Dogs And Tricks

[huski]

How many dogs do you know that "naturally" goose step like that? The dog's reaching skywards with its front legs. Its doing that due to its head position.

The dogs's muzzle also constantly bangs the handlers leg. At points the dog almost appears to be mouthing the handler.

More contact may look like more focus but I'd hope like hell he'd be marked down for it in Australia. That left turn just about has an extra cue with the handlers arm action to.

Very impressive training - but can you imagine trying to spend a day out shooting with a dog doing that?

My dog will 'raise' his front legs out like that with little guidance if anything from me, he has practically had zero obedience training, and obviously not to that extent, but he does do it.

Considering it was Schutzhund he wouldn't be marked down for it here in Australia AFAIK.

In obedience, he could be marked for crowding depending on the judge.

[poodlefan]

How many dogs do you know that "naturally" goose step like that? The dog's reaching skywards with its front legs. Its doing that due to its head position.

The dogs's muzzle also constantly bangs the handlers leg. At points the dog almost appears to be mouthing the handler.

More contact may look like more focus but I'd hope like hell he'd be marked down for it in Australia. That left turn just about has an extra cue with the handlers arm action to.

Very impressive training - but can you imagine trying to spend a day out shooting with a dog doing that?

My dog will 'raise' his front legs out like that with little guidance if anything from me, he has practically had zero obedience training, and obviously not to that extent, but he does do it.

Considering it was Schutzhund he wouldn't be marked down for it here in Australia AFAIK.

In obedience, he could be marked for crowding depending on the judge.

I can't comment on Schutzhund other than noting that I'd not like to have a security/working dog heeling that tightly on me. The dog is definitely constraining the handler's freedom of movement.

[persephone]

hmm.. after watching this , I can understand why people see obedience trained dogs as 'robots'.

It certainly is not anything I would be interested in ..I do not find it attractive , or showing off a dog's cleverness (apologies)

[lovemesideways]

I consider anything you teach a dog could be called a trick.

I don't.

There are tricks, then there are basic manners every dog should know. Like, Not to pull on lead, jump on strangers, toilet training, no mouthing and quite a bit more.

Same way a kid is taught to be polite and eat with the knife and fork in the correct hand.

[huski]

Personally I like the heelwork here;

[persephone]

I consider anything you teach a dog could be called a trick.

I don't.

There are tricks, then there are basic manners every dog should know. Like, Not to pull on lead, jump on strangers, toilet training, no mouthing and quite a bit more.

Same way a kid is taught to be polite and eat with the knife and fork in the correct hand.

Good point

[huski]

hmm.. after watching this , I can understand why people see obedience trained dogs as 'robots'.

It certainly is not anything I would be interested in ..I do not find it attractive , or showing off a dog's cleverness (apologies)

Did you see the vids I posted of my dog persephone? More than anything, I want a dog who looks happy to work. IMO, you see far too many dogs in the obedience ring who do not look happy to be there or who look like they are just going through the motions.

[poodlefan]

Personally I like the heelwork here;

Dog is making physical contact with handler who uses his leg to guide the dog at one point.

Too damn tight!!!

[huski]

PF do you have a video example of what you class as nice heelwork? Just so I can see what you prefer to see.

ETA: I have a few Aussie examples I'd love to share but I don't want to post them without permission I've not had anyone ping me for crowding in the ring yet in mock trials or the real deal (though we are just starting out) and I like my dog quite close.

Edited September 28, 2010 by huski

[poodlefan]

PF do you have a video example of what you class as nice heelwork? Just so I can see what you prefer to see.

ETA: I have a few Aussie examples I'd love to share but I don't want to post them without permission I've not had anyone ping me for crowding in the ring yet in mock trials or the real deal (though we are just starting out) and I like my dog quite close.

Was just on Utube looking for one.

I like the figure 8 in

That starts at the 2 minute mark in this. The dog is focussed but there is clear daylight between dog and handler. Edited September 28, 2010 by poodlefan

[huski]

PF do you have a video example of what you class as nice heelwork? Just so I can see what you prefer to see.

ETA: I have a few Aussie examples I'd love to share but I don't want to post them without permission I've not had anyone ping me for crowding in the ring yet in mock trials or the real deal (though we are just starting out) and I like my dog quite close.

Was just on Utube looking for one.

I like the figure 8 in

That starts at the 2 minute mark in this. The dog is focussed but there is clear daylight between dog and handler.

LOL!

I think that's nice work. He's a bit slow to sit and in other places, but I would love to watch a dog that happy in the ring

Ptolomy and Bedazzled always have beautiful heelwork, if they pop in, hopefully they will share a video

[poodlefan]

LOL!

I think that's nice work. He's a bit slow to sit and in other places, but I would love to watch a dog that happy in the ring

Ptolomy and Bedazzled always have beautiful heelwork, if they pop in, hopefully they will share a video

I like "happy". I don't like 'obsessed'. Maybe that's how the working dog folk like it but in the video you posted, the dog is actually looking back over its shoulders for most of the heel work.

