plain ignorant.

I could go on but considering you probally have already got a reply in your head and are not paying attention ill end it there! I have said all these points in previous posts so feel free to go back over them..

Edited September 29, 2010 by chellz

[poochiemama]

I think this thread has turned into 'rude / boisterous dogs rushing a reactive dog '...

But aussielover's post was actually something different - her dog was not rushing the reactive dog... she was minding her own business and walking in the park when this guy made the comment.

I can understand how some people are anxious about over-friendly dogs rushing their reactive dogs...i totally get it, i would be anxious too. But equally, people have a right to get anxious if an aggressive dog is running around off-lead in close proximity to their dogs. I just don't think it's safe, for any of the parties involved. I am talking about offleash dog parks, not walking on a sideway or on the street, in which case, dogs must be on leash and then these incidents shouldn't happen ( I also hate it when people come up to me in the street saying 'my dog just wants to say hi' because a lot of the times, their dogs ARE reactive and I prefer to just walk in peace, I've actually started saying 'sorry, it's better not to as she's just had a bad experience with a dog').

The thing is, many people with reactive dogs have commented 'Well , I have a right to be there and people with no effective control don't have a right to be in the dog park' - I think part of the problem is 'effective control' is quite hard to define...a dog's recall might be 99% (I don't think there is such a thing as 100% recall) - but what about that 1% chance that the dog will run over? Even in a perfect world, with all dog owners who take their dogs to the park having perfect control over their dogs, there will be incidents where the dogs will mess up (they're dogs after all, they're not perfect, and neither are we humans).

So the best thing is for all parties to be as safe and responsible as possible. Yes, this includes dog owners trying to ensure as good a recall as possible; but it also includes dog owners keeping others safe from their reactive dogs. I know that legally a dog that hasn't been declared dangerous (YET) doesn't have to be muzzled, but wouldn't it be safer for everyone involved if a dog who can potentially 'rip' another dog's head off is muzzled? Just in the interest of public safety? AND definitely on a leash...

Also 'effective control' applies also to owners with reactive/DA dogs. If an aggressive dog attacks mine, can that dog owner say their dog is under control??