Imagine trying to walk like that on uneven ground. Imagine doing it for 20 minutes. It's just not natural. A dog can cue off more than the handers eyes!!!

Edited September 28, 2010 by poodlefan

[haylz27]

Wow... those dog's paws look like they are levitating off the ground. I agree with PF it does look rather.. odd or unnatural.

I have taught my dog some "tricks". Mainly because she loves training with me, we enjoy it and it strengthens our bond. She knows all the basics such as sit, down, stay, recall, wait ect. Then there's others such as sit pretty, roll over, wave, high 5, cross paws, spin, go to your mat/bed, take food gently ect. I enjoy teaching her tricks and she enjoys learning them. I didn't teach them to her to "show them off" to people though.

[huski]

LOL!

I think that's nice work. He's a bit slow to sit and in other places, but I would love to watch a dog that happy in the ring

Ptolomy and Bedazzled always have beautiful heelwork, if they pop in, hopefully they will share a video

I like "happy". I don't like 'obsessed'. Maybe that's how the working dog folk like it but in the video you posted, the dog is actually looking back over its shoulders for most of the heel work.

Imagine trying to walk like that on uneven ground. Imagine doing it for 20 minutes. It's just not natural. A dog can cue off more than the handers eyes!!!

Keeping in mind though that the dog in the vid I posted would be a very high drive WL dog who would not easily tire, and would have more drive than the average person would know what to do with. I couldn't get that level with my dog because she's just not high enough in drive. But it wouldn't take much to get that level of 'obsession' with a dog who is naturally so high drive.

[PAX]

hmm.. after watching this , I can understand why people see obedience trained dogs as 'robots'.

It certainly is not anything I would be interested in ..I do not find it attractive , or showing off a dog's cleverness (apologies)

I think it's brilliant, would love to be as good a trainer as IB.

Don't have to worry about seeing dogs like that here.

[RubyStar]

PF do you have a video example of what you class as nice heelwork? Just so I can see what you prefer to see.

ETA: I have a few Aussie examples I'd love to share but I don't want to post them without permission I've not had anyone ping me for crowding in the ring yet in mock trials or the real deal (though we are just starting out) and I like my dog quite close.

Was just on Utube looking for one.

I like the figure 8 in

That starts at the 2 minute mark in this. The dog is focussed but there is clear daylight between dog and handler.

I much prefer the heelwork posted in this video than that of some working line type dogs you see wrapping around the leg. It's happy, it's prancy, it's attentive, but it's not crowding the handler! Beautiful dog.

Edited September 28, 2010 by RubyStar

[OSoSwift]

I teach some tricks, it is usually something the dog has a natural inclination for. I use them so they have fun, can be done in crap weather in the lounge room.

I just like my dog to have fun learning. To me learning how to learn is the important thing, not necessarily the exercise they are being taught.

I do it because they enjoy it, I enjoy it and we have fun together, quite often it has me in fits of giggles!

I do not do quite as many with the two I have now as when I had my Dobe. That is because I only had one dog and no kids so had much more time on my hands.

I don't expect everyone to appreciate what I do, I don't expect everyone else to enjoy training like I do. Each to their own. We do it because we like it.

[OSoSwift]

My dog naturally offers me front end up and high front leg action in obedience. He doesn't do it at any other time and gaits normally when on a show lead.

His weight is back and his front is elevated when he heels, I didn't train him like that he just does it. My bitch doesn't as she does not move that way naturally.

Oh and we have no issues what so ever with our left about turns

[Staranais]

My dog naturally offers me front end up and high front leg action in obedience. He doesn't do it at any other time and gaits normally when on a show lead.

His weight is back and his front is elevated when he heels, I didn't train him like that he just does it. My bitch doesn't as she does not move that way naturally.

Oh and we have no issues what so ever with our left about turns

Us too.

It just depends where and what discipline you compete in, I think. In NZKC obedience, they want close heeling - as my instructor told me once, in NZKC competition obedience the judge does not want to see daylight between you and the dog. The schutzhund folks I have seen have a slightly looser style of heeling, but they still like the focus and prance. And working trials & ANKC appear to have a very loose style of heeling.

I wonder if it is the more competitive disciplines that drive the tighter/closer heeling styles? For example, if you showed up at a NZKC obedience trial here with heelwork in the video Poodlefan posted, you'd never win - and why else would you do NZKC obedience, there are no prizes for second place, we don't have a thing as simply qualifying. Whereas you will see much looser heeling in the working trials here, where you don't need to come first to qualify for a title. I don't think that's a coincidence.

The tight style of heeling is impractical in real life, it is clearly more of a trick, but then again many obedience exercises are. And I suppose if you drilled the dog for hours in an attention heel it could strain her neck, but we rarely do more than a few minutes at a time. Doing many obedience exercises for 20 minutes could be uncomfortable - I can't imagine my dog liking a 20 minute stand for exam, or liking presenting a dumbbell for 20 minutes, so we just do those things for a few minutes at time also.

[Kavik]

This one would certainly get pinged in ANKC obedience but gets 96 in Schutzhund (scores shown in video